ppl with other classics brands... repro parts quality

[Nacho-RT74]

just was thinking and wondering... what about another brands classic cars when getting repro or "oficial" resto parts on a restoring job ? how is the quality ?

I was thinking on that since when I see for example turning signal switches bening made by "Mopar" they are not close to the originals. I have known about Hazzard knob needing to be trimmed to fit on 70s cars and horn stud is not anymore with the roller.

Then the plastic panels being not really same grain pattern to the Original ones so YOU CAN NOT try to fit an original with a repro side by side. Would need to change ALL the set to be "unnoticeable"

At Carlisle I saw closelly the tuff weel repro, and they look really nice. I didn't buy because out of room to travel back to Venezuela ( and some money issues ), but got doubts about the thick of the rubber. Dunno really if was the correct one since was LOOOONG time ago when my tuff wheel had the original rubber grip. I felt the wheel a ltlle biit thin.

and I can talk about several parts like those, specially interior parts.

I didn't like either the repro mirrors. They can be better IMHO

in counterpart I got REALLY pleased with the gas tank ( just the tabs to the floater lock ring some weak ) and parking lenses.

so, please opinions about rest of car brands owners.

[TripleBlackGator]

I have installed that same switch in my column and took note of all the things you noticed as well. Since the GatorMobile is currently dismantled I have no idea yet if it works as it should. It was put in because most people (including yourself if you remember) stated it was needed to cure a "no brake lights" issue. Mostly I have had nothing but trouble with repo parts and usually it is with fitting the parts on the car. There is always a hole that needs elongated to line up the parts correctly. I know some of this can be attributed to how tolerances were out of whack any given day on the assembly line but some of the fitment is just plain horrible. Thankfully I have access to a machine shop or more of my reproduction parts would have been returned. B/E & A has some very nice looking parts and so does PG Classics but I can't speak for their fit. So many times parts have to be tweaked and I mean TWEAKED to get them to fit and look right. I bought a complete set of seat covers from Legendary and never did like the look of the salt and pepper inserts. They look more like silver and black. They claim the material is NOS but I seriously have my doubts. I also bought a headliner from Year One and had a well known Mopar restoration company install it. They asked where I purchased it from because of the "feel" of the material. I don't think I am being too picky about these things either. When they claim their parts are accurate they sure as hell should be especially given the prices they are asking for them. 

[SFRT]

I have a bunch of BEA stuff and its basically pretty nice. I think theres some stuff to consider:

1. pollution laws have changed and some plastics and so on are no longer made in the us so everythings made overseas, where they have NO way to 'exactly' match the 'feel' of certain items that where proprietary formulated materials made here in the US 40 odd years ago with now long gone equipment, methods and materials.

2.same goes for any 'woven' stuff. NO ONE in china or taiwan or wherever has whatevr weird old machines and raw stock they had floating around US industrial zones in the early 20th century, at best all youll get is something close. If no one weaves or makes a raw material, how will you replicate exactly? Invest several million dollars to make say...500 headliners?

not going to happen.

same for REAL plastic, machine injected ABS plastics ( I design toys so I know all about this)...no way cab you reformulate weird 50 year old mixes, then re build some VERY elaborate machining to make say 800 parking light lenses that sell for maybe 50 bucks each or whatever. It would cost millions again to set it up for what 50,000 bucks in sales?

so...what i see is decent to high quality RESIN casting. Its pretty good, and way better than clouded brittle outgassed OG parts. but you will have to replace them a lot over the years.

Being a person that designs for plastics and metal manufacture, I am actually amazed at the variety of parts available and being made at all. It is NOT a huge market.

