Nissan joins bidding for Chrysler

[472 R/T SE]

May be old news but this is a current assessment in the parting out of our beloved Ma' Mopar.

This is from my Mother.  She's a comptroller in Texas for Group One, the third largest Mopar conglomerate in the country.  No link as it was sent to her by one of her managers.



Ghosn's proposal: Chrysler would be partner with Renault-Nissan

(10/22/2008)



DealersEdge Daily Headlines

Renault-Nissan is proposing to acquire around 20 percent of Chrysler and bring the automaker into the French-Japanese automotive partnership, according to a report in the Detroit News, which cited sources familiar with the situation.



The offer is now before private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management, which also is in talks with General Motors.



Sources familiar with the discussions said Carlos Ghosn, chief executive of both Renault and Nissan, sent a proposal in recent days that included revisions to a draft agreement prepared by Cerberus.



The sources said Nissan would acquire the stake because it has cash on hand, whereas Renault now has debts of more than $5 billion.



Nissan and Chrysler already have several joint projects in the works; with Nissan planning to produce small cars for Chrysler and Chrysler scheduled to make the next generation Titan full-size pickup for Nissan. Chrysler and Nissan managers say the teams work well together.

 

Chrysler would likely remain largely intact as a partner in the Renault-Nissan alliance.



It would participate in the joint purchasing, vehicle platform development and other programs, paring its costs. But it would have its own management and retain its brands. 



Sources close to the talks say it is far from certain that Cerberus will conclude a deal with either Renault-Nissan or GM.



GM and Cerberus are said to be targeting a deal before the presidential election Nov. 4, when politicians may be more receptive to requests for federal aid to complete a merger.



The sources familiar with the negotiations say Nissan would likely acquire a stake of at least 15 percent -- allowing it to account for the holding as an equity investment under Japanese rules -- and most likely around 20 percent.



Nissan Executive Vice President Carlos Tavares is leading the negotiations, according to the sources, with help from senior U.S.-based Nissan executives.

[Magnumcharger]

None of which sound good....

[69bronzeT5]

Nissan and Chrysler.....

[69*F5*SE]

This merger stuff bums me out 

[472 R/T SE]

This merger stuff bums me out 

Me too.  When Cerebus bought them out, I pretty much figured it was only temporary so the fact they were now American owned was a mixed feeling.

I wanna say where's Kerkorian in all this?  I don't know that he would be much better, besides can't help but wonder if the money he wanted to use to buy Chrysler before Daimler bought them, he spent buying up GM stock.  Or he's wealthier than hell. 

[runningman]

This merger stuff bums me out 

Yes I am sick of not knowing if I am going to have a job when I get up in the morning.  I just hope I can hang on long enough to get my car done 

[Brock Samson]

 Don't forget Chrysler partnered with Mutsubishi in the '70s and Simca in the '60s and some pretty good platforms came about as the result of those pairings. My beloved 300 M was actually designed on french software in France in the mid '90s as a result of the roots of the original Eagle Vision a third generation of the LH design.
Yes the LHS, The Intrepid, Concord also were sourced from the French software too.
 
I ain't happy about the dilution of our brand but it's really hard times in the industry and there arn't just the big three now like in 1966.

There are approx. 60 name plates being sold in the USA these days.

[Ponch ®]

GM + Chrysler = No Chrysler

Chrysler + 0 = No Chrysler

Nissan + Chrysler = Nissan/Chrysler


Seems like the best of a bad situation...

[bakerhillpins]

GM + Chrysler = No Chrysler

Chrysler + 0 = No Chrysler

Nissan + Chrysler = Nissan/Chrysler


Seems like the best of a bad situation...

I guess I am in the minority when I see the Nissan deal as a good way to help keep Chrysler alive and with its own identity.

Bryan

[runningman]

We are all hoping that if anything does happen it will be with Nissan.  Sounds like that is our best chance to survive.

