Anybody watching B-J auction in Vegas?

[Hemidoug]

Man prices have dropped! I saw a 69 SS RS Camaro 'vert go for 31K....A 66 'Vette coupe 327 4 spd for 38K.....Those cars would have been north of 60K a few years ago.....I wonder how the Mopars are doing?

[Back N Black]

I have been watching and i agree, the market has dropped. Great time to be a buyer.

[Chad L. Magee]

I was watching it off and on last night.  There was some good deals there due to the market (I liked the Bently/RR for the price it went for).  The huge 3-wheeler took forever to sell and went for less than what it would take to build it today (or what it probably cost twenty years ago adjusting for inflation).  If it was me that bought it, I would have pulled the KB Hemi for a car project and dumped in another engine for reselling.  I think that is the lesson to be learned here is: don't expect every custom project to make money at B-J.  Remember, this is not the big show for B-J, so the stuff at Las Vegas will not come close to the money that they have at the Jan. auction.  The market has gone down some, but there are cars that are still high there...........

[Ghoste]

Big show or no, it's still a "no reserve" auction I believe.  I wonder how many of those sales are actually people buying their own cars back?

[The70RT]

Last night a rotissorie restored 68 R/T Charger went for just over 50K....53 or 4 I believe. It was a 440 4spd. Red with red interior. It had 85,000 miles on it.

[2much2learn]

54k??!!!!  DAMN!!! i knew i should of bid one more time!

[472 R/T SE]

Last night a rotissorie restored 68 R/T Charger went for just over 50K....53 or 4 I believe. It was a 440 4spd. Red with red interior. It had 85,000 miles on it.

Non matching drivetrain at that.  Beautiful car, I really like 'em all one color like that.


My buddy is there again this year trying to peddle a 429 SCJ Mustang he recently restored:  http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/search/carlist_Details.aspx?&In_LotNumber=529

[BigBlackDodge]

Yawn..............

List of tonights cars.

Camaro
Mustang
Chevelle
Camaro
55-57 Chevy..........take your pick.
Camaro
48' Caddy
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Chevelle
Impala
Camaro
55-57 Chevy..........take your pick.
Camaro
48' Caddy
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Chevelle
Impala
..etc


Where are the mopars at?


BBD

[The70RT]

Last night a rotissorie restored 68 R/T Charger went for just over 50K....53 or 4 I believe. It was a 440 4spd. Red with red interior. It had 85,000 miles on it.

Non matching drivetrain at that.  Beautiful car, I really like 'em all one color like that.


My buddy is there again this year trying to peddle a 429 SCJ Mustang he recently restored:  http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/search/carlist_Details.aspx?&In_LotNumber=529

One like your buddy's just went for 50K. Yellow with red interior  Vinyl tops look funny on them to me.

[472 R/T SE]

He's got that in it so I'm pretty sure he's sweatin'.  Vinyl top and red interior.  Wow.

[rusty lee]

Yeah I'd thought the Evel Knievel bike would have sold for more.

[CharcoalCharger]

Yawn..............

List of tonights cars.

Camaro
Mustang
Chevelle
Camaro
55-57 Chevy..........take your pick.
Camaro
48' Caddy
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Chevelle
Impala
Camaro
55-57 Chevy..........take your pick.
Camaro
48' Caddy
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Chevelle
Impala
..etc


Where are the mopars at?


BBD

B/J is saving them for later in the weekend when the Big Buck Cars get auctioned off!   

[The70RT]

Last night this one went for 54K - A real 67 Hemi RT Coronet, looked like a twin to the one Mike pmcs got a couple weeks ago.

[Hemidoug]

Last night this one went for 54K - A real 67 Hemi RT Coronet, looked like a twin to the one Mike pmcs got a couple weeks ago.

ether someone got a real deal or someone else was real pissed......

Just goes to show how inflated the market was....this will chase away the Johny come latelys and allow the real car guys a chance back in......I just hope it doesn't affect the repop market. We finally have some quality parts coming to market in large part do to the price bubble....

[The70RT]

Last night this one went for 54K - A real 67 Hemi RT Coronet, looked like a twin to the one Mike pmcs got a couple weeks ago.

ether someone got a real deal or someone else was real pissed......

