reasonable amount for body work?

[defiance]

Wanted to get some opinions from some of the guys with more experience with body work and shops.

What do you think I should normally end up paying for this sort of work?


Car (72 rallye) is delivered with previous not-so-good paint job,  Bondo pretty thick in a few spots, some rust bubbles, and some spots where rust is through the fenders under the paint and bondo (behind rear wheels in lower quarter for example).  Not visible, but it's there.  Surface under vinyl top was not properly prepped last time, and vinyl top is removed, SEVERE pitting and rust underneath; a few spots pinholes peeking through.  Bondo THICK across rear panel between window and trunk lid.  used, but good condition replacement piece provided to shop.  Work is done without engine/trans/driveshaft.  Car is stripped of interior, trim, bumpers, windows, etc and soda blasted to metal.  All severe rust spots are cut out and sheet metal welded re-worked into the existing panels (no replacement repops available and none is more than 10% need replacement).  Top is cleaned up and prepped to match body *without* vinyl top.  Filler is used minimally, but is necessary in areas such as the "seam" in the top.  Car is then rust treated and cured, epoxy primed, and painted.  Engine bay is cleaned and prepped, and included in paint.  Paint is gloss black with maroon metallic trim.  Trim consists of painting in door inserts, painting on red version of the bulge hood blackout, and painting on an r/t stripe.  interior/trim/etc are then reassembled.

Some "before" pics:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2324498/6


What are your thoughts about a reasonable price for that sort of work?

[AutoRust]

Wanted to get some opinions from some of the guys with more experience with body work and shops.

What do you think I should normally end up paying for this sort of work?


Car (72 rallye) is delivered with previous not-so-good paint job,  Bondo pretty thick in a few spots, some rust bubbles, and some spots where rust is through the fenders under the paint and bondo (behind rear wheels in lower quarter for example).  Not visible, but it's there.  Surface under vinyl top was not properly prepped last time, and vinyl top is removed, SEVERE pitting and rust underneath; a few spots pinholes peeking through.  Bondo THICK across rear panel between window and trunk lid.  used, but good condition replacement piece provided to shop.  Work is done without engine/trans/driveshaft.  Car is stripped of interior, trim, bumpers, windows, etc and soda blasted to metal.  All severe rust spots are cut out and sheet metal welded re-worked into the existing panels (no replacement repops available and none is more than 10% need replacement).  Top is cleaned up and prepped to match body *without* vinyl top.  Filler is used minimally, but is necessary in areas such as the "seam" in the top.  Car is then rust treated and cured, epoxy primed, and painted.  Engine bay is cleaned and prepped, and included in paint.  Paint is gloss black with maroon metallic trim.  Trim consists of painting in door inserts, painting on red version of the bulge hood blackout, and painting on an r/t stripe.  interior/trim/etc are then reassembled.

What are your thoughts about a reasonable price for that sort of work?

Are you asking about the cost to have all that work done, or just the paint work done?

[defiance]

I'm wondering what others would expect to pay, or have paid, for the whole work effort.

[AutoRust]

Ok, that helps to clarify it a bit. I wasnt sure what exactly you was asking. Thats a lot of work you have listed there.

Where are you located? Body shop rates vary a lot from one part of the country to the other. Around here to have high quality work done is over $100/hr.
One perfectionist restoration shop near me quoted a customer " $22000" to paint his 69 Charger, and that did not include metal work, but it included lots of high quality prep work, lots of block sanding, top rated materials and supplies, as well as hours and hours of preparation to the body. I have seen the guys work, its top quality show car material.
You have to decide what level of finish you want, can you accept minor flaws in not often seen areas? Or do you want 100% quality.
I tell people this all the time about paint. How close do you want to look? I am involved with a lot of stock-car racing. We can literally paint them with a broom, because they have to look good at 70 mph from 50-100 feet away. The closer you want to look, the more you have to pay.

After re-reading your post, I suspect your in the $10000+ range to have that amount of work done.
I am not a body shop, so there might be others that can chime in and define the costs better then I can.
Remember, the roof has to be done 110% correctly, as its right in front of everyone, and so visible, so a ton of time will be spent getting it correct. Thats one reason a lot of people reapply a vinyl top. Just sayin'   

[defiance]

Yeah... the shop originally quoted it at $4000, then when he saw the the roof damage, he upped it to $7500.  I had no problem with that change.  But now, it's now 2 years later, and he's saying it's going to be $13k.  Honestly, I don't doubt the amount of work, just ticks me off to have it move so much.  So now I'm just trying to reassure myself that it's a case of bad quotes rather than a case of indefinitely inflating cost...

[Mike DC]

I agree with AutoRust about the issues of paint & perfection.  But in my experience, the problem is that the customer doesn't get the choice about where these corners are cut. 

I'd love to be able to tell a body shop "Look, wavy paint and misaligned small stuff is fine because it can be fixed later.  But I absolutely want the permanent (cutting & welding) sheetmetal work in the rust repair to be PERFECT."   But it never happens that way.  They'll cut corners on the metal work or they'll do both metal & paint nicely, but you can't get anyone to do good metalwork and mediocre paintwork over it.

