Military Topic

[Drache]

Ok I have a question for the Military Guys (Canadian Mostly). What is the difference between applying as an Officer and Non Commissioned?

As most know I recently applied to the Canadian Armed Forces. I wasn't excepted this year due to my epilepsy though. They want me to wait until the spring to see what happens (Im "cured" and off my meds). Anyways during the interview the Captain told me that I scored so high on my aptitude test that I qualified for almost all the Officer "jobs" such as Infantry Officer (but not MP officer or other jobs you need experience for). I was told that I should reapply in the spring for an Officer's Job instead of the Non-commissioned jobs I was going after before.

So what is the difference and when I do reapply in the spring should I apply for an Officer?  Granted the money is better but is it worth it to be the Officer. I always thought of myself as a grunt.... 

[ACUDANUT]

GO as a Commissioned Officer.  Better Pay, Benefits, jobs, everyone below you kisses your ass and in the evening, you get lots of T and A_ _.

[Magnumcharger]

My wife and I are both in the Canadian Forces.
She's an Army Officer, I'm an Airforce NCM.

Basically the difference is: the Officers are the managers, and the NCMs are the workers. The pay levels are vastly different, corrolating to the amount of responsibility accorded to the rank.
In other words, she makes more than me, despite the fact that I've been in four times as long as her.

Keep in mind, if you really have the aptitude you say you do, you wouldn't be thinking about Infantry....in any capacity. If you do, consider that you'll be away from home for most of the time, and living in a tent. Which sounds good, until you're in Suffield, or Wainwright Alberta, (or Petawawa, or Gagetown) on winter exercise, in the middle of a -45 degree day, getting snowed on - for the umpteenth hundreth time. That's the Canadian Army.
Not bad when you're twenty years old and single. But that will change.

All the money in the world won't be enough.
(Yeah, I'm Airforce).

[dodgecharger-fan]

or Wainwright Alberta,

My sister used to live in Wainwright. Worked on the base too.
Dated a British guy for a while - his job was as a British Liaison Officer.

Yeah, they had t-shirts made up... my brother printed them.

[Back N Black]

Officer is the way to go, WRT pension and better pay. The big difference is officers go to Military collage in Kingston and NCM's are tradesmen, depends what your intrested in?
Maybe you can become a young Officer and work with a crusty old Sargent like me. That way i can mould you. 

[Magnumcharger]

I was watching the clock Eldon....it didn't take very long for you to chime in!!

[Back N Black]

I was watching the clock Eldon....it didn't take very long for you to chime in!!

What are you doing watching the clock? you suppose to be working. See, you setting a bad example for the young lad already 

[Magnumcharger]

Well, lets not even mention the fact that I'm using the work computer to do my posting!

[mikepmcs]

Do ya'll need a degree to be a "Zero" up there?

[Drache]

no you just need to score very high on your aptitude tests. Of course you still have to do all the military schooling after that though....

[Magnumcharger]

Well, that's partially correct.
There are various ways to become an Officer.
First, there's DEO - Direct entry officer - yes, you'll need a degree.
Second, joining ROTP -Regular officer training plan, whereupon you'll likely have to go to RMC. Upside: free education and degree. Downside: you have to commit to several years of obligitory service, not to mention getting paid diddly squat while you're in school.
Lastly, there's commisioning from the ranks (UTPNCM -university training plan). Join as an NCM, work your way up to MCpl, then apply for the annual competitions. Upside: you're already in the military, making a reasonable living, and you keep your pay level while going to school. Downside: it takes a lot of effort to get accepted for this plan, and then there's the committing to obligitory service.

[mikepmcs]

That's what I thought, not that much different and the US has similar programs as well.
Kyle, do you have a degree is my next question?

v/r
Mike

[Drache]

That's what I thought, not that much different and the US has similar programs as well.
Kyle, do you have a degree is my next question?

v/r
Mike

No I do not 

[mikepmcs]

Then, be careful when you sign,...they might give you the go in as NONCOM and you can get a commission program, blah blah blah, and that is a recruiter's dream candidate. That takes some serious work and quite a bit of time and then hope you get picked up etc.....
I scored wicked high on the ASVAB myself(US entrance test) don't get fooled.  I knew I was going enlisted right off the get go.  Make sure you know what you want and then go from there.