[RD]

GM + Chrysler = No Chrysler

Chrysler + 0 = No Chrysler

Nissan + Chrysler = Nissan/Chrysler


Seems like the best of a bad situation...

i totally agree with ponch on this.. at least we can still have some sense of brand integrity here.  i would rather have a nissan at a mopar meet then a GM any day of the week.

[Ghoste]

If I absolutely must pick I guess I'd rather they take their chance with Nissan as well but as much as I hate to say it, this whole thing just forces me to be a pessimist.  There were a few gloomy predictions made about Cerberus breaking the company up and selling it off and however you look at these "mergers", you pretty much have to come to the conclusion that it is the way it is going down.

[Charger74]

I have to agree that Nissan would be a much better deal the GM.  Why would you want a failing company to buy you up when you can get one that is financially sound buy you up instead.

[Charger_Fan]

This whole thing's just really friggin' lame. Having Nissan owning Chrysler is no better that GM owning it, in my book. The ugly ducklings resulting from such inbreeding will be downright scary.

I'm glad my Charger was made during a time when the company was secure in it's manhood.

[41husk]

I would rather see Nissan than GM, I believe Chrysler has been down this road before.  In the eighties I thought the Plymouth Turismo and a few other models were actually built by Mitsubishi?

[Magnumcharger]

I read a considerable bit about Cerberus when they bought out Daimler.
I was upset when I read how Cerberus specializes in buying other companies, and basically parts them out, extracting the wealth out of them in the process.
I realize this is plain 'ol business 101, and nature too. Big/strong animal eats small/weak animal.
Unfortunately for me (and a lot of others), there's an emotional component to all of this.
Nissan's interest in Chrysler could be nothing more than Daimler and Cerebus before it.

Sucking the life out of Chrysler.

[moparstuart]

    yes but if its no chrysler or a try with nissan we can alway hope ? but the out look either way looks bleak

[69charger2002]

call me stupid, but personally i don't see why chrysler is in SUCH bad shape now? i mean extremely recent economy problems aside, which is affecting all auto makers.. when did chrysler get so bad off? i see more dodge ram's on the road than any other truck, by FAR. i see TONS of new chargers, 300's, and even challengers already.. there are only few makes that you don't see as many of.. dakotas, durangos, nitro etc.. but overall i see more chrysler/dodge products than any other make on the road.. what is the deal??surely you gus can remember even in the early 90's when ford and chevy owned the truck market, dodge had a 5% share it seemed like. now they're everywhere and we're worse off??

[41husk]

I would say you see more Mustangs on the road around here and Ford is the poster child for slumping companies

[Mike DC]

What sticks out in my mind is that Mopar can't sell a CAR  to save its life.  It hasn't been able to do so in a long, long time.  That's not a healthy company.  (High-selling domestic trucks in the last 15 years are a demonstration of good luck more than good corporate planning IMHO.)



If you see a Mopar on the road from the 2000s, it's a Daimler-based Chagnum model. 
(And it's not all that common.)

If you see one from the 1990s, it's a truck. 
(Or an occasional Neon, and that thing has probably done them as much harm as good in the long run.)

If you see a Mopar from the 1980s, it's a minivan.

The later 70s sold some A-bodies but not enough to even keep them out of bankruptcy. 



  .  .  .   so where are we now  .  .  .  the muscle-era?  That's about the last time Mopar was actually succeeding at selling cars. 

[jackel440]

Well I know I am sick of all the talk.Cerberus saying they are in for the long haul.To bring back an american icon. 
I have been workn for ma mopar for over 14 yrs.second generation chrysler employee.Its so sad to see the great company we had in the early 90's be stripped on the inside by the germans.There was some good things that happened ,but in the long run they just raped us.Then they sell us out after getting what they wanted.
Now we have Cerberus trying to pawn us to gm for gmac.
I hope that GM cannot get the financing to make a deal.As the loss of jobs will be tremendus.We have nothing to offer GM.They have a lot to gain.Our cash and a few products that they could never make right.
I hate to say it ,but i would rather work with Nissan ,and still build a great product.Keep people employed and working.Even though i like the feeling of being an american company again as we are right now.
I never for the life of me could understand why the germans wanted to slash the neon or not have a replacement for it.you see those things everywhere.Can't hardly buy one used.another co worker drives 80 miles one way to work ,and was getting 34 mpg on the highway with his.
Oh well its out of my hands.I go in each day and do the best I can.Hope that i don't get the call that i'm gett'n laid off.