I myself directly manufacture plastic, vinyl and fibergalss items in China , Japan and The Phillipines ( theres actually very little plastics made in Taiwan anymore the labor is too high)

and I have asked my factory dudes over there about making repro parts, and they will and CAN make say, exact duplicates of dash fascia for example, but....the machining alone for a set would cost me on the order of 65.000-80,000 dollars. then the run costs so I would have to pony up maybe 90 grand for a 2 year manufacturing cycle in order to make 1 type of fascia set.

now..a set of those retails for what..450 bucks?  so I would have to sell 4000-5000 sets at wholesale to break even. then your talking about having to set up a US warehouse.marketing and fulfillment operation. figure thats another 100-150 grand a year for staff and so on.

but..hey I can get the stuff sculpted and made so if anyone wants to spend a ton of money to sell a feww hundred pieces...let me know....

[SFRT]

also..it seems to me that if one where to make repros....decent quality LOWER DASH PADS would be a hot item. I bet just about everyone could use a nice fresh set.

[Chatt69chgr]

I am in full agreement on the LOWER DASH PADS.

[Nacho-RT74]

I have installed that same switch in my column and took note of all the things you noticed as well. Since the GatorMobile is currently dismantled I have no idea yet if it works as it should. It was put in because most people (including yourself if you remember) stated it was needed to cure a "no brake lights" issue.

Thats why I did wait for a good oportunity:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170263772398

I didn't need it... yet, but looking forward

[Nacho-RT74]

searching for other car brands owners opinions

[BEAPARTS]

I have a bunch of BEA stuff and its basically pretty nice. I think theres some stuff to consider:

1. pollution laws have changed and some plastics and so on are no longer made in the us so everythings made overseas, where they have NO way to 'exactly' match the 'feel' of certain items that where proprietary formulated materials made here in the US 40 odd years ago with now long gone equipment, methods and materials.

2.same goes for any 'woven' stuff. NO ONE in china or taiwan or wherever has whatevr weird old machines and raw stock they had floating around US industrial zones in the early 20th century, at best all youll get is something close. If no one weaves or makes a raw material, how will you replicate exactly? Invest several million dollars to make say...500 headliners?

not going to happen.

same for REAL plastic, machine injected ABS plastics ( I design toys so I know all about this)...no way cab you reformulate weird 50 year old mixes, then re build some VERY elaborate machining to make say 800 parking light lenses that sell for maybe 50 bucks each or whatever. It would cost millions again to set it up for what 50,000 bucks in sales?

so...what i see is decent to high quality RESIN casting. Its pretty good, and way better than clouded brittle outgassed OG parts. but you will have to replace them a lot over the years.

Being a person that designs for plastics and metal manufacture, I am actually amazed at the variety of parts available and being made at all. It is NOT a huge market.

I myself directly manufacture plastic, vinyl and fibergalss items in China , Japan and The Phillipines ( theres actually very little plastics made in Taiwan anymore the labor is too high)

and I have asked my factory dudes over there about making repro parts, and they will and CAN make say, exact duplicates of dash fascia for example, but....the machining alone for a set would cost me on the order of 65.000-80,000 dollars. then the run costs so I would have to pony up maybe 90 grand for a 2 year manufacturing cycle in order to make 1 type of fascia set.

now..a set of those retails for what..450 bucks?  so I would have to sell 4000-5000 sets at wholesale to break even. then your talking about having to set up a US warehouse.marketing and fulfillment operation. figure thats another 100-150 grand a year for staff and so on.

but..hey I can get the stuff sculpted and made so if anyone wants to spend a ton of money to sell a feww hundred pieces...let me know....

Very well put, you hit the nail right on the head.  It is very expensive to reproduce parts from real tooling.  Everyone in this hobby, including myself, has lived the dream of sub-par reproduction parts because of the manufacturing process used to produce them.  Not taking away from those that have brought parts to the market using creativity, but man, it is very expensive to do it right.

In reference to the bbody lower dash pads, we are looking at doing them right now.  We are evaluating the economics of this project, I'm not sure the market will bare the cost of the finished product.


Michael C. Ross - Owner
B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc.
www.beaparts.com
330-725-3990

[Nacho-RT74]

ok... what about OTHER BRANDS!!!! I mean GM resto line, Ford Resto line.

