Looking to buy a General Lee? STAY AWAY FROM BK AUTO!! It's almost over!!!

[skip68]

Like I stated before, I think this business of fiberglass on rotted frame rails needs some more looking into.   And I mean looked into by the laws.  I'm going to do some searching. 

[jb666]

Like I stated before, I think this business of fiberglass on rotted frame rails needs some more looking into.   And I mean looked into by the laws.  I'm going to do some searching. 

I appreciate it, thank you.

In fact, I appreciate the support from everyone here. I know I f'd up here, but why can't they admit that and make this right?? I've offered to put them directly in contact with the shop doing my work. I'll back off completely, and they can work something out.. If they flat out refuse to do that, then they truly DO NOT CARE about the customer after the sale...

[Ghoste]

I think their workmanship proves without a doubt that they don't care about the customer.  As for admitting it, that isn't how criminals work and chances are good, if they stole from sickdawg, they've stolen from a lot of other people too.  Admitting it to one means a collapse of their entire scam.

[Hemidoug]

Their "custom subframe connectors" were an absolute joke. They may as well have used exhaust tubing.. The welds on the end were something your 10 year old son could do with a blindfold on.

-thats actually funny. Anyone who knows anything about subframes or mopars knows that these are the best subframes you can buy or build. they were welded by a frame and structureal designer/fabricator that has built things for indy cars. they were correct thick wall tube and correctly welded. Since the major welding was done in this car and it was off the twirler it was made to be a bolt-on connector. Just to be safe, it was welded on by the installer, so I can see it being rough welds where it attatched to the car, but thats because it was already bolted and the welding didnt need to be perfect.

No...THESE are the best subframes you can build.....

I think there are 2 lessons that can be learned here....

1st lesson is DON'T EVER do work for someone who you would feel would damage your reputation...build a thousand bridges and you're a bridge builder...have one collapse and it doesn't matter how well the 999 others are built....Just my   Not trying to bust your balls....

2nd lesson is BUYER BEWARE! Make sure you shop around before dropping the coin....I know very well from past experience that you need to buy with your HEAD, not your heart.....

Now...from my 30 plus years of building Muscle cars.....Mopar in particular.....

1. shop...I just had a 65 Plymouth stripped and sandblasted for 600.00. Yes that's right 600.00. If I came to you and asked for my car to be blasted and you told me 15,000. buck I would have laughed at you...sorry dude, that's so far off it's on the next planet.

2. buyer.....ALWAYS inspect the KNOWN rust areas on a car very carefully...if you don't know what they are then find out and for God's sake ALWAYS take someone knowledgeable with you.....You NEED a second opinion.....

I paid 300.00 bucks for those frame ties.....custom made, welded on the car and painted......complete with custom driveshaft loop...

[Ghoste]

How often do you eat off the bottom of that thing Doug?

[68charger383]

Bottomline, BK put his badge on the car to certify it was restored by him and his shop. To me, that represents what you want people to think of your work and reputation.

Come on BK, for $50K the car should be more than it is in these pictures. In addition, you do this for a living, you should be an expert, so the thing that takes me three hours to get done, you and your shop should be able to get it done in 1/2 hour (I'm slow and lack skills) so that $50K should have gone even further.

+ you do this for a living, why are you buying rusted hulls for the blank canvass. Don't forget, we all kinda know the values of these cars and $20K for the rusted hull depicted in these pics seems like a lot of money spent on a bad hull. Part of the job would be to find a nice shell to start your build from.....

As stated, I think the buyer from BK and seller to 666 needs to clarify what the car looked like when he got it!

[jb666]

How often do you eat off the bottom of that thing Doug?

SERIOUSLY!! That is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

And , for the record, it's just like the rail setup on mine (with the exception of the painted finish). THAT is support!!!  

[Chris G.]

If they flat out refuse to do that, then they truly DO NOT CARE about the customer after the sale...

I truly feel bad for you and your situation, and I am completely blown away by the replies from the resto shop. However, you technically are not the "customer" in this situation. The guy you bought the car from is the person who wrote the check and approved the work. At this point the resto shop (if you want to call it that) can claim that everything you are bringing to the table was done after it left their shop. Yes, it sucks, and hopefully I am wrong and something can be done about it.

I still think the previous owner had to of known about these problems. It's cool to see you take responsibility about not checking the car out, but the seller could have been a little more honest about it. IMO, I think you are giving the guy you bought the car from way more leniency then he deserves.

[SFRT]

is that your track car? NICE connectors man.

[jb666]

Bottomline, BK put his badge on the car to certify it was restored by him and his shop. To me, that represents what you want people to think of your work and reputation.

Come on BK, for $50K the car should be more than it is in these pictures. In addition, you do this for a living, you should be an expert, so the thing that takes me three hours to get done, you and your shop should be able to get it done in 1/2 hour (I'm slow and lack skills) so that $50K should have gone even further.