[bull]

What sticks out in my mind is that Mopar can't sell a CAR  to save its life.  It hasn't been able to do so in a long, long time.  That's not a healthy company.  (High-selling domestic trucks in the last 15 years are a demonstration of good luck more than good corporate planning IMHO.)

That's because their cars suck fuel and always have. Show me one Chrysler car in the top ten for fuel economy in the past 10-20 years. Neon might make the list here and there but that's probably about it. That cylinder cutoff technology went nowhere that I can tell. Meanwhile GM is building hybrids left and right that get 25-35 mpg and Toyota, Nissan, VW and Honda (basically all the Asian and German imports) have models that get excellent fuel mileage. At some point you'd half expect Chrysler to get in the mpg game with gas at $3-$4/gal.

[SFRT]

I'm ok with it. I have a 350z loaded with Nismo stuff I got when I went to Yokahama a few years ago. Nissan is pretty dedicated to 'performance' cars and the Z has been an outstanding vehicle. I have had it up to 160 mph...while listening to the stereo, easy as pie. Once I lowered it to the factory race specs..man o man thing will pancake around a corner at 90. 1500 mile nonstop road trip at high speeds ? no problem. It's been an excellent excellent car top notch quality.

[FLG]

Wouldnt mind Nissan.

Im with SFRT, Got a 1995 Nissan Pathfinder only 120k on her but in 10 years of owning it besides normal matinence all ive done is an alternator on the car and i beat the crap out of it sometimes. The damn thing is never broken down and ive never had a single problem exept the alt going at 80k or so.

[Mike DC]

           

I think the cylinder cutoff tech will look like a real wasted opportunity in retrospect.

I understand why they did it the way they did; they were basically trying to convince the world that it wasn't gonna suck like Caddilac's V8-6-4 thing in the early 1980s.  But the problem is, if you make the cruising/switchover characteristics 100% undetectable to the driver, then you're also making it about 75% ineffective at doing its job. 



The whole thing works beautifully and it's already 100% computer-controlled as it is now.  It would have cost them NOTHING, engineering-wise, to just offer that setup on a switch with several possible settings.  I imagine it could be done similiar to an auto transmission's varying shift points based on throttle loading, or something. 

Let the vehicle's wealthy first owner rip through $150 a week in gas in the "undetectable" hi-power mode.  Ten years later, the poorer 3rd owner can leave it in "majority-time 4cyl" and save his money.

[nakita7]

call me stupid, but personally i don't see why chrysler is in SUCH bad shape now? i mean extremely recent economy problems aside, which is affecting all auto makers.. when did chrysler get so bad off? i see more dodge ram's on the road than any other truck, by FAR. i see TONS of new chargers, 300's, and even challengers already.. there are only few makes that you don't see as many of.. dakotas, durangos, nitro etc.. but overall i see more chrysler/dodge products than any other make on the road.. what is the deal??surely you gus can remember even in the early 90's when ford and chevy owned the truck market, dodge had a 5% share it seemed like. now they're everywhere and we're worse off??

I am totally with you on this one. Chrysler has had more 'industry changing' cars than any other manufacturer that I have seen. K-cars and 'THE' minivan in the 80's. Hello? HUGE selling vehicles. Then the new Ram in 1993. My brother-in-law works at a Chrysler dealership and he told me when they changed the truck design, Chrysler's sales of trucks went up NINE times. I agree, there are way more Rams on the road today than the other pickups. Neons and 300's seem to be popular. Jeeps have been around how long now? The new Challenger is starting the Pony Car race again. The Caravan has been the best selling minivan almost every year since 1984 and is always rated very well in Consumer Reports. I just don't get it??? How can a company that popular been that bad off? It's either really bad management, or there are shananigans going on that we just don't know about...

