Could use a little support...

[KS71owner]

Just saw this forum, had to offer my sympathies. I feel your pain, my 3rd gen was rear-ended back in 1997 to the tune of about $4000. Fotunately the damage was not severe, and the at-fault party's insurance company was nothing but helpful. I lucked out in that my quarters weren't damaged but I did have to replace my rear valance, exhaust tips and my exhaust pipes along with having the bumper and taillight bezels repainted.

Luck has been on my side since then, but there have been a few close calls, including a garbage truck that ran a red light....

Best of luck to you, and I hope you can get what you need to get it fixed.

[472 R/T SE]

I would think/hope that the guilty party pays the majority of it and you only have to use yours for any overages. 

My buddy "daytonakid" (Bill) owns his own body shop and his wife was hit in one of the shops work trucks and there's a guy he hired to handle all the leg work.  This guy knew all the important people with the insurance cos. and it was/is a breeze.  I think the guy charged like $500 but it was a peace of mind for Bill & his wife.

I'll contact him and see if he can shed some light on helping you.

[daytonakid]

I own a shop that specializes in collector car insurance repair. We also specialize in Mopars too. We just restored my 69 Charger R/T. I don't know your exact laws but you are always better off not getting your insurance company involved if you are not at fault. In our state there are a lot of things you can't be reimbursed for if your insurance is paying. From my experience most insurance people are trained to "short pay" claims they get all kinds of perks for cutting their costs. You need someone who knows YOUR RIGHTS but unfortunately not all lawyers are created equal. My wife was hit by someone completely their fault. The insurance company has treated my wife like a criminal, accused her of being uncooperative when she refuses to give them information they are not legally entitled to. My claims handler can tell you horror stories of the tricks they will pull to get you to say or do something to hurt your ability to recover your loss. Don't let anybody kid you MOST insurance company employees look out for each other. I could tell horror story after horror stories of people taken advantage of by insurances companies. They know the laws you don't.    As far a salvage titles. At least in our state if your car is totaled for any reason you have to surrender the title. It is then branded and reissued to you if you retain it. It is illegal to do it otherwise and not fair to the next owner who could seek legal remedy if he ever found out about it.                         On another subject I actually do have a complete restored 68 Charger grille less emblems. Metal parts were powder coated or ceramic coated. Grille repaired using 3m's structural repair compound. And refinished professionally. It is unassembled. I can sell it that way or assemble it. 472 R/T SE knows what the grille I restored for my charger looks like. The 68 grille was done at the same time.   Contact me if you want to get it. Bill bill@eastportlandautobody.com

[dkn1997]

Thanks for the tips.  I sent you an email about the grill.

Heard from the body shop, the adjuster came and did his thing, they started tearing the car down...drivers frame rail cracked and kinked.   

[dkn1997]

I did finally find out the name of his insurance, it's metlife.  i spoke to them today and he did report the accident, but they had none of my info.  they gave me a claim number and requested a copy of the body shop's estimate.  I should have that by tomorrow. 

another question since we are talking about totaling a car out and salvage titles, etc...when is a car a "total loss?"  is it when the damage reaches a certain percentage of the car's book value or when the damage reaches a percentage of the cars's agreed value with the insurance? my point is that even if I have to lay out money, it would lessen the blow if I don't have a salvage title to boot..

[daytonakid]

another question since we are talking about totaling a car out and salvage titles, etc...when is a car a "total loss?"  is it when the damage reaches a certain percentage of the car's book value or when the damage reaches a percentage of the cars's agreed value with the insurance? my point is that even if I have to lay out money, it would lessen the blow if I don't have a salvage title to boot



In your case it would be when the repairs less salvage are more than the "book value". That can be a very subjective thing and you don't have to take the figure the insurance comes up with. In my state the person who hit you is libel for any and all costs. Such as loss of use, and whatever it takes to repair it to "preloss" condition.

[dkn1997]

I checked a few "books' on line.  also recent ebay sales.  low for a car in my condition was 18-20, high was near 30. 

[Tilar]

another question since we are talking about totaling a car out and salvage titles, etc...when is a car a "total loss?"  is it when the damage reaches a certain percentage of the car's book value or when the damage reaches a percentage of the cars's agreed value with the insurance? my point is that even if I have to lay out money, it would lessen the blow if I don't have a salvage title to boot..

