MCG Rips on new owner of the old Carroll Beeler Bird

[Chris G.]

They didn't hold back on the new owner. I know most think that "It's your car and you can do whatever", but I love the old school and pretty much agree with MCG on this. Although calling the guy out publicly, I don't if I would have done that.

[Blown70]

Well I thought it should have been left as is, but the new owner did not see it that way.....

[Aero426]

Well I thought it should have been left as is, but the new owner did not see it that way.....

Apparently MCG has not seen the photos of the multitude of 1970's body shop shortcuts and deterioration under the surface that this car has suffered. 

Justin made this very clear in the beginning that the despite the photos of the car as purchased, that it truly had some issues underneath that needed attention.    It's pretty apparent by the progress photos taken, that this was a car that really needed the restoration.   It has much more corrosion and bondo that I thought it would have had.    I originally was also in support of letting it be.  But there are corrective measures now being taken on so many fronts, he and the owner are is doing the right thing.   

[Blown70]

Did not say anything about it NOT having issues,  I just think is should be put back to the way it was.

Sorry I agree with the statement of walking down a row of birds, while impressive to me.  THIS would stand out more as it was then what it will NOW BE.

Everyone will have their own opinion of what should or should not have been done.  Fix what needed fixin and LEAVE it be.  I say

Heck I know I posted on the thread about this way back when, and truely feel it is the owners decision, but I know what I would have done.  THEN AGAIN, I dont have $80,000 to purchase the car in the first place so I can STFU, I suppose EH?

Tom

[Aero426]

No doubt that the feel good approach would be to try and limp it along as is, or restore in the custom paint.   Nostalgic as it may be, the hard facts are that it isn't often you spend the money for a ground up restoration and paint it as a day two custom.    The reality is that once you start digging into that car to repair things, you are into the whole car.   There is hardly a panel that has not needed corrective work.     Also, future owners probably will not want the car in a custom configuration, let alone what the current owner wants.   The current owner may have no attachment to the old paint job.   

I have a similar dilemma with my Daytona.   It will not get a full blown restoration, but needs paint pretty bad - although it looks good on a 72 dpi computer screen.    I love the sentiment of the old paint, but I will only have one shot in my financial revolver to repaint the car.   Custom, or V2 with a white stripe.  It will be a tough decision what to do. 

[Mike DC]

 
The American way.  We measure our affection for older things by how hard we've tried to make them look new again. 

The "newer = better" ethos is so built into our culture that we rarely question it. 

[Magnumcharger]

How about....restoring it....to it's modified appearance?

[jonw29]

I am an as-built,factory,all the paint daubs kind of guy.But to me if you are not contributing $$$$$$$$$$$ to the restoration then yiu don't have a say.If your car is modified with paint or whatever that add to the mystique of the car.I enjoy both but I get glassy eyed over a factory type restoration.JW

[tan top]

it did not look it at first  , but once striped down , it needed a restoration  ...

[Ghoste]

I'm kind of on the fence on this one.  Without question the car was well known among the wing car crowd and it provided an interesting look at a specific time period in automotive history that many of us recall fondly.  There is also a very good argument to be made for the "now it's just another orange Superbird" point.  And certainly, the restoration could be made as the car was painted for much of the 70's.
However, most of the wing cars seem to be known to one degree or another by the cognoscenti whether they are bone stock or painted wildly (between three regulars just on this site they must personally know of 2/3 of the Mopar aero cars).  "Just another orange Superbird" is really only a good argument when it's parked at Carlisle or a wing car meet next to several other orange 'birds.  At 90% of the rest of it's time, it's AN ORANGE SUPERBIRD!!!!
As for honoring a past custom paint job, we are all just stewards of these cars for a future generation.  When I own a car, it's mine to do whatever the hell I want with it.  Whose to say that I won't be the person who owns the car the longest and it achieves greater notoriety under my care?  Perhaps I'll custom paint a car and it will become more widely known as I had it.  And after I sell it, maybe I'll care while I know where the car is and what is happening to it (I know this firsthand), but after I'm dead and gone?
I can sympathize with MCG's point of view here pretty easily but I can't by any means throw rocks at the owner for returning the car to stock.  Maybe if it was something truly historic like a factory race car and somebody was changing it, but to paint over a custom job by a private regular owner?