[runningman]

What sticks out in my mind is that Mopar can't sell a CAR  to save its life.  It hasn't been able to do so in a long, long time.  That's not a healthy company.  (High-selling domestic trucks in the last 15 years are a demonstration of good luck more than good corporate planning IMHO.)

That's because their cars suck fuel and always have. Show me one Chrysler car in the top ten for fuel economy in the past 10-20 years. Neon might make the list here and there but that's probably about it. That cylinder cutoff technology went nowhere that I can tell. Meanwhile GM is building hybrids left and right that get 25-35 mpg and Toyota, Nissan, VW and Honda (basically all the Asian and German imports) have models that get excellent fuel mileage. At some point you'd half expect Chrysler to get in the mpg game with gas at $3-$4/gal.

My buddy has an Avenger and says he is getting around 28 MPG but figures it would be closer to 30 if he didn't drive like a maniac.  I believe the Sebring and Compass are a couple of others that are in that range

[89MOPAR]

  The Irony of this whole situation is that before Chrysler merged with Mercedes-Daimler , they did some studies and were seriously considering Merging with Nissan.
    ..... But they thought Nissan was too weak financially
  .....So then Nissan merged with Renault instead.

  an excellent book for any so inclined to find out how the D-C merger really happened is called "Taken for a Ride".

[bull]

What sticks out in my mind is that Mopar can't sell a CAR  to save its life.  It hasn't been able to do so in a long, long time.  That's not a healthy company.  (High-selling domestic trucks in the last 15 years are a demonstration of good luck more than good corporate planning IMHO.)

That's because their cars suck fuel and always have. Show me one Chrysler car in the top ten for fuel economy in the past 10-20 years. Neon might make the list here and there but that's probably about it. That cylinder cutoff technology went nowhere that I can tell. Meanwhile GM is building hybrids left and right that get 25-35 mpg and Toyota, Nissan, VW and Honda (basically all the Asian and German imports) have models that get excellent fuel mileage. At some point you'd half expect Chrysler to get in the mpg game with gas at $3-$4/gal.

My buddy has an Avenger and says he is getting around 28 MPG but figures it would be closer to 30 if he didn't drive like a maniac.  I believe the Sebring and Compass are a couple of others that are in that range

I don't know. Not one Chrysler among the top 50 of the 2009 model year for combined mpg over 25 in the "small cars" category: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm

However I did see four Chrysler products among the top 50 under the "family sedan over 20 mpg" category starting at about #26. Looks like Avenger is at #27 on this list right after Sebring.

Not much to brag about IMO but I guess it's something.

[runningman]

What sticks out in my mind is that Mopar can't sell a CAR  to save its life.  It hasn't been able to do so in a long, long time.  That's not a healthy company.  (High-selling domestic trucks in the last 15 years are a demonstration of good luck more than good corporate planning IMHO.)

That's because their cars suck fuel and always have. Show me one Chrysler car in the top ten for fuel economy in the past 10-20 years. Neon might make the list here and there but that's probably about it. That cylinder cutoff technology went nowhere that I can tell. Meanwhile GM is building hybrids left and right that get 25-35 mpg and Toyota, Nissan, VW and Honda (basically all the Asian and German imports) have models that get excellent fuel mileage. At some point you'd half expect Chrysler to get in the mpg game with gas at $3-$4/gal.

My buddy has an Avenger and says he is getting around 28 MPG but figures it would be closer to 30 if he didn't drive like a maniac.  I believe the Sebring and Compass are a couple of others that are in that range

I don't know. Not one Chrysler among the top 50 of the 2009 model year for combined mpg over 25 in the "small cars" category: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm

However I did see four Chrysler products among the top 50 under the "family sedan over 20 mpg" category starting at about #26. Looks like Avenger is at #27 on this list right after Sebring.