Generally an insurance company will TRY to total a car once it reaches 70% of the estimated value before the damage occured. Since the other guys insurance is paying, your $9500 declared value with your insurance company is a moot point unless they are the same company. If they try to welch out on paying, Find one on ebay or craigslist or even here that matches the condition and actual value, and threaten to take them to court.

Threatening court action with an insurance company yields amazing results.

[hemi-hampton]

On newer cars the % rate has been lowered to be determined totaled. What it was & what it is now I forgot. BUT, The reason for this I assume is the big 3 automakers  dont want these cars fixed, but scrapped so you have to buy a new one. I just put a headlight in a new SAAB car & that dang thing was $750. 2 headlights would be $1,500. Thats insane. after a few years when this cars value drops, all he has to do is bump into something & with 2 broken headlights & cracked bumper & grill the thing will be considered totalled. Rediculous, but the way they want it. I just fixed a 72 Barracuda that caught on fire. Pulled Motor, Painted part of engine compartment, fender & hood & price is getting around $15,000. Probabnly more then car is worth. Not sure what the insurance company is going to say after the new estimate given? But, Kinda late, Car done now LEON.

[69bronzeT5]

Special thanks to Mike (nycmille)  Curtis (Bull) and Cody (69bronze)  they went way above an beyond

No probs man. 

[Mike DC]

I just fixed a 72 Barracuda that caught on fire. Pulled Motor, Painted part of engine compartment, fender & hood & price is getting around $15,000. Probabnly more then car is worth. Not sure what the insurance company is going to say after the new estimate given? But, Kinda late, Car done now scratchchin shruggy LEON.

Yeah, but would a collision shop's typical performance of that job really add up like that?  Install & spray two big panels and part of the engine compartment + remove and reinstall the motor?  Sounds like thousands for sure, but $15K seems a little high.   



I understand how you can end up charging that bill in the situation you describe.  With a '72 E-body we have to do everything much more carefully than on a "swap & spray" modern collision repair.  But this is exactly my point though.  Is that job on the '72 Barracuda really comparable to what you'd have billed for doing that same job on a raggedy '81 Nova that some old lady was using as a driver (aside from the higher replacement panel costs)?

[dkn1997]

I'm off of work for a few days and I ventured to the body shop.  So far, we are sorting out the settlement, my ins co. looked at and this morning, the old man's ins. company looked at it.  i got these pics.

[dkn1997]

more:

[dkn1997]

the grill. not nearly as bad as i thought.  I think I can save it.

[dkn1997]

forgot this one.

[dkn1997]

as per my body guy, the adjuster from american collectors was an older guy, knew his stuff, understood the whole deal with classic cars.  the adjuster from metlife was a different story.  first words out of his mouth were 'it's a mopar, it's not worth anything"  and his parents have a classic car, an 87 mercedes, so he understands.....

He thinks the car is worth 10k.  anyway, I don't think it's his job to determine worth so I will be taking it up with the person who is handling the claim on metlife's end. 

I have NADA and some recent ebay sales that tell a way different story and I'm calling metlife today to get out in front of this and wipe out any of this 'your car's not worth shit" talk before they can start it. 

[moparstuart]

keep on the ball and stay ahead of any problems   

[dkn1997]

just got off the phone with the adjuster...he has no clue..however, he said he is not the one who actually makes the determination of value...and neither does the woman handling the claim.  He said that use an "autosource" service where they put all the info in and they get told what the book value is... but what a cocky asshole this guy was....He was trying to nickpick "previous damage" by saying there is a hole in the vinyl top and a rust spot on the rear quarter...was really short with me and I already have his supervisor's number. at this point, I want to see what say it's worth before taking it to the next level.

[472 R/T SE]

I think you're getting a taste of what (daytonakid) Bill said. 

[BMOTOXSTAR]

This just happened 2 hours ago, so i am still stunned. I had my 8 year old daughter with me and a 79 year old man turned left infront of me.  I thank god that I installed 3 point belts in the back. If anything would have happened to her, I couldn't live with myself.  No injuries, except for my pride.  

That is why after the age of 70 all the old f---s should have their licences taken away and kept off the roads.
I have had 2 friends hit on their street bikes from them old bags.
1 guy was killed. Stupid old F's....
Now his life is over at the age of 30 and the old lady lives on cause she cut off a bike.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

That is why after the age of 70 all the old f---s should have their licences taken away and kept off the roads.
I have had 2 friends hit on their street bikes from them old bags.
1 guy was killed. Stupid old F's....
Now his life is over at the age of 30 and the old lady lives on cause she cut off a bike.

