Buying, building, want to know how to and if I can...

[Dodgewannabe]

I am looking to buy a 1969 Dodge Charger as a project. Very new to the idea. Only been looking for about a year. I would like any suggestions for a way to build a car for driving... Nothing fancy, nothing extreme. Don't need numbers matching. Preffer manual. I am curious if it is a good idea to have a 5-speed in it, or even possible. I was thinking a 440 or hemi! Don't mind doing work. Don't mind spending alot of time. Just looking for a place to start. I found a running 69 with light rust fixed, primed, with a 318/AT. Thinking about buying it and making it manual and fixing everything else asking $12500... good idea or bad?

[Mike DC]

Welcome to the site.


A lot of the basics about getting into the Charger hobby aren't that different from the old Ford & Chevy hobby.  The other brands usually have books & maganzine articles catered to the beginner more than Mopars, so give the other brands' reading materials a look.  The specifics of the cars are different but the overall issues are often very similar.


When it comes to modern upgrades on these cars, just about anything mechanical has usually been done by somebody out there somewhere.  Modern brakes, fuel injection, shocks, sway bars, 5-spd and 6-spd transmission retrofits, whole drivetrain retrofits, etc.  Old car guys are much slower to mess with modern electronics as a whole, but we're not afraid to try stuffing any hot new V8 drivetrain into some older bodystyle that was never intended for it.  Most of that list that I just rattled off above is already being sold as kits.



What you WILL find to be frustrating about this hobby is the stuff that you would've expected to be easy. 

Getting the car rustproofed for real.  Getting the weatherstripping to seal right.  The rattles and the interior sound noise that you can't get rid of.  The original electrical wiring is usually hopeless by now.  The chrome trim needs several thousand bucks worth or refinishing (and it looks really bad when you only do half of it).    The original radiator/cooling system runs too hot because of modern gas even when the motor isn't modified at all.  The list goes on and on. 

These cars are 40-year-old consumer products.  The manufacturing tolerances weren't what they are today.  The general concern for safety and idiot-proofing was not there.

And most of all, THE FACTORIES DIDN'T ORIGINALLY EXPECT THESE CARS TO LAST MORE THAN 3-5 YEARS.    Detroit assumed a 1969 model car would be raggedy junk in the scrapyard by the early or mid-1970s.  Maybe 50-70,000 miles on the clock.  Resale value was not part of the conversation in those days.  A lot of the problems with these cars are not a matter of fixing something broken, but rather inherent problems with their original construction.  (This is why there is such a trend of "resto-mods" these days where you take the old bodystyle and cram a lot of newer hardware into it.  It tends to make a better street car than a stock-restored original ones.)


------------------------------------------------------------


The best thing you can do?

Buy the best-shape body you can find to begin with, don't get too concerned with what is original (even just in appearance), and expect to focus on making the car functional instead of fast.  These things already feel very primitive-go-kart fast, and I mean that in the best way. 

And a $30,000 muscle car like a Dodge Charger is liable to get more attention in public than a brand new $300,000 Ferarri.  Literally.  This frustrates the hell out of modern sports car guys, but it's the truth. 

[SFRT]

I just did mine in the last 10 months. complete mechanical rebuild top to bottom.

start at the bottom. do ALL and I mean ALL the 'boring stuff no one ever sees' first and do it right: SUSPENSION.Brkes, E-brake. do all of that first. get a new gas tank run new fuel lines. re-do every bit of it. buy the good stuff.

get a 26" radiator and have it professional recored, run a 7 blade fan with a clutch. My 440 can idle in traffic for hours and never overheats.

GET ALL NEW WIRING HARNESSES. its not that expensive, and it will solve a million problems. run an  MSD ignition system. DO IT. you will be oh so very happy.

look up my threads you will see a 'noob' hands on realistic build we did ourselves,on jackstands, end result my car runs insanely great at all speeds and is now my daily driver.

if you want to do a 'real resto'...I have no advice. resto dudes would think my car sucks.

[1969chargerrtse]

Welcome to the site.


A lot of the basics about getting into the Charger hobby aren't that different from the old Ford & Chevy hobby.  The other brands usually have books & maganzine articles catered to the beginner more than Mopars, so give the other brands' reading materials a look.  The specifics of the cars are different but the overall issues are often very similar.


When it comes to modern upgrades on these cars, just about anything mechanical has usually been done by somebody out there somewhere.  Modern brakes, fuel injection, shocks, sway bars, 5-spd and 6-spd transmission retrofits, whole drivetrain retrofits, etc.  Old car guys are much slower to mess with modern electronics as a whole, but we're not afraid to try stuffing any hot new V8 drivetrain into some older bodystyle that was never intended for it.  Most of that list that I just rattled off above is already being sold as kits.



What you WILL find to be frustrating about this hobby is the stuff that you would've expected to be easy. 

Getting the car rustproofed for real.  Getting the weatherstripping to seal right.  The rattles and the interior sound noise that you can't get rid of.  The original electrical wiring is usually hopeless by now.  The chrome trim needs several thousand bucks worth or refinishing (and it looks really bad when you only do half of it).    The original radiator/cooling system runs too hot because of modern gas even when the motor isn't modified at all.  The list goes on and on. 

