trouble finding 1st gear (A833 4-speed)

[CB]

When driving around in my 4-speed it is hard to find 1st gear. It works easier when you first put it in 2nd then in 1st. This can't be 'they way it is', right?
The mechanic adjusted the clutch and told me the clutch and trans are fine.
Get used to it was his answer. He must be a A/T driver if he says this, no?
Any ideas?
CB

[Ghoste]

Don't know how bad it is with yours but it is a condition I've experienced before. 

[acelondon]

My charger is a damn 727, i wish i had an 833, but my Saturn is a 5speed manual, and its the same way. 2nd then 1st is easy, but u cant go into first without a fight if your moving at all.

even when stopped sometimes i have to do 2 then 1 anyway. i just figured it was a crappy trans.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

CB,
Just to clarify, are you talking about downshifting? And if so, at what speed are you trying to grab first? Or are you talking about trying to shift into first after you come to a stop?

[skip68]

Both.  I seem to have better luck with it when I drove it than Christian did.  But, it is hard to get it in 1st sometimes even after you come to a stop.  I'd let out the clutch in nuetral and then push it back in to get into 1st and it works. 

[CB]

well downshifting into first gear isn't that hard. I am not used to it tho since 1st is a short gear normally.
When you come to a complete stop it is hard to get her in 1st.

Now Chuck , he knows how 'to play a stick' obviously 

[skip68]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

You guys REALLY need to give it a rest! 

[bull]

What kind of shifter?

[Ghoste]

Not that it changes or helps with any of this, but from the number of cars I drive in a year with standard transmissions (it would likely run over several dozen), there are a surpising number that have to be put into reverse before you can get them in 1st.  I think it's all just how things line up when they stop.

[Sublime/Sixpack]

I haven't had a problem with shifting into first when stopped, with engine running.  Or even downshifting into first from a reasonable speed for that matter.

Not sure why your mechanic would think that a transmission that is difficult to get into first gear is okay.

[skip68]

Now that I think about it more,  I did think it was in 1st but it would be in 3rd.    I wonder if it needs adjustment or grease. ?    Bull, he's got the Hurst shifter.  Like I told CB, I've never driven a 4spd Charger so I don't know how they are supposed to shift.   

[62 Max]

If your synchronizers are in good condition and the linkage is adjusted properly,you shouldn't have a problem!

[Go Hogs Go]

I agree. If your your syncro's are good and linkages are adjusted right it should shift easy 90% off the time. Mine usually shifts easy. Since it's started getting cold it will balk going into second every now and then until I get some heat in the trans.

[CB]

So the synchros could be way off then...

CB

[lisiecki1]

+1 on syncros.....dad's 67 gtx 426/hurst does the same thing going into first....it's not that big a deal as long as your trans isn't making any odd noises.....it's probably just time for a rebuild, however, dads has been this way for years and still takes the HEMI punishment with no complaints....just my

[Dans 68]

For what its worth, my '68 occasionally has difficulty going into 1st gear from a complete stop. I attribute that to the very sloppy Inland shifter. Now, I have not adjusted the linkage since I picked up the car, so it may simply be an adjustment issue with the linkages (but I have also stuck the tranny when quick shifting from 2nd to 3rd, and had to manually move the linkages to get gears again). I would re-do the linkage adjustment on your Hurst shifter, and lube up all the contact points. That should solve your ever shifting problem. 

Dan

[Supercharged Riot]

I had the same problems (plus more issues.)

Nice inputs. I hope it helps me with my problem

[EccentricMagpies]

... Since it's started getting cold it will balk going into second every now and then until I get some heat in the trans.

I am noticing this same behaviour.  I just had the clutch replaced since the throwout was going.  2nd gear seemed to always have some slight issues but now that everything around it is seemingly fixed, this naturally stand out more.
I literally have to skip 2nd completely until I drive, say 5 miles, then it seems that 2nd suddenly starts working.  At times, it even seems hard to pull the shifter out of first when I first start out.

synchronizer issues?  If so, get it fixed now, or will it only be an annoyance until I get around to it?
thanks!

[red79]

yep, sounds like a standard synchro issue--my first thought would be a warping clutch, but since you got that replaced and you still have a problem, looks like a tranny rebuild is in your near future

[62 Max]

And while on the subject of synchronizers,one of the biggest problems is riding around with your hand laying on the shifter handle.Puts unnecessary pressure on the synchronizers through the linkage.

[EccentricMagpies]

...one of the biggest problems is riding around with your hand laying on the shifter handle...

... and here, all along, I was doing this to reduce the rattle. 
leason learned.  Thanks for the info.

[matrout76]

What fluid are you running in your transmission?

How new is it?

Does it seem worse after driving a while and the fluid gets warm?

[EccentricMagpies]

What fluid are you running in your transmission?

How new is it?

Does it seem worse after driving a while and the fluid gets warm?

Yes, fluid was replaced after the clutch install.  Shifting becomes easier, not harder, after the fluid has warmed up.  Seriously, it's like trying to shift w/o the clutch engaged when it's cold.  (2nd gear only)
To explain it better, it either feels like hitting a wall or it will actually grind the gears slightly, so I stay away from 2nd until I have a good 5 miles in.