[CornDogsCharger]

Wow!  I have been waiting for the articale to hit the shelves... I haven't gotten my copy yet.  When I talked to Randy about the article I knew he planned on bashing the idea of a factory stock resto.... but I didn't think he would bash the owner THAT bad!  haha.  Oh well, it's out there now... no turning back, huh?  I honestly couldn't say which way I would go on this subject.  Probably more towards the retro look.  I love factory fresh cars, but I can REALLY appreciate a vintage era car.  

I would like to take a chance to correct some of the article.  The owner of the 'Bird (Doug White) is actually my boss and owns the body shop where I work.  The article makes it out like Doug is just another customer.  As for Mr. Beeler selling the car, that isn't true.  From what I understand, Mr. Beeler had three wing cars and gave each of his sons a car.  The son who got the blue car put it up as collateral for something and lost it to the bank.  The bank listed it on RM Auctions and then the buyer sold it on ebay.  

Hey DougSchellinger, I love your car.... how cool is that!  I think it is great that you would like to preserve the history of your car.  That paint job would not be hard to reproduce from what I can tell.  I would love to tackle that.  Randy Holden (editor of MCG) and I were talking about a local '70 Cuda that has a crazy psychodelic paint job on it... this car made the World of Wheels show curcit.  I want to purchase the car just so I can restore it back to the way it was.... crazy paint and all.  

Justin
"CornDog"

[Hemi_tyme]

I would like to take a chance to correct some of the article.  The owner of the 'Bird (Doug White) is actually my boss and owns the body shop where I work.  The article makes it out like Doug is just another customer.

Hey Justin, Give me a call after your boss reads the article, I'm looking for a great paint/body man and i'm only about 8hrs away. J/K  Your doing a great Job :2thumbs:Ken

[CornDogsCharger]

HAHA, too funny.  I actually already warned him that there were gonna be a lot of unhappy people... Randy being one of them... he just said... Oh well, it's my car.  He thought the car was ugly.  In a sense, I can understand where he is coming from, but a can also appreciate the way the car was..... enough to leave it alone.  I can't wait to get my shop built here at the house, I have too many people wanting to do their cars.  I could almost quit work and work at home on other people's cars. 

Justin
"CornDog"

[BPTRacing]

All I can say is WOW



If I purchased a car that was in fair condition and really needed to be restored, I would hate to think I have to have the approval of the united nations.

Yes the car was known to harcore Superbird owners for years, which amounts to a relatively small handful of people in the world of auto enthusiasts.

Sorry - - Never met Carroll Beeler - Never heard of him. Did the car have a racing history?? Was it ever on a TV or in a movie? Did it ever have any salt flat records. Hmm - not by the looks of it. To me the car was something with an old two-tone paint job that was only marginally attractive to begin with. I saw a reference to a Barris car - WHAT? I saw no body modifications - nothing other than a stock car. Since when is a two-tone paint a custom car??? In that case, A bunch of half primered cars would be winning car shows.

Sorry, but that paint was what, the third paint job - Horrors - why change the first two? Isn't that as bad as changing it a again?

If some editor at MCG wanted to save it, they should have bought it. Or maybe they should offer to take up a collection to pay for the restoration back to what it was - of course you would have to decide which of the previous paint jobs to restore it to.

Before everyone completely bashs me, I would like to say my head is hurting from the amount of knowledge about these cars that I have tried to learn from you guys in the short time I have been on this site. From the guys with the intimate knowledge of every part number, production flaw, ect. to the guys building other clones. I can't get enough from this site!!!

I have saved on my computer pictures of the same car with the "old" paint job, and I love it. I also have every photo corndog has published on this site of it. I save every picture I can find on the internet of the "just a bird" that I can find. If your Superbird or Daytona has a pic on the internet, I likely have a copy of it, (if not please send one to me). I'm not looking for JUST restored" cars, original cars, race cars or wrecked cars, I want ALL of them. I love and respect these cars so much, I am building a clone just so I can have a copy for myself.

Since the car is obviously dated and at the time in its life it needs restored - a decision had to be made - who are they (MCG) or us (DodgeCharger.com) to say what the current owner can or can't do with it. Its is still a rare car and from the looks of the restoration, about to be one of the finest examples of what the minds at Creative Industries intended it to be. 

