Looking to buy a General Lee? STAY AWAY FROM BK AUTO!! It's almost over!!!

[SFRT]

hey stuart do you want some melted butter?

[hemi68charger]

Has anyone been to our shop and seen what we do?

I have............... Man, $70K, that's a whole lot of money for something in that condition. My question would be did the buyer know that car was that bad off to begin with? I mean if someone knew, they would have maybe made another decision on whether to use THAT particular shell or something else. Someone gets what they can afford is definitely the case.. Now, the question is; how much is someone charging per hour and is the work and end-product reflective of that?

I'm not here to cast stones... I just see in the pictures a car that was majorly patched together with superficial beauty....... As far as judging what someone can do, I judge them by all the facts... Having been burned majorly by a Houston local, I'm very perceptive to these things................

Good luck to all and hope everything turns out ok with the re-restoration recreation General Lee jb666

Troy

[moparstuart]

hey stuart do you want some melted butter?

salt to please    thanks

[SFRT]

ok so we have heard from 666 and BK...has Sickdawg had anything to say?

[jb666]

Very interesting..


The bottom line is there were several safety issues that could have caused this car to fail, causing bodily injury for me or my passengers. I don't care if someone paid $1 for a brake job or $10,000 for the same job, the car should still leave the shop safe and road-worth. "cheap" or not.  My friends have dealt with MANY cheap clients in their time, but that doesn't mean they release that person's car KNOWING it could fall apart. It means you do it right and deal with the $$ issues after the fact.  How can you sleep at night knowing you shipped a car that could have dumped it's gas tank at any given moment? How about the front end that was about to fall out of the car? And that's just a tip of the iceburg.

It all comes down to SAFETY, not quality. Either you care, or you don't, and clearly, YOU DO NOT.

You bring up a few very interesting points, one of which is that the car was "rotisserie blasted ". Why would you go through all of this and sugar coat all of the rot the car had? If you're going to go through the trouble of putting a car on a rotisserie shouldn't you at least make sure the points you bolt it to the machine are solid?? I have NO CLUE how you hooked the back end of this car up  

So, the $70k I was told was in this car is including the engine, that still leaves $50k to work on a car and get it up to snuff.. While this won't make the car win any World Of Wheels awards, this certainly should make it SAFE (there's that word again).

My only gripe here is that it appears you punished Brian for being cheap, which is an absolute joke. The guy did the best with what he had to work with. I'm not sticking up for him, by any means, but he still came up with a way to pay you $50,000   , shouldn't he at least have received a car that you'd feel comfortable taking your kids for a ride on a Sunday afternoon??

I'm not here to judge. I'm here to show how this car was built. Cutting corners like this is NOT the way I'd want my company to be represented out on the web.

Brian tells me that you were double billing him for certain issues, which in turn he was labeled as "cheap". Is this true? I know if I got a bill for $2500+ for "repro parts" I'd question it too. $2500 buys an awful lot of "repro parts". A $25 trip to the auto parts store? $200+ for a pitman arm that NEEDED TO BE CHANGED??  I've reviewed all of the invoices Brian paid and I couldn't believe some of the things I was reading..

[jb666]

ok so we have heard from 666 and BK...has Sickdawg had anything to say?

You know, I'd like to hear from him too, at this point. All I am is the guy who bought the car from HIM. I'd like him to post his side of the story as well.

I'll shoot him an email now and ask him to step in.

[1BAD68]

I can see the guys point that its a General Lee, its not a restored car, etc..
But how could a reputable "automotive" shop of any kind sell a car that has so many safety issues that it might have exploded and burned down to the ground just sitting there?

[moparstuart]

I'm cheap and live in the midwest where you can get cars restored cheaper labor wise !
I could get two of my cars restore to really really  nice driver quality for 50 k including parts     

[hemi68charger]

I can see the guys point that its a General Lee, its not a restored car, etc..
But how could a reputable "automotive" shop of any kind sell a car that has so many safety issues that it might have exploded and burned down to the ground just sitting there?