Not much to brag about IMO but I guess it's something.

They list the Avenger as a "family sedan", I hate to see what the "small car" looks like.  I wonder if these are the sticker ratings or real world.  It seems like the sticker ratings on the Chrysler vehicles are lower than what people are actually getting.

Chrysler definitely has some work to do though, I don't understand why there is such a gap in fuel economy....

[bull]

call me stupid, but personally i don't see why chrysler is in SUCH bad shape now? i mean extremely recent economy problems aside, which is affecting all auto makers.. when did chrysler get so bad off? i see more dodge ram's on the road than any other truck, by FAR. i see TONS of new chargers, 300's, and even challengers already.. there are only few makes that you don't see as many of.. dakotas, durangos, nitro etc.. but overall i see more chrysler/dodge products than any other make on the road.. what is the deal??surely you gus can remember even in the early 90's when ford and chevy owned the truck market, dodge had a 5% share it seemed like. now they're everywhere and we're worse off??

I am totally with you on this one. Chrysler has had more 'industry changing' cars than any other manufacturer that I have seen. K-cars and 'THE' minivan in the 80's. Hello? HUGE selling vehicles. Then the new Ram in 1993. My brother-in-law works at a Chrysler dealership and he told me when they changed the truck design, Chrysler's sales of trucks went up NINE times. I agree, there are way more Rams on the road today than the other pickups. Neons and 300's seem to be popular. Jeeps have been around how long now? The new Challenger is starting the Pony Car race again. The Caravan has been the best selling minivan almost every year since 1984 and is always rated very well in Consumer Reports. I just don't get it??? How can a company that popular been that bad off? It's either really bad management, or there are shananigans going on that we just don't know about...

Well, so much for this notion. I heard today that Chrysler is cutting 5,000 jobs at least.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081024/financial_meltdown.html

[runningman]

Yes I got an email this morning, 25% cut in salaried employees.  Nardelli is basically telling them to take the incentive packages now or you will be screwed later.

[bull]

They already laid off 300 last month: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/25/chrysler-to-lay-off-300-salaried-workers-this-week/

[runningman]

These are truly unimaginable times for our industry. We continue to be in the most difficult economic period any of us can remember. The combination of troubled financial markets, difficult credit, volatile commodity prices, the housing crisis and declining consumer confidence continues to weigh on the economy. Never before have auto industry sales contracted at such a fast rate. Throughout this challenging time for our industry and our company, we have continued to face the realities of our business environment. Working as a team, we have been right-sizing our organization to become as competitive as possible. 
As business conditions today continue to decline, and we prepare for economic challenges extending into 2009, additional actions will be needed to re-size our company to remain competitive. Due to the unprecedented conditions in the auto industry, both in our home and international markets, we are targeting a 25 percent reduction in our salaried and supplemental work force. As always, we will strive to do this in a socially responsible way, with respect and gratitude to those who have contributed so much to our company over the years.
Your leadership team will receive the details on new voluntary programs today that will be made available to Chrysler salaried employees beginning in November. These new programs will be available to a broader group than before and will feature enhanced benefits, including both cash and new-vehicle vouchers. Your management will share all the program details with you in the next few days. I hope that every eligible employee takes time to seriously consider these enhanced offerings given the current environment. In addition, it will be necessary to have involuntary separation actions at the end of December, which is why the company is also issuing a WARN act notice today.
We need to work harder and more diligently to control every expense. To that end, we are eliminating in some cases, and cutting back on all discretionary and overhead expenses. Details of this initiative will be communicated through your leadership team. As an additional cost savings measure, we also will be reducing capital expenditures, but I assure you that we are protecting all major product programs.
As we re-size the company to reflect declines in volume, we know we must find new and more efficient ways to conduct our business operations. We recognize that in order to strengthen our competitive capability, and reduce the time and cost to achieve our objectives, we cannot operate as we have in the past. In the near future, we will be making organizational announcements as a result of restructuring actions reflecting the need to find new ways to operate, while still recognizing the importance of focusing on the customer, a relentless commitment to quality and investing in the programs that we need to compete in the marketplace.
I realize the appetite to know what the future holds for Chrysler is tremendous. Media speculation about our fate continues to be rampant. As a matter of company policy, Chrysler does not confirm or disclose the nature of its business meetings, in many cases to comply with legal requirements, as well as protect the integrity of our Company and those with whom we meet. When erroneous reports can be corrected with definitive answers, I support dealing with these issues in a clear and direct manner. I want to assure you that your leadership team is committed to communicating fully and directly to you if, and when, there is something to announce.
The Chrysler team has been through tremendous change over the years through the many ups and downs of this industry. During these tumultuous times, I encourage you to help each other to keep a sharp focus on the important tasks at hand.
Thank you for your continued dedication.
Bob