As far as custom and history I'm sure the pic below has some too, but I would be the first one to recommend an original restoration rather than try to save a piece of history.

Rant off 

Scotty

[hotrod98]

Ask Randy if he still feels the same way about leaving them alone after seeing that pic. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Ya - dont worry guys   the head guy at MCG Rob Wolf is a ****sucker of the first order...    he is never shy about his opinions and thinks that his word is law...      **** him...   

[RallyeMike]

"Radical custom Mopar"  WTH is MCG talking about? A goofy paint job, MT valve covers and some interior work?

The car is a typical worn-out 70s-80's street rod. It's not important historically in any sense. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including MCG writers, but they are all wet on this one. 

[xs29j8Bullitt]

As far as custom and history I'm sure the pic below has some too, but I would be the first one to recommend an original restoration rather than try to save a piece of history.

Rant off 

Scotty

Yes it does Scotty... I chased it down in the 1980s with a 6 Cyl GMC pickup to take those pictures... wonder what MCG's position is on that car...

Allen

[Ghoste]

The camper Superbird is an excellent example.

[pettybird]

I personally would have wanted to see the car as it was at next year's Talladega meet, and I would have driven the wheels off of it until then.  My problem with the full restorations is that you're likely to do an excellent job and relegate the car to trailer status.  as it was it could have been driven to spring fling with no regrets...

then again, we have three dirty wing cars here that all need restorations so my opinion is also as skewed as it is irrelevant!

MCG went overboard with the "terror at Talladega" bit, too.  they sure are a dramatic bunch.

[moparstuart]

I hated to see this car get restored original because it was such a cool piece of history .  I changed my mind after seeing justins pictures and how bad the car was covered up under that paint .   It is not our car to say what is done to it anyway .   MCG needs to but out !    They can state an opionion but dont berate the guy .

 

[BPTRacing]

Yes it does Scotty... I chased it down in the 1980s with a 6 Cyl GMC pickup to take those pictures... wonder what MCG's position is on that car...

Allen

Allen,

I thank you for having the foresight back in the 80's for obtaining those pictures! I read the small history you provided about the disabled owner and I forgive him! LOL

Just another wonderful tidbit of info from the vast wealth of knowledge I have gained from this forum!

I too wonder if maybe Rob would take a slightly different stance on retaining those modifications.


I'm sure my modified clone project will raise some disapproving eyebrows among some, and at first was hesitant about even getting on this board due to it being "just a clone" and modified to boot, but I sure don't see any justification in slandering a guy in print for wanting to restore a car back to its original glory.




To Mr. Doug White,
I hope one day to see your wonderful restoration and shake your hand in person!!

And from the looks of most of this post, you will be warmly welcomed here on this forum!


Justin - keep the pictures coming! I can always get a bigger hard drive!


Scotty

[Blown70]

Doug S. I love the car they way yours is. However, again its YOUR car.  You want to make camper special do so.  Not that you would, however, to me I like the nostalgia of the CARs yours too.

JUSTIN, I think you are doing a great JOB with the work dont take away that you are NOT.... GREAT WORK.

ALSO, keep in mind some people will not like my 70 as its TORN up.  See below.

[BPTRacing]

Doug S. I love the car they way yours is. However, again its YOUR car.  You want to make camper special do so.  Not that you would, however, to me I like the nostalgia of the CARs yours too.

JUSTIN, I think you are doing a great JOB with the work dont take away that you are NOT.... GREAT WORK.

ALSO, keep in mind some people will not like my 70 as its TORN up.  See below.

Blown70 - Nice toy, yep I have your pics saved as well
I am particularly interested in the rare factory rack-n-pinion steering ant 12-point cage!
Do you have a thread somewhere with more pics and info on what you are planing to do with this car?

Scotty

[Blown70]

BPT,

No not much progress, I want to run the car on the street, so I took the racing front end off the car.  I do plan to run a hemi, however, this past year life got in the way a bit.  She is sitting patiently in the shop waiting for her turn.

I will start some this next summer, as the bills will be paid down......  The Chassis work is completly done, as is the rear 4-link.  Have thought many times about selling it but, well, you know how tough that can be.

SORRY FOR THE HIJACK.  if you have more questions PM me here.

Thanks,

Tom