Just goes to show how inflated the market was....this will chase away the Johny come latelys and allow the real car guys a chance back in......I just hope it doesn't affect the repop market. We finally have some quality parts coming to market in large part do to the price bubble....

Yeah I hear ya, I bet the seller just wishes he would have put it on eBay. With no reserve you could have a buddy buy it but the fees on both would suck.

[Ghoste]

The other possibilty is that no one bid too high on it at all and the seller bought his own car back.  It happens not all that infrequently with no reserve.

[Chris G.]

The other possibilty is that no one bid too high on it at all and the seller bought his own car back.  It happens not all that infrequently with no reserve.

I always wondered how that saved the seller from losing on the car. I mean in reality, say someone bought a car for 30K, then spent 120K on a resto, then decides to auction the car and it reaches 80K and the seller decides he can't let go of it for that little so he buys it back. Now he is over 230K into the car. Does he really think prices will get so inflated down the road that he believes sooner or later he will make some money off the car? 

[firefighter3931]

I always wondered how that saved the seller from losing on the car. I mean in reality, say someone bought a car for 30K, then spent 120K on a resto, then decides to auction the car and it reaches 80K and the seller decides he can't let go of it for that little so he buys it back. Now he is over 230K into the car. Does he really think prices will get so inflated down the road that he believes sooner or later he will make some money off the car? 

If the seller is buying the car from himself, he's only out the commission fees from BJ 

Of couse BJ's comissions are rediculous but that's the chance you take with a no reserve auction. 

It's obvious BJ doesn't give a Rats Azz about the seller as long as they get their cut....not a snowballs chance in hell i would ever consider selling anything at a No Reserve auction. The only winner is the Auction house....they get their cut no matter how much the car sells for....and healthy commissions (18%) at that. 



Ron

[The70RT]

So at 18% you would lose almost 10K on a 50K car. I don't think too many are bidding on thier own at that cost. There is sellers and buyer fees, so would you get hit for both? if so you would really be losing your a$$

[firefighter3931]

So at 18% you would lose almost 10K on a 50K car. I don't think too many are bidding on thier own at that cost. There is sellers and buyer fees, so would you get hit for both? if so you would really be losing your a$$

Yes, you would get hit with both fees because you're selling and buying your own car back....nice huh ? 

The seller fee is 10% and the buyer fee is 8% and i'm sure there are some taxes involved. 

So who really wins in a No Reserve Auction when the seller is forced to buy back his own car because he's upside down on it ? 


FWIW, a buddy was considering selling one of his cars at BJ but declined when they decided to go No Reserve a few years back. He was also informed by the fine folks at BJ that if his car sold (which is automatic with that type of auction) that his cash would be held for 6 months in trust (by them). That seemed rather ludicrous to me (and him) and when you factor in the rediculously high comission and no ability to protect yourself with a reserve.....it's obvious the only winner is BJ or perhaps some lucker buyer who gets a great deal as a result of a soft market. 


Ron

[Chris G.]

If the seller is buying the car from himself, he's only out the commission fees from BJ 

Ron, is that true? Doesn't the owner actually have to bid on the car to buy it back? If what you say is how they do things, then I could sit and basically shill bid on my car and not worry about plunking down any cash (other than commission fees) for it.

If the owner doesn't get charged for buying it back, then there truly is a reserve on the car...right??? 

[Ghoste]

Chris, trust me, it happens a fair bit.  I realize what you're saying about the math, but let's assume you had the coin to tie up 200k in a car in the first place.  Now, you decide you want a new bauble to impress your friends on the garage floor so you put the car up for auction.  It's a no reserve auction and the car only bids to 30k, you have your 22k tied up in it and obviously you aren't going to let it go for 30 so what do you do?  Easy, you bid 31 and bite the bullet.
I see it many times each year.

[Hemidoug]

WOW! I just saw a nice 68 Shelby GT500 go for 80K.... That would have been a 140K car 2 years ago....

[Hemidoug]

69 1/2 M code bee went for 65K.....I'm seeing a 30-40% hit across the boards.....