For 50 to 70K, there should have been a high quality product. Not a "World of Wheels" car, but a dang nice driver that's solid... Guess I need to get into this business..............  Oh wait,,,, if I did that then tinkering with mine would lose its appeal...................  naaaaaaaa.. I'll just continue to help out.............. 

[skip68]

I'm an Electrician. If I had a customer that was low on cash I WOULD NOT TAPE WIRES TOGETHER AND CALL IT SAFE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY COULD AFFORD.  I MEAN COME ON, SAFETY GOES ON BEFORE CLEAR COAT.    I WOULD DO IT RIGHT OR NOT AT ALL

[The70RT]

15K to blast the car....had mine done for 1,400. I would have said the frame rails and trunk extensions are toast and fix them then see what he had left to spend on the rest because if you don't do that now why bother with looks. If I also tore the frontend down I sure would have bought a front end rebuild kit for 500 instead of painting the turds and putting them back on.....that's where you could be sued when the shit fell off and killed someone. If your business oriented tell your customers that you are doing it right and if you wanna cut corners take it somewhere else because you never know who will get the car next and exploit all the shoddy work. No what the circumstances are because you are setting yourself up for this sooner or later and then have to explain putting a new valance over a rotted crossmember etc.etc.etc.etc

[SFRT]

it would have been just as fast and probably cheaper to grind off the rot on the rails and weld on some good flatstock rather than fiberglass over it.

last time I checked steel stock wasnt that expensive. it might have looked a little weird but it would have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than cosmetically hiding structural failure.

and since we are talking mexicans, in a past life when I ran a construction crew the 'mexicans' always worked harder and better than the lazy-assed white dudes.

I like mexicans.

[charger01]

Why does a rotisserie restored movie car get less attention than a non movie rotisserie car?  Iam not sure I follow why it matters that it is a General lee or not when it comes to a restoration.  I would think for $50,000 or more it damn well better get the same attention.

[1BAD68]

jb666, in your first post you mention numerous things you found wrong with the car and alot of them (guages not working, brakes leaking, steering column loose, etc..) seem like important issues that a seller should mention, just wondering if the guy you bought it from ever pointed out any problems with it?

[jb666]

jb666, in your first post you mention numerous things you found wrong with the car and alot of them (guages not working, brakes leaking, steering column loose, etc..) seem like important issues that a seller should mention, just wondering if the guy you bought it from ever pointed out any problems with it?

No, not one of these issues ever came up. The seller told me all of the gauges had been sent out, restored and refaced. The loose column I didn't discover until I was backing the car off the ramps and the horn would go off when ever I'd move the wheel in either direction. The brakes and front end I didn't notice until I was bringing it to my buddy's shop, where the car was parked in my garage there was a spot of every type of fluid this car holds on the ground, some larger then others. The rear main seal of the tranny was missing and a large thick layer of gasket sealer was in there.. The speedo cable was cross threaded in the trans and leaking like crazy. The dipstick tube wasn't inserted properly and the motor was leaking oil. There was 100% straight (rusty) water in the cooling system, no anti-freeze. The thermostat was rusted shut (I'll post this later, it's nasty). I was told the motor was filled with Royal Purple motor oil. It had conventional 10/40, nothing purple about it.  The saga goes on and on from there...

[Chris G.]

jb666, in your first post you mention numerous things you found wrong with the car and alot of them (guages not working, brakes leaking, steering column loose, etc..) seem like important issues that a seller should mention, just wondering if the guy you bought it from ever pointed out any problems with it?

That's what is confusing to me. You also said you went and picked the car up when you purchased it. The steering wheel had to be something you noticed right away? There's a piece to this puzzle missing. I can't figure out what it is, but it's something. 

[jb666]

jb666, in your first post you mention numerous things you found wrong with the car and alot of them (guages not working, brakes leaking, steering column loose, etc..) seem like important issues that a seller should mention, just wondering if the guy you bought it from ever pointed out any problems with it?

That's what is confusing to me. You also said you went and picked the car up when you purchased it. The steering wheel had to be something you noticed right away? There's a piece to this puzzle missing. I can't figure out what it is, but it's something. 