[bull]

And it looks like GM is going to add to its 5,100 layoffs that are supposed to take place between last summer and Nov. 1. Plus now they are going to screw with the employees' retirement structure: http://www.autoblog.com/category/hirings-firings/

Also, Chrysler is going to close down the Newark Assembly Plant early (by the end of the year) so that probably means the Durango and Aspen are finished.

"(Newark) employs 1,000 workers and another 825 will be affected by the shift reduction in Toledo. According to The Detroit News, those 1,825 workers out of a job represent about 6% of Chrysler's hourly-workforce."

[runningman]

Yes I guess the Durango and Aspen are done.  I can't figure that out because the hybrid versions are just being introduced.  They are taking the Toledo North plant down to one shift also.

[bull]

Yes I guess the Durango and Aspen are done.  I can't figure that out because the hybrid versions are just being introduced.  They are taking the Toledo North plant down to one shift also.

You're right. Sorry, I edited my post above because I just found more info...

[Silver R/T]

maybe Ill be able to go and get a 20?? Charger 2 door with AWD and twin turbo setup 6spd manual/paddle shift that will do 12's from the factory

[Mopar2Ya]

I guess whatever it takes to keep Chrysler around. Chrysler, GM, & Ford could have crushed the Jap car companies in the 70's, but they were to conceded. We need to bring jobs back to America, instead of letting Jap/China make everything for us. There need to be high tariffs on Jap/Chinese products. There is a wave sweeping this country, everyone now thinks Jap cars are the best treating them as if they were Lambos/Ferrari's. There's no way I'm trading my Mopar for a yota just to save 2mpg then pay more for the car/lose $ on the trade,but this is happening every day. We can thank the media & hearsay. JMO. The new Durango is to be based off the next Grand Cherokee platform, the Aspen/Commander are on the chopping block.

[Back N Black]

I heard a nasty rumor today, that Chrysler is going to declare bankruptcy on Monday. 

[bull]

I heard a nasty rumor today, that Chrysler is going to declare bankruptcy on Monday. 

What source? Something like CNN or the counter guy down at Pep Boys?

[73TXRallye440]

I heard a nasty rumor today, that Chrysler is going to declare bankruptcy on Monday. 

What source? Something like CNN or the counter guy down at Pep Boys?

[Mike DC]

One way or another the axe is gonna fall. 

This week, next month, next year . . . bankruptcy, taken over, parted out . . .  in the end I think it's just a question of the specifics now.

[mikepmcs]

My buddy just text me and said he's hearing toyota is in the mix as well.

I told him i'd bring it up here and find out the real scoop.

[Ghoste]

So the Fiat deal is off now?

[mikepmcs]

I can find nothing on toyota at all.  Just want the real scoop as a collective from here.
Some guy in his class just spouted off.  I think he might have meant Fiat but didn't have facts straight.  Any rumors and toyota usually lands in there somewhere, IMO

[Brock Samson]

  check the date - that was eight mos ago...

[mikepmcs]

Right back at ya! The rumors started flying for that way more than 8 months ago as far as I can tell.  Toyota's buying Chrysler, Toyota's buying GM, etc.......