I'm agree some parts are hard to repro, BUT NOT EVEN THE "MOPAR" RESTO PARTS in some cases are the right ones... turning switch is just one example.

I have known ( never saw personally )the 73/74 wiper washer reservoir is crap, because the cap doesn't fit tight! and is supposelly an AUTHENTIC MOPAR RESTO part

[Mike DC]

  
Myself, I think the hobby has been totally off the deep end about original appearances for years.

I like original-looking parts within reason, and I hate seeing things built wrong purely out of laziness.  But I'll never understand why people would rather have that last 5% of the appearance perfect as opposed to just having the whole damn thing be a better-functioning part.  

And what's with the priorities of what is important?  I could build the whole damn inteiror in the wrong color shade entirely, and get less criticism than if I had the color correct but some of the vinyl's grain patterns wrong!  WTF?!?  (This, from the hobby that knows an incorrect GLOSS on a painted drivetrain part on the underside of the same car!)


-----------------------------------------


I also think the popularity of my opinion will only grow in the future of the hobby.  Same principle as matching numbers on engines & VINs, origninal-looking paint colors, vintage looking tires, etc.  

(By this, I mean that originality is only such a treasured quality if you grew attached to these cars at a time when most of them still had some decent/working original components still on them.  On the other hand if you're more like 24 years old right now, then the presence of "original" stuff on an old musclecar has never meant anything to you except "totally worn-out & useless, yet overpriced because of it.")

[SFRT]

A friend of mine is restoring his 1960 Thunderbird and the quality of his repro stuff is ,if anything, crappier than the 'mopar' resto parts I have been getting. He just paid a boatload for a tonneau cover that is basically a fiberglass shell that doesnt line up anywhere ...but, apart from finding an original,,,thats all there is. Chevy stuff is plentiful, but again, the 'quality' is going to be mostly crummy.

back in the day all those little items like switches and stuff where outsourced to a multitude of small local makers, none of which survive and all of which tossed their machining a couple of years after the parts where no longer being ordered by the Big Three.

'Mopar' actually means that 'Bob and Sons in Bumfuck Illinois' made a part according to a spec sheet and sold them to Mopar. I bet 60% of the parts on your original car came from these outside suppliers, if not more. 'Ma Mopar' basically did the assembly and engineering.

I doubt if any small company sat down in 1972 and said 'hey these machine toools for a 68-69 year dodge whatever are going to be needed 40 years from now.

[SFRT]

Im also in agreement with Mike DC...I could care less if I have any 'original' parts..what I want is parts that are as 'fresh' as possible, fit and WORK.

I think dudes that spend say...400,000.00 to 'perfectly restore' a car to ' original just off the line' crummy, shitty 1970 quality no real peformance status it'll break in the first 100 miles condition..are totally insane. These cars where banged together by bored, hungover lazy line workers with the cheapest possible parts and materials, as fast as possible. I think ANY decent modern upgrades that dont radically alter the cosmetic appearance of the car are a better way to go.

cause, if you think about it, EVERY existing car is a 'survivor' in 'original condition'....all those changes over the years by various owners and mother nature are 'real' and 'original'.

the entire 'restoration thing' is nutty.

[Mike DC]

 
And I totally agree with SFRT's comments about both the original suppliers for Mopar, and about the quality of repro parts for the other brands. 
Mopar has long been at the back of the pack for the original parts' quality, and been at the front of the pack for demanding top-grade replacements. 



The only thing that was good about the original cars was the sheetmetal's steel thickness/alloy (compared to modern stuff) and the designs of the drivetrain/chassis parts on paper. 

Most of the execution on these cars was crap from the factory.  They had unibody slop differences of 1/2-inch or more in some of the non-critical places. (Modern chassis are more like 2mm.)  The finishes on everything from the plastic plating to the body paint was never really a safe bet to last more than a few months when they were new.  These days it's difficult to get a N.O.S. body panel that doesn't need hours of correction work just to bolt onto a straight survivor unibody.