+ you do this for a living, why are you buying rusted hulls for the blank canvass, especially at $20K for the rusted hull. Part of the job would be to find a nice shell to start your build from.....

As stated, I think the buyer from BK and seller to 666 needs to clarify what the car looked like when he got it!

This is all I have to go by.. The beginning of the $15k rotisserie special.

[SFRT]

doesnt ART offer a complete body in white for right around 15K?

[jb666]

If they flat out refuse to do that, then they truly DO NOT CARE about the customer after the sale...

I truly feel bad for you and your situation, and I am completely blown away by the replies from the resto shop. However, you technically are not the "customer" in this situation. The guy you bought the car from is the person who wrote the check and approved the work. At this point the resto shop (if you want to call it that) can claim that everything you are bringing to the table was done after it left their shop. Yes, it sucks, and hopefully I am wrong and something can be done about it.

I still think the previous owner had to of known about these problems. It's cool to see you take responsibility about not checking the car out, but the seller could have been a little more honest about it. IMO, I think you are giving the guy you bought the car from way more leniency then he deserves.

I'm just trying to be fair here and go right to the source. Sure, things could have been brought to the surface. I was told in an email that the car has "small imperfections" , but that it was an "overall very solid and show worthy car".  I guess somewhere there's a show where midget blind trolls are walking around.. Then again, even they can feel...

[Hemidoug]

How often do you eat off the bottom of that thing Doug?

Dude...that's how it looks after about 20,000 street miles...and for the record I blasted and painted that myself....on a home made jig, outside in a backyard on the hottest day in summer...(end of July)....So I KNOW how much work is needed......

[Ghoste]

TWENTY THOUSAND!!??   I figured it was after driving but I had no idea.  That is the definition of driven and sanitary.  Congratulations to you sir!

[jb666]

I'm taking some advice here and have a web page partially set up. I'll build a small video this week/weekend that can be linked on YouTube and who knows, I just might have to recruit some more help spreading this around...  

[The70RT]

Too bad we all couldn't see the invoice. I don't see much on the car that is new. Interior and some brake parts. You said the suspension was shot so no money there. As far as sheet metal any old hood is good. I just wonder where all the new parts come into play? I noticed on some threads back when Brian was selling the car he talked about HLPG and never said anything GOOD or BAD about BK but suggested a couple of other resto shops though? Yeah he had to know even if he didn't work on cars.

[jb666]

Too bad we all couldn't see the invoice. I don't see much on the car that is new. Interior and some brake parts. You said the suspension was shot so no money there. As far as sheet metal any old hood is good. I just wonder where all the new parts come into play? I noticed on some threads back when Brian was selling the car he talked about LPG and never said anything GOOD or BAD about BK but suggested a couple of other resto shops though? Yeah he had to know even if he didn't work on cars.

The hood is original. It had rust under the hood and they painted right over it.. The front fenders are original. They've got small rot holes under the hood in the corners (up front). It's all coming off.

PM sent 

[SFRT]

question:

who gained the most from this entire chain of events?

[jb666]

question:

who gained the most from this entire chain of events?

BK, for sure.. The guy I bought it from lost his shirt when I bought it from him. I lost my pants (and my virginity) when I bought it from him... It's a vicious cycle.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

I have tried to stay neutral in this but this is the biggest crock of shit I have heard in a long time.....I cant believe you actually typed this without shorting out your keyboard from all the shit spewing out of your fingertips

Let's look at this picture.. All looks good, right?? WRONG. The steering column had no guts and swiveled around about 6" in a circle. It wasn't bolted to the firewall and had one bolt barely holding it under the dash. The center console has nothing securing it to the floor. The shifter isn't bolted down and there's no wires running to the lights in the console.. In fact, there are no interior lights PERIOD. They buried the dome light when they did the headliner..

-I know it didnt leave that way. the column was bolted down. I cant say that the column was in mint shape, it was whatever came with the car, but it was bolted in.And no, we don't install interior lights in the base-models. And the dome light in a general lee is a bad idea. the heat radiates off the rollbar and makes for a very hot rollbar, and at best melts the padding, at worst burns someone. In almost all cases, it melts the new lens. We havent put domelights in those for 8 years. And unless the car was a console shift, I don't run wiring for the console lights, they are there fr looks only on base-models.

Please put the crack pipe down...drugs are bad

[69bronzeT5]

Domelights dont get that hot. If they dont "catch the headliner on fire" then they sure in hell wont make the rollbar really hot.