[charge-it]

My good friend owned that 67 Hemi Coronet and sold it to the guy that sold it at B-J. My buddy sold it for a whole lot more than it went for at B-J and that was not that long ago...The guy took a royal beating on that car if it did indeed sell for that price.

[BigBlockSam]

I'm seeing a 30-40% hit across the boards..... scratchchin

i agree . maybe now , regular people can get the car of there dreams . 

i've been chasing a bird my whole life . maybe now i can afford one.   

[The70RT]

Yep some are loosing on some of these. I know this ones a chevy but thought I would share. This guy is a local guy in the area. He is like 70 years old. Anyway I seen him at a car show and sit by him for a couple hours. He said he had 100K in the car. It sold for 55K. It took him 13 years to build it. 

[RECHRGD]

It seems like the hemi cars have lost some of their magic.  I saw a beautiful hemi Road Runner go for 75k and run of the mill Chevelles went for more.

[Ghoste]

Remember when we all built cars because it was fun, not as an investment?  Oh wait, I still do.

[Hemidoug]

It seems like the hemi cars have lost some of their magic.  I saw a beautiful hemi Road Runner go for 75k and run of the mill Chevelles went for more.

I was thinking the same thing, but I saw a few LS1 Chevells going for less then they have in the past....Chevy's version of a hemi charger. I see a lot of customs going for big $$$$$ but it's hit and miss. It all depends on the buyers I guess....

[BigBlockSam]

Oh wait, I still do.

  me too  , i'd like to see alot of these people who only see these cars as money  go away . i hear  gold is hot rite now . go buy and sell that . leave this hobby to people that luv the cars.

[69_500]

Without the high dollar investors dumping money into the hobby in recent years we would still be without many reproductions parts that we now have. Granted I like seeing the little guy wind up with a car of his dreams rather than a multi millionaire, but that is just me. I do like going to the auctions too though just to view the many cars that are crossing the lines. I think that the prices are coming back down to reality. As many investors are liquidating their fleets of cars to get cash to then turn around and put it into the stock market right now, as some stocks are at or near all time lows. If you had cash and could sit it out, you'd make a killing once the market turns the corner. And when it does those same people will part with the stocks, get cash again and buy more cars than they have right now. Its a vicious cycle but it does happen. Happened in 1987-89, again in the late 90's and then again in 2005-07. It will come around again.

[Hemidoug]

Without the high dollar investors dumping money into the hobby in recent years we would still be without many reproductions parts that we now have. Granted I like seeing the little guy wind up with a car of his dreams rather than a multi millionaire, but that is just me. I do like going to the auctions too though just to view the many cars that are crossing the lines. I think that the prices are coming back down to reality. As many investors are liquidating their fleets of cars to get cash to then turn around and put it into the stock market right now, as some stocks are at or near all time lows. If you had cash and could sit it out, you'd make a killing once the market turns the corner. And when it does those same people will part with the stocks, get cash again and buy more cars than they have right now. Its a vicious cycle but it does happen. Happened in 1987-89, again in the late 90's and then again in 2005-07. It will come around again.

EXACTLY...I've said it time and time again.....now is the time to shop before the next cycle. I think muscle cars will always be going through this. These cars seem to transcend generational limits. I see the excitement in the eyes of 10 year olds when they see my car. I've never seen that when one is looking at say a 52 Desoto. The attraction to the classic American muscle car will never diminish.

[BigBlockSam]

like going to the auctions

i like that too . i hope the hobby gets stronger and stronger . people that dig these cars will always be restoring them and paying big bucks for the car they want .

[Ghoste]

I agree with you Danny about the reproduction parts 100%, it is our Catch-22 in the hobby.  I really don't begrudge the investment part of the car hobby as it might seem sometimes.  I have formed a few strong opinions about it that I'll keep to myself for now but I will add that the last musclecar inflation irked me more than a little.  It was an artificial bubble being fueled by a number of factors and I can't pretend to be enough of an economist to explain but all the same, a lot of them appeared to be pretty obvious so I wasn't too sorry to see the prices coming racing back down and leave a lot folks holding the bills for cars they never really wanted.  No easy answers.