The only piece of the puzzle that's missing is the fact that I took this car for face value.. We flew down there in the middle of the night with the trailer attached, picked it up early the next morning (in the rain) and left.. There was no test drive, no lift inspection, nothing.. So yeah, that's 100% my fault. I AM THE MISSING LINK  I let my emotions get the best of me and I jumped at this deal. I figured anyone that had $70k into a car and would sell it for 1/2 that KNEW he was losing his shirt and had a Hell of a car in his possession.

[472 R/T SE]

My 472 crate Hemi had to be rebuilt too. I bought it in Feb. 06. If you go to cuda-challenger.com you can read all about it.

Or you can luck out like I have so far.  Mine's a 2nd generation motor.  I've put 3000 or so miles on it and have run down the track 30 or so times.  Zero problems.  I did have a baffle on the pass. side vc come loose.

When the intake & valve covers were changed out my buddy gave it a quick inspection and it all looked good he said.  It'll use a half quart of oil every 300 miles or so, but I have never had a big block Mopar not use just a little oil.

[Go Hogs Go]

If I were you I wouldn't put synthetic motor oil in your Hemi. It doesn't have a high enough zinc content. There is a warning in the engine & tranny discussion board about what can happen to your cam and lifters. Use a heavy duty conventional oil like Rotella 15W-40, or a racing motor oil with a high zinc content. I use Valvoline 20W-50 VR1 race oil in my Hemi. That crate engine will have oil leaking out of everywhere if you use synthetic. I'd only use a synthetic oil in a Hemi if the engine builder recommended it.  

[Drache]

You know allot of people can bitch about how he should have looked at the car closely before picking it up let alone paying for it but in reality this all finally boiled down to one person spending $70,000 on a car that was not only dangerous to drive in, but nowhere worth the $70,000 paid to have it "restored"!

And what the HELL is the difference making a movie car compared to restoring another car? The only difference I see is the rollcage (which wouldnt have held up if the car had rolled), the front grille guard (which was mounted at an angle), and the decals!

Step up to your mistakes BK and be a man in this and admit you guys cut corners!

[skip68]

    So let me get this right.    HLPAG uses Bondo to fill holes,   And with all due respect sir, your company BKAutomotive uses fiberglass on frame rails? ? ?     I do agree that you probably can put out good work just like HLPAG probably can.    BUT, what I see is you can equally put out poor work as they can, and possibly illegal.  This whole fiberglass on bad frames business I think needs some more looking into.  At this point I think it would be a very smart idea for you to speak in private with jb666 and resolve this quickly and quietly.    But that's just my two cents.  This is a hobby for most of us and if someone has something bad to say about me that's OK, I can still feed my kids in the morning.  For you, this is your living "AND" a seed is being planted if you know what I mean.  I like the fact that you came on here and spoke your side. That shows some charactor which is more than I can say about HLPAG or what ever they call themselves.  The internet is a great way to make business and an EQUALLY great way to break business.    Chuck..............

[jb666]

You know allot of people can bitch about how he should have looked at the car closely before picking it up let alone paying for it but in reality this all finally boiled down to one person spending $70,000 on a car that was not only dangerous to drive in, but nowhere worth the $70,000 paid to have it "restored"!

And what the HELL is the difference making a movie car compared to restoring another car? The only difference I see is the rollcage (which wouldnt have held up if the car had rolled), the front grille guard (which was mounted at an angle), and the decals!

Step up to your mistakes BK and be a man in this and admit you guys cut corners!

Thank you.

We can get as off-subject here as we want, but I've already accepted blame for not thoroughly inspecting this vehicle before purchasing it. I'm dealing with that now, IMO.

[0X01B8]

I haven't read the thread, just one or two posts, so forgive me if I miss some of the finer points.

Someone thought I should see whats being said in this thread in case I should want to make an argument. I don't think it is worth getting too involved in whats going on here, so I'll just say this and then leave it be.