These cars are 40-year-old consumer products.  The manufacturing tolerances weren't what they are today.  The general concern for safety and idiot-proofing was not there.

And most of all, THE FACTORIES DIDN'T ORIGINALLY EXPECT THESE CARS TO LAST MORE THAN 3-5 YEARS.    Detroit assumed a 1969 model car would be raggedy junk in the scrapyard by the early or mid-1970s.  Maybe 50-70,000 miles on the clock.  Resale value was not part of the conversation in those days.  A lot of the problems with these cars are not a matter of fixing something broken, but rather inherent problems with their original construction.  (This is why there is such a trend of "resto-mods" these days where you take the old bodystyle and cram a lot of newer hardware into it.  It tends to make a better street car than a stock-restored original ones.)


------------------------------------------------------------


The best thing you can do?

Buy the best-shape body you can find to begin with, don't get too concerned with what is original (even just in appearance), and expect to focus on making the car functional instead of fast.  These things already feel very primitive-go-kart fast, and I mean that in the best way. 

And a $30,000 muscle car like a Dodge Charger is liable to get more attention in public than a brand new $300,000 Ferarri.  Literally.  This frustrates the hell out of modern sports car guys, but it's the truth. 

Dang, well said mike.  I love the part about a 30,000 Charger standing out above cars 10 times the price, and it's true.

Welcome to the site, you seem to have great plans ahead of you.  Now go play.  When your done, you'll step back from your work of art and just stare, and go WoW.  I do to mine all the time, like yesterday.  Just walked out to the garage and can't believe I own one of these. 

[dkn1997]

12,500 seems a little heavy in the current market for a 318 car in primer.  Even assuming that the rust was repaired correctly and you don't have to re-do it.  you would have at least 5-8 grand in it for decent paint. 

for 15-20, right now, you could probably get a decent non r/t charger with a 383.  I say right now because I was struggling to find completed auctions on ebay where the cars actually sold for the asking price in the 20K range.  I found 1 or 2, but not nearly as many as I thought.

Numbers matching 383 car, looks pretty nice too for under 20K

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1968-dodge-charger_W0QQitemZ200280556623QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item200280556623&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318

interesting 68 project that already has a 5spd TKO in it, body pretty good too and a 440, only 12,300

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1968-Dodge-Charger-SE-HP-440-Tremec-TKO-5-spd-8-3-4_W0QQitemZ320319569573QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item320319569573&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1308

[Chatt69chgr]

The good thing you have going for you is all the nice items that have been repoped in the last three or four years.  I bought my car about 4 years ago starting just about where you are.  There was a lot of stuff that I never figured that I would be able to get.  But it has now appeared.  You will have to decide if you want to get your car running and just drive it for a while (if this is possible) or you want to buy a body and start accumulating parts.  You have to be real patient to follow the second route.  You might get worn down after a while and never finish your project.  Depends on how dedicated you are.  Of course, your job and family situation could cause you to have to sell your project too.  I have an idea that all these nice reproduction parts that are available right now will not be available forever.  If you really want one of these cars, I would buy the best body I could find that is pretty well intact and then make a list of everything you need to buy.  Then buy the items you think may disappear or are real hard to get first.  I wouldn't worry so much about drivetrain parts as these can be found.  If you were willing to settle for a automatic, you could pull the engine and transmission out of a C body and use it.  The rear end could be used too by cutting it down if you couldn't find one for a B-body somewhere (I'am talking about a 8-3/4 rear end----small block cars came with 8-1/4 that you would want to replace if you went big block).  Some parts are very hard to come by even now.  Like a lot of the parts on the front grill assembly.  But you can even buy repop seat belts for these cars now and I never thought I would see these.  If you are not in a big hurry, you can patiently wait for good deals and sales to buy the needed parts.  Whatever you do, good luck.  Always nice to see a enthusiast save another 2nd gen charger.

[Mike DC]

And, about daily driving these things:

Basically, like with any old car, the weather is the factor.  In good weather you'll be willing to drive them a lot.  In bad weather you won't want to drive them much. 



Spending $10K on rust problems tends to make you want to avoid more unnecessary water exposure to the car when you're finished.  The rougher tolerances on these things tend to make them more rust-prone even with fresh paint & undercoating.  You have to REALLY make it a mission to get one of these old cars as tight & sealed as a cheap modern Toyota 4-banger.

And even when restored pretty well, these cars are generally less forgiving in a wet-road slide than a modern sports car.  You can drive your finished Charger more carefully than average, but you can't stop the other thousand cars you pass every day from driving like drunken idiots.  Wet weather = several times more wrecks than average. 

[dkn1997]

........  You can drive your finished Charger more carefully than average, but you can't stop the other thousand cars you pass every day from driving like drunken idiots.  Wet weather = several times more wrecks than average. 

I can attest to that...even in dry weather

[gtx6970]

if your not worried about matchings numbers,

Buy as clean and rust free body as you can possibily afford then go from there