[jb666]

I have tried to stay neutral in this but this is the biggest crock of shit I have heard in a long time.....I cant believe you actually typed this without shorting out your keyboard from all the shit spewing out of your fingertips

Let's look at this picture.. All looks good, right?? WRONG. The steering column had no guts and swiveled around about 6" in a circle. It wasn't bolted to the firewall and had one bolt barely holding it under the dash. The center console has nothing securing it to the floor. The shifter isn't bolted down and there's no wires running to the lights in the console.. In fact, there are no interior lights PERIOD. They buried the dome light when they did the headliner..

-I know it didnt leave that way. the column was bolted down. I cant say that the column was in mint shape, it was whatever came with the car, but it was bolted in.And no, we don't install interior lights in the base-models. And the dome light in a general lee is a bad idea. the heat radiates off the rollbar and makes for a very hot rollbar, and at best melts the padding, at worst burns someone. In almost all cases, it melts the new lens. We havent put domelights in those for 8 years. And unless the car was a console shift, I don't run wiring for the console lights, they are there fr looks only on base-models.

Please put the crack pipe down...drugs are bad

Yes, those dome lights can be used as a quick tanning device.. Boy do those things give off some mega heat

[Drache]

Granted leave your dome light on for a couple hours and try to touch it! Sure they are hot but only if they are LEFT ON for hours upon hours but they certainly don't throw enough heat to heat up a rollbar!

If I didn't know any better I'd almost believe some 14 year old kid (no offense to the youngins on the forums) who didn't know anything about cars wrote this! BK's replies remind me of fighting over firearms with a 12 year old! He knew EVERYTHING because his video games taught him! Finally I handed him my .308 Norma Magnum and told him to take a shot... he hasn't picked up a gun since! Damn that was one NASTY bruise....

As for the website if you need help building one let me know!

[Troy]

doesnt ART offer a complete body in white for right around 15K?

That would be US Car Tool. The new price is $17,500 I believe.

If the rear frame rails are not structural then why tie the subframe connectors (and torque boxes) to them? I've seen plenty of rusty ones (I'm in Ohio) and I can honestly say that a car will hold up with rusty trunk pans, trunk extensions, and quarters as long as the rails and cross members are good but the whole thing collapses if the rails are shot and all those other pieces are still ok. It's a unibody car - everything is dependent on everything else.

I understand the problems with dealing with discrepancies between the customer's expectations and budget. There's a point where you just have to cut your losses rather than sticking your name on a product. At the bare minimum this point is reached when safety is compromised. Here are some cost juggling ideas that may have helped:
* Dynamat is expensive so perhaps that step could have been skipped in favor of a little extra welding work. I bet the it cost more than a rear cross member.
* ART makes frame caps that, while somewhat ugly, would have produced a solid foundation. The cost could have been offset from less "fabrication" of patches.
* The braces in the engine compartment are unnecessary and not true to a GL any way. Use the installation/welding time to put in some trunk extensions.
* Dana 60? How about all new wiring harnesses?
* The $600 "Hemi" K-frame is what? A regular K-frame with Shumacher mounts works fine. Perhaps, some seat foam would have been a better choice?
* Battery relocation kits include grommets. Free.

Other points to note...
* I can't believe you covered holes in the firewall to avoid fumes but left the gaping holes in the trunk extensions (by the exhaust outlets).
* Who else had you tried to sell the car to? Assuming that's the rusty shell (ie pre-movie transformation). I can't image that car cost more than $5k even at the height of the recent boom.
* The pictures on the web site intentionally avoid showing any detail of the sub-par work. I can understand this from a marketing perspective but, surely, there are better cars to use for showcasing your work.

As for the prices, $50k isn't a budget car or "cheap". Many of the members here would find a quote of $50-75k laughable for a bare-minimum driver (even with $25k thrown in for a Hemi). I'd be willing to bet that many members here could do a better job in their home garages as complete amateurs. I know I'd tackle mine in a heartbeat if that's an indication of what $50k+ would buy me. I think the "average" body/restoration shop charges around $45 per hour depending on the area of the country (I have paid as little as $20 - at a real shop, not a guy working on the side). It may be high certain areas but customers these days shop by price.

As I mentioned before, there are many levels of "restoration" and prices range all over the board. However, there are several companies who make accurate GL replicas for much less - and all the important stuff gets replaced. At the other end of the spectrum, XV sells cars for roughly $200k - not $250k - and that's with the full Level 2 treatment and a reworked 6.1 Hemi. Of course, the body is perfect and the interior is completely custom with leather and piles of new electronic gizmos  as well (like the display in the rear view mirror). Those cars are better than restorations (depending on your point of view) and a large portion of the cost is the custom parts. All the expensive show cars/restorations are known for one common theme - attention to detail. The details are what eats up the clock and why a 2nd place car can be half as expensive as the winner.

After seeing that thermostat I wouldn't hesitate to go through that engine.

Troy

[dpm68]

Dang, that's a shame when a good car gets worked over like that - not to mention the customer. No shame.