Only one or two posts?  You haven't missed the finer points  - you've missed nearly all the points.  Not worth getting involved?  Seems ironic because that's the general consensus about your shop so far.

Has anyone been to our shop and seen what we do? Do you judge by the best someone can do or the worst?

So, you're admitting this is your worst work?

I don't think there is a question that we can do quality work.

That's what the entire thread is about!  Whoops, you didn't read it, sorry, my bad.

The car was rotisserie blasted for gods sake, that's a $15,000 addition to any real restoration.

I had my car blasted for around $1000, but that was 15 years ago and they didn't even have a rotisserie to use.  Oh, wait, that would have made it easier, and, uh, cheaper too.  At $70/hour one guy would spend 5 straight weeks doing that.  Am I missing something?

Parts cost what they cost, and I don't have illegal mexicans doing our work for $5 an hour either. most of our charges are $65 or $70 per hour. That's pretty par across the board with shops like mine. in fact, I tend to be alittle on the cheap side in comparison.

So, at $70/hour you had 14 Mexicans working on this car at one time?  I find that hard to believe.  Seems like they would always be getting in each others way, you know, sparks flying off the welding torches, landing on the next poor bastard, setting him on fire, and so on.  Wait, that's not believable, I'm sorry.  You didn't do much welding, what with all the structural fiberglass and all.

... has a budget of $1500 for metal work. You do the math.

Okay, I'll do the math.  300 Mexicans can spend one hour each on the metal work.  What's your point?

...could make a car for him at $10,000 less than everyone else was paying (because I had some new guys I could let break their teeth among other reasons)...

What do you pay the Toothless labor - $10/hour?

When you get your car done somewhere and the guy makes it work for less, or saves you money, he is making choices to 'not do something', or do something less than perfect, or use a less expensive method, all in order to save you money and help your project get finished. I turn people away all the time because they cant afford it, and they get mad at me like I have done something wrong or insulted them. This job was taken back in '05 after I was phone badgered to death and gave in, then he changed everything without notice. I did the best I could with what HE COULD AFFORD. And it made a great looking car that ran like a raped ape and did everything a car should.

I've put in floors that were meant to be painted and spent thousands of dollars. I have put in floors for another customer for hundreds of dollars that are 100% as structurally sound as the former. Should I tell customer 'B" he is not allowed to have new floors put in his baby unless he spends like crazy and has me paint them as well? I think there is a line, but lets be careful where we draw it. Otherwise, alot of us would find ourselves getting turned away because we cant afford to build Chip Foose rides.

In this case, I regret ever getting sucked into this car. I thought I was doing some guy with a low budget a favor, and in the end the joke was on me, but with what I was given we made one hell of a car and I doubt anyone else could have done better given the same circumstances. I know the story. I know what we did and didn't, and I don't feel bad about one bit.

Thanks for the time,

Well, aside from the apes getting sodomized, I'll give you some credit for your, umm, finer points.  See, I bothered to read your side of the story.

-john

[Old Moparz]

I haven't read the thread, just one or two posts, so forgive me if I miss some of the finer points.

Someone thought I should see whats being said in this thread in case I should want to make an argument. I don't think it is worth getting too involved in whats going on here, so I'll just say this and then leave it be.

Has anyone been to our shop and seen what we do? Do you judge by the best someone can do or the worst? I don't think there is a question that we can do quality work. for over a decade we have built cars for collectors, museums and everything in between from $20,000 up to $250,000. what you can afford, is what you can afford. We have a very good reputation, with only 3 compaints in 10 years, (four now counting this one). Every single one has come down to one thing: a customer who wants more than they can afford.

Point 1) This was not a 'restoration', it is a General Lee. I try to make it as plain as I can that movie cars do not get 'restored'. that's not up to me, its because the majority customers cannot afford it, and I personally would advise against it. It is a completely separate business from our restorations and is done in a completely different way. Movie cars typically sell in the $20-$40k range. Doesn't leave alot of room for restoration.