[69_500]

Well I mean its not like there weren't people who were into the hobby 25 years ago just to make a buck either. I know of plenty of guys who have had tons of cars over the years, and they have always been out looking for the better deal so they can make a little coin. Which I can't say that I'd blame them when I sit back and think about all of the nice pieces of iron that they have had over the years, but then it does also make me smile from ear to ear when I hear about a guy who has always wanted say a 1969 Charger 500 but doesn't have a ton of money but somehow manages to pick one up. Like was recently done by a member of this site. Things like that make me a ton happier than hearing that someone who has the money happens to pick up a HEMI Cuda or the likes.

[BigBlockSam]

does also make me smile from ear to ear when I hear about a guy who has always wanted say a 1969 Charger 500 but doesn't have a ton of money but somehow manages to pick one up. Like was recently done by a member of this site. Things like that make me a ton happier than hearing that someone who has the money happens to pick up a HEMI Cuda or the likes

  me too 

[68charger383]

I high end stuff seems like it is gone down...but the mid stuff, 340 Cudas and 70 RR still seem to be pulling in the big cash. 

[moparstuart]

I high end stuff seems like it is gone down...but the mid stuff, 340 Cudas and 70 RR still seem to be pulling in the big cash. 

someone please give me big money for my 69 runner

[dkn1997]

I just got back from vegas this morning.  I spent about 5 hours at the auction on saturday.  Im a little vague on exactly what every car I saw went for because i'm not really that into the whole auction format...  It started real slow at 11am.  they were trotting out  80's mercedes coupes, etc, those went for peanuts.  for the first 2 hours, the only car to come anywhere near 40 was a numbers matching 383 69 dart gts.  I see what you are saying about prices being down, but towards the end when the more "desireable" (he says with a wink because a 383 dart is cooler than any chevelle or 57 chevy in my book...)  cars came out, they were getting a lot more than I thought.  a 55 or 56 chevy, totally modified with a modern big block, tubbed, etc went for about 100k.  there was a numbers matching 67 ss 396 malibu that got around 80k.  a couple of modified rods went for 100K also.  and there a ton of 50's t birds and mid 60's chevelles and impalas, camaros.   multiples of each one. 

So while prices were down, there were a lot of cars that surprised me.  I also saw a 69 plymouth that I cannot remember what it was. Orange and it had gtx striping/emblems on the sides, but a hinged roadrunner flat black scooped hood with 2 hoodpins in the front and a transplanted hemi.  I think they got 60-80 for that one too.  we were able to sit in back of the stage and were about 10 feet from the cars before they got onto the turntable that puts them on the stage.  some really nice stuff. 

It was great to see the cars, but the whole "auction" thing doesn't excite me at all.   hearing the auctioneer babble dadoodadadooda between the numbers.  That kind of theater is lost on me. 

The absolute joke of the day was when they rolled out one of each model of oldsmobile for the last model year.  they all were maroon and all had near zero mile on them, and all were among the last 500 olds ever produced.  Intrigue, Alero, Aurora, Bravada, Sillouette.  these things all went for about 10-15k, the definition of "rare doesn't necessarily mean desireable"  If I had a highschool kid with a fresh license, one of these would have been perfect. basically new, cheap, and probably reliable.

Overall it was a great experience.  where else am I ever going to see that much rare iron in one place? 

[BigBlockSam]

Overall it was a great experience.  where else am I ever going to see that much rare iron in one place?

  and they serve beer too   

[dodgecharger-fan]

If the seller is buying the car from himself, he's only out the commission fees from BJ 

Ron, is that true? Doesn't the owner actually have to bid on the car to buy it back? If what you say is how they do things, then I could sit and basically shill bid on my car and not worry about plunking down any cash (other than commission fees) for it.

If the owner doesn't get charged for buying it back, then there truly is a reserve on the car...right??? 

Reading this part of the thread, I get the sense that you're misunderstanding one point:
if the seller ends up buying their own car back, they are not paying B-J the winning bid price. They are paying themselves because they are both the buyer and the seller. I don't think they actually have to cut the cheque, but if they do, it all nets out in the end. The only thing that needs to be covered beyond that are the commissions.

I just saw that while reading and thought I'd jump in to clarify.

I do have a question for the guys that have been through this (or avoided it) though: if you buy back your own car, do they still keep our money for 6 months?