[mikepmcs]

With all that and the paint as well, I don't think $13k is unreasonable at all if the body shop is reputable/reliable.  For instance, we are a collision center and there are only 2 of us that do the work and paint.  
If this is a small shop with few employees that normally doesn't tackle this kind of work, blah blah....
Basically, is resto work all this body shop does?  Just something to consider if not.
Actually I think 13 is a bargain for what is listed if this is a good shop.

[hemi-hampton]

$13,000 sounds like a steal or good price, as long as it's not total garbage Earl Scheib or Maaco work (No insult to Earl Scheib or Maaco intended) You get what you pay for & $13k you can spend at my shop in 8 weeks or less easy. I just did a similar job (but more involved) hourly for $30,000.  LEON.

[jerry]

for 1 thing you can't get even ball park prices from anyone without seeing car. before i would spend that kind of money on a car like that i would find a nicer body to start with.

[mikepmcs]

I agree with the ball park statement but.... here is my input to that and I'm definitely not trying to start anything here...  quality bodywork on even a "nicer body"  and the paint work after that would easily reach in the 13+ range IMHO.   I maintain this is a bargain for everything that he has listed that the body shop is willing to do sans the tin work and squirting the car.

v/r
Mike

[hemi-hampton]

Ask him where the extra $5,500 came from. Fact is most people that quote you $4,000 really have no clue what it takes, how much time it takes to get it done, They then realize this as they are halfway thru your car & then realize they quoted way to low because they dont know what the hell they are doing. If they did they would of never quoted you the $4k from the start. Probably could of bondo'd up a Earl Scheiber car job for $4k but is that what you wanted? Seems to me with all the body shops competing with each other they'll tell you what you want to hear to land the job. Just my opinion. LEON.

[Sweet T]

Look at the big picture...are you planning on keeping the car forever?  It doesn't take long to rack up 10 or 15 if you have to get into quarter and  rocker replacement.  I went for a little guy just getting  out on his own but with lots of experience.  Anything quality for under 10 is probably a dream.  The big name guy in the neighbourhood is not always the guy to go to, get references at car shows, that is how I found my bodyguy.

[defiance]

I got this guy from car show references, but none of them were classics.  The shop didn't specialize in restorations at all.  Keep in mind, at the time, *I* didn't really know what I was doing either as far as body work goes; it was my assumption that good body work is good body work, regardless of the era of car.  I realize now that older vehicles have a unique set of rust-related problems. 

Anyway, the guy freely admits he completely screwed up the first estimate, and that he didn't realize how difficult it was going to be to completely take care of the rust issues, especially in the roof.  Also of note is that his main body guy recently quit, and he hired a replacement that previously worked at a very reputable restoration shop - the revised estimate came very shortly after that.  It's my belief that the new guy drew from his experience at his previous shop to get the estimate changed.  The head guy is also saying he's reducing the per hour rate quite a bit because his initial rate was so wrong...  so all things considered, it all seems valid.

As for getting a better body to start with, rust under a vinyl top is almost universal from my understanding, and if you look at the rest of the body, it was really not in bad shape for a starter car.  The only way I could reasonably expect to get a better body to start with would be to find one already restored   Plus, at this point, nearly $10k worth of work has been done already, so my decision is to finish it off or abandon it, and at this point there's no way it would be worth saving $3k to abandon it!  I really just want to reassure myself that the work is worth it.  From what you guys are saying, it's VERY worth it.

[hemi-hampton]

From what you just said it pretty much means my explanation was right one. I'd say you brought it to the wrong place. I'd also say you can probably expect them to up the price again. I'm confused on that part about changing the hourly rate? Thought they quoted you a price, now they are charging you hourly? which is it? if hourly how much hourly. LEON.

[daytonalo]

When a car comes in I say this , YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING TO FIND UNTIL IT IS IN BARE METAL ! I gave a price one time to finish a car , I lost money on resto , but I still never cut a corner on it

[Rob R]

That was a VERY optimistic est at 150 hours to do the car...even at 250 hours there's going to have to be some corner cutting...that leaves very little for materials (even sub par materials)...$7500 and you get what you pay for at $13000(250 hours) you'll get something that will look good for a couple of years .I would hope.

[Mike DC]

One thing you could do is have the car media blasted yourself before you take it somewhere. 

Blasting the whole car body may be too problematic.  It has to be recoated very quickly afterwards (you can't shop the car around for a couple weeks while it's uncoated).  And the best way to do it is to disassemble the whole car.  But it's something to consider. 

Or you could maybe have the blaster do a smaller job.  Leave the car assembled, leave 70% of the old paint still on it, and just clear the areas that you assume will turn up the most severe rust.  If you have to, you can rattle-can some sealer over the bare areas later until the shop gets going on it. 


My point is that several hundred bucks extra spent at a media blaster beforehand (even if this is not gonna be the last time the car will get blasted) may save several thousand in the whole process.  If you reveal the bare metal then the rust situation suddenly becomes much more transparent.  Much less room for haggling and bad estimations on both sides of the table.