I feel the comments here have been 'spot on'.  Especially from 'red79'.  The tailshaft needed a new seal and bearing as well.  This helped in the overall vibrations I had been seeing.   So, I suspect this winter I'll have to pull it and have it rebuilt.  Just trying to prolong that at least until mid Oct.

[TylerCharger69]

I was going to suggest synchros as well   

[Charger-Bodie]

What fluid are you running in your transmission?

How new is it?

Does it seem worse after driving a while and the fluid gets warm?

Yes, fluid was replaced after the clutch install.  Shifting becomes easier, not harder, after the fluid has warmed up.  Seriously, it's like trying to shift w/o the clutch engaged when it's cold.  (2nd gear only)
To explain it better, it either feels like hitting a wall or it will actually grind the gears slightly, so I stay away from 2nd until I have a good 5 miles in.

I feel the comments here have been 'spot on'.  Especially from 'red79'.  The tailshaft needed a new seal and bearing as well.  This helped in the overall vibrations I had been seeing.   So, I suspect this winter I'll have to pull it and have it rebuilt.  Just trying to prolong that at least until mid Oct.

What fluid did you put in it?

[c00nhunterjoe]

i agree with syncros but not with laying your hand on the shifter, if  your stops are adjusted right then it wont matter

[Charger-Bodie]

i agree with syncros but not with laying your hand on the shifter, if  your stops are adjusted right then it wont matter

That's if you have a competition plus shifter,and most dont.

[62 Max]

i agree with syncros but not with laying your hand on the shifter, if  your stops are adjusted right then it wont matter

That's if you have a competition plus shifter,and most dont.

You beat me to it!

[CB]

well I used a good spray of WD40 and it did the trick, it loosend up the shifter.
Much better shifting but still needs an overhaul.

[EccentricMagpies]

[/quote]

What fluid did you put in it?
[/quote]

I didn't ask but I'll find out.

[EccentricMagpies]

sorry...took a while finding that slip... found it in the trunk.


80/90 was put in...

[EccentricMagpies]

What fluid are you running in your transmission?

How new is it?

Does it seem worse after driving a while and the fluid gets warm?

Yes, fluid was replaced after the clutch install.  Shifting becomes easier, not harder, after the fluid has warmed up.  Seriously, it's like trying to shift w/o the clutch engaged when it's cold.  (2nd gear only)
To explain it better, it either feels like hitting a wall or it will actually grind the gears slightly, so I stay away from 2nd until I have a good 5 miles in.

I feel the comments here have been 'spot on'.  Especially from 'red79'.  The tailshaft needed a new seal and bearing as well.  This helped in the overall vibrations I had been seeing.   So, I suspect this winter I'll have to pull it and have it rebuilt.  Just trying to prolong that at least until mid Oct.

What fluid did you put in it?

A friend told me that I should be running regular transmission oil.  Automatic oil.  Any truth to that or is the 80/90 oil what I want/need?

thanks,
John

[Charger-Bodie]

80/90 is what you should have in there. Anything thinner will multply the problem in my experience.

[EccentricMagpies]

80/90 is what you should have in there. Anything thinner will multply the problem in my experience.

Well that part is good to know... that just leaves me with the rebuilding part I guess.

[dstryr]

I rebuilt mine summer of '09 due to a broken shift fork and it was very hard to downshift from 2nd to 1st as well.  Synchros were badly worn.  If you are mechanically inclined and have a few tools you can do this yourself.  The resto guide suggests using a press to push out the countershafts but had a little help and we used a long brass drift and hammer to gently tap them out.   Also a good set of lock ring pliers is a must.   

[watt340]

With the engine off, can you shift the transmission down into 1st easily? If so, then  I would suggest that your input shaft is spinning all the time while the engine is running which could be a bellhousing to crankshaft alignment issue. The factory service manual suggests .005" runout or less.
If you originally had synthetic gear lube in there it will create problems like you describe. Even after changing to 80/90, you won't get the synthetic off of the areas where the stop ring (syncronizer ring in GM terms) rides on the input shaft.
Two other issues could be the input shaft dog teeth are rounded, or possibly the stop ring  dog teeth are rounded.

[EccentricMagpies]

With the engine off, can you shift the transmission down into 1st easily?

Actually.. it shifts without any trouble if the car is running and I'm at a complete stop.  I can go through all gears as if there is not a problem.

The only problem is, when the car is cold (less than ~5 miles driven)
   - if I'm starting off in first, second just isn't an option, so I automatically go to third with no problems.  If I have to downshift, second gear is not an option here (until the miles > ~5)... so it's back to first.

[EccentricMagpies]

With the engine off, can you shift the transmission down into 1st easily? If so, then  I would suggest that your input shaft is spinning all the time while the engine is running which could be a bellhousing to crankshaft alignment issue. The factory service manual suggests .005" runout or less.
If you originally had synthetic gear lube in there it will create problems like you describe. Even after changing to 80/90, you won't get the synthetic off of the areas where the stop ring (syncronizer ring in GM terms) rides on the input shaft.
Two other issues could be the input shaft dog teeth are rounded, or possibly the stop ring  dog teeth are rounded.

I'm sorry.. i probably should not have 'hi-jacked' this thread.  It seemed to fit my symptoms I was seeing in my trans. 
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all of the responces.  I will probably be considering a rebuild next spring.
I'll try to only 'refer' to postings and start a fresh thread with my issues next time.

Thanks again,
John