Point 2) What did we get paid for this car? Lets get out the receipts and put this nonsense to bed. $25,000. $25,000 covered the cost of the car to start with, all of the interior and exterior parts, everything but the driveline, body and standard paintwork. Starts to look alittle skimpy now doesn't it. The car was rotisserie blasted for gods sake, that's a $15,000 addition to any real restoration. the extra money that was spent? over $20,000 was PARTS ALONE. Send me a $20,000 engine, it doesn't get your car sanded. I don't car what you spend on parts, that doesn't pay a dollar of labor.

My meaning is this: Any quality shop can do the same job as another quality shop. there is no magic wand that makes things cheaper, unless the shop works for less. If they can afford it, that's great. Our business is not ran from my house, I have overhead and costs associated with being in the 4th largest city in the country. Parts cost what they cost, and I don't have illegal mexicans doing our work for $5 an hour either. most of our charges are $65 or $70 per hour. That's pretty par across the board with shops like mine. in fact, I tend to be alittle on the cheap side in comparison.

The movie cars are 'cheap' in comparison to anything else, just the way they are as dictated by the market base. They get employees that are less expensive, or new, or whatever it takes to make a car with a small budget. That doesn't mean you try to build a crap car, but it does mean I cant put $25,000 worth of metal work into a car that has a budget of $1500 for metal work. You do the math. You have to make choices on where its most important and where the time spent doesn't the most good for the finished product.

Now, this guy never set out to make a HEMI General, at least not that I was ever told. we talked for a long time back and forth because he wanted the cheapest General Lee I could build. Everyone else told him no. It was later, after I finally agreed that I could make a car for him at $10,000 less than everyone else was paying (because I had some new guys I could let break their teeth among other reasons) and had already started the work that he called to say a HEMI was showing up and would I put that in instead? And it all went to hell from there. He didn't know what he was getting in to, and couldn't afford it. Bottom line. we had already finished his body for the cheap car, there was no way to turn back and redo any of that. I forced him to build a better transmission, reinforce the body where it was still accessable and make what changes could be made to make sure the car wouldn't fall apart, and he fought me every step of the way.

Now, go ahead and judge, that's the fun part of see what someone else does. But at least you have a glimpse of the other side. This is a great target for people to jump at that either don't like businesses like mine or want to carve out a niche for themselves. But what I don't understand is how many of you can really afford to do a real six figure restoration? In real numbers its a very small percentage. When you get your car done somewhere and the guy makes it work for less, or saves you money, he is making choices to 'not do something', or do something less than perfect, or use a less expensive method, all in order to save you money and help your project get finished. I turn people away all the time because they cant afford it, and they get mad at me like I have done something wrong or insulted them. This job was taken back in '05 after I was phone badgered to death and gave in, then he changed everything without notice. I did the best I could with what HE COULD AFFORD. And it made a great looking car that ran like a raped ape and did everything a car should.

I've put in floors that were meant to be painted and spent thousands of dollars. I have put in floors for another customer for hundreds of dollars that are 100% as structurally sound as the former. Should I tell customer 'B" he is not allowed to have new floors put in his baby unless he spends like crazy and has me paint them as well? I think there is a line, but lets be careful where we draw it. Otherwise, alot of us would find ourselves getting turned away because we cant afford to build Chip Foose rides.

In this case, I regret ever getting sucked into this car. I thought I was doing some guy with a low budget a favor, and in the end the joke was on me, but with what I was given we made one hell of a car and I doubt anyone else could have done better given the same circumstances. I know the story. I know what we did and didn't, and I don't feel bad about one bit.

Thanks for the time,

First, I'm quoting the response from BK so it isn't mysteriously "edited" or "deleted" later on.

The sad part about all this is that the current owner's only legal recourse is probably with who he bought the car from. The body shop has nothing to really be concerned about unless the seller decides to follow up against them. It's likely that the seller will not post, or say a word, because he knows damn well he ripped someone off by passing on the rolling mess without saying what was wrong with it. The only positive thing to note is, more people have been warned about the new halpag franchise & the way they turn out expensive pieces of crap they don't have a problem with putting their name on.   

[moparstuart]

not only putting there name on it , but a big plaque !