Im sorry for your loss but lets keep this thread on track......

[bill440rt]

just got off the phone with the adjuster...he has no clue..however, he said he is not the one who actually makes the determination of value...and neither does the woman handling the claim.  He said that use an "autosource" service where they put all the info in and they get told what the book value is... but what a cocky asshole this guy was....He was trying to nickpick "previous damage" by saying there is a hole in the vinyl top and a rust spot on the rear quarter...was really short with me and I already have his supervisor's number. at this point, I want to see what say it's worth before taking it to the next level.

Most "adjusters" do not determine the actual value of a vehicle. This is done by an outside source, such as thru Autosource. Autosource is a division of ADP, or Audatex estimating. They determine book value based on market averages, & based on the vehicle type, mileage options, condition, etc.
For example, ever try to trade in a used car on a new one?? Most dealers won't accept NADA or Blue Book values. They go by Galves instead, which is based on AUCTION values.
Prior damage, such as rust or a hole in a vinyl top would affect the value of a vehicle because condition affects value. However, on a 40-year old car, one might expect to see a rust bubble or worn top, no?

Sounds like the guy from Metlife is uninformed, duh.     This is where American Collectors would come in & step up to the plate on verifying it's market value.
Good luck, man.

[dkn1997]

American Collectors seemed so eager to just write a check.  I finally asked someone over there about going through the other guy's insurance and he says "I guess you could do that"  maybe they are governed by some rules and regs I don't know about, but if that was me, I'd be wanting someone else to foot the bill if they were liable for the damage.

At this point, I'm waiting on what metlife says. 

[mikepmcs]

I did finally find out the name of his insurance, it's metlife.  i spoke to them today and he did report the accident, but they had none of my info.  they gave me a claim number and requested a copy of the body shop's estimate.  I should have that by tomorrow. 

another question since we are talking about totaling a car out and salvage titles, etc...when is a car a "total loss?"  is it when the damage reaches a certain percentage of the car's book value or when the damage reaches a percentage of the Car's agreed value with the insurance? my point is that even if I have to lay out money, it would lessen the blow if I don't have a salvage title to boot..

That's exactly how it should work.  His(guy at fault) company looks at the body shop estimate and they come to an agreed number and his insurance company pays and yours stays out of it.  Make sure every detail is on the body shop estimate.   So have them look at it again if need be and up the estimate before the agreed price.  Once they agree with metlife the check is in the mail to you(most likely) and the work begins.(sounds like it already has)  The body shop does not side with the insurance company(because they all try to rip the body shops off as well as the consumer) so don't worry there.  Anything after the estimate is agreed on becomes a supplemental so make sure you sign a direction to pay for the body shop once the work begins.  This way they can get extra parts should they find anything else wrong and it won't be delayed because you already signed the DTP and they know they will be reimbursed by said insurance company(metlife in this case)  Don't just hand the check over to the body shop until the work is complete.  If you and the shop come to an agreement that you will give them so much of the check so they can fund parts then so be it, but, they should be able to afford the parts if they are that highly recommended and a bigger shop. If they know the check is hanging in the wind then they will get the job done.  If they have the money then the job will most likely take a back seat(if they are small and struggling, ask me how I know all this )  In other words, don't let them function off your job/money.   

To answer your second question

Percentage of the car's book value.  Other insurance company should have no clue what the agreed value is.  Hopefully AC Insurance has not told metlife this because they all stick together and screw the consumer.  Once again they should not be involved if the dude that hit you was insured.
You are the victim here and let it be known to whomever gives you shit about it.  Don't get taken.  You shouldn't have to shell out a dime!!!
keep us posted and get some pics of body shops progress.  Don't be afraid to walk in every once in a while to see what's going on.  The techs might cuss you behind the scene but I bet they pay more attention to detail and they will know that you want your car back in a timely manner.  Stay visible.

Is this a collision repair facility or a resto shop?

v/r
Mike

[dkn1997]

It's a collision shop, but they work on classics too.  there's some older stuff in there now. The guy who's working on my car is about my age, so while he wasn't around in the 60's, these cars are not foreign to him. 

I am battening down the hatches and preparing for a fight on the book value with metlife. at this point the repairs are going to be between 10-12K and that won't change.  The only sphincter factor here is what does metlife value the car at?  I went through this with a newer car years ago where I got them to up the book value by showing them similar cars in the local want ads that were asking more.  I don't know if that will be the case here, but I am ready to go at it with them if I have to.