[Drache]

Then, be careful when you sign,...they might give you the go in as NONCOM and you can get a commission program, blah blah blah, and that is a recruiter's dream candidate. That takes some serious work and quite a bit of time and then hope you get picked up etc.....
I scored wicked high on the ASVAB myself(US entrance test) don't get fooled.  I knew I was going enlisted right off the get go.  Make sure you know what you want and then go from there.

Im a grunt plain and simple. Thats what I originally signed on for and that's what I'll stick with!

[Back N Black]

Then, be careful when you sign,...they might give you the go in as NONCOM and you can get a commission program, blah blah blah, and that is a recruiter's dream candidate. That takes some serious work and quite a bit of time and then hope you get picked up etc.....
I scored wicked high on the ASVAB myself(US entrance test) don't get fooled.  I knew I was going enlisted right off the get go.  Make sure you know what you want and then go from there.

Im a grunt plain and simple. Thats what I originally signed on for and that's what I'll stick with!

There is allot of good trades in the Military, but if you want to be a Grunt? Just make sure you know what it entails, not what they show you in the video. Physical training every morning, running 10 to 12 Km, or Rucksack marches with all you gear for 13-15 Km. Then you get a shower and start you daily training. Thats if you in garrison (on Base). If you in the field, you will get maybe 3 or 4 hours sleep a night. sleeping on the ground. " If its not raining were not training". Plus all the over seas tours. Just my 

[Drache]

Then, be careful when you sign,...they might give you the go in as NONCOM and you can get a commission program, blah blah blah, and that is a recruiter's dream candidate. That takes some serious work and quite a bit of time and then hope you get picked up etc.....
I scored wicked high on the ASVAB myself(US entrance test) don't get fooled.  I knew I was going enlisted right off the get go.  Make sure you know what you want and then go from there.

Im a grunt plain and simple. Thats what I originally signed on for and that's what I'll stick with!

There is allot of good trades in the Military, but if you want to be a Grunt? Just make sure you know what it entails, not what they show you in the video. Physical training every morning, running 10 to 12 Km, or Rucksack marches with all you gear for 13-15 Km. Then you get a shower and start you daily training. Thats if you in garrison (on Base). If you in the field, you will get maybe 3 or 4 hours sleep a night. sleeping on the ground. " If its not raining were not training". Plus all the over seas tours. Just my 

Yeah I know the real stuff and not just the glorified videos. Ive got a couple friends who are grunts.

[Magnumcharger]

If being a grunt is your goal, well good luck. Start running now....by the time you get to basic training it won't be that much of a shock to your system.
Oh yeah, start doing situps and pushups too. 30 is the goal for each (for basic).

FYI- I was 35 when I went through basic training (I rejoined after being out), and I made it. 

But the training for the infanteers goes a lot further than what they gave us in St.Jean.

[Drache]

If being a grunt is your goal, well good luck. Start running now....by the time you get to basic training it won't be that much of a shock to your system.
Oh yeah, start doing situps and pushups too. 30 is the goal for each (for basic).

FYI- I was 35 when I went through basic training (I rejoined after being out), and I made it. 

But the training for the infanteers goes a lot further than what they gave us in St.Jean.

Yeah I was told all that as well! Im currently working on the running and pushups and pullups. Situps I can do all day long with breaking a sweat.

[hemi68charger]

(Yeah, I'm Airforce).

20+ US Air Force myself..................  Landed for a short little stay over at Goose Bay once..............

[ACUDANUT]

IMO, you should join the US Marines.  You DO NOT have to be a US Citizen Either.  You WILL BE world respected and you will not join a finer more elite Infantry in the world.
THE FEW, THE PROUD. THE MARINES.
www.marines.com

[Back N Black]

IMO, you should join the US Marines.  You DO NOT have to be a US Citizen Either.  You WILL BE world respected and you will not join a finer more elite Infantry in the world.
THE FEW, THE PROUD. THE MARINES.
www.marines.com

IMO you should join the Canadian Military. YOU WILL BE world respected and you will not join a finer more elite Infantry in the world. 

BTW i have been on execrise with the Marines.

[Steve P.]

In my opinion you are out of your mind..

Let me say that when I first started reading this I was biting my lip.

From my experience with the US NAVY.

1) Unless you cannot spell your own name as it is on your birth certificate, you will score very high. This is what recruiters alllllllllllways tell you to make you feel good and get you to follow their lead. 

2a) When I was in many moons ago, you started out as an enlisted man, E-1. That's the lowest rate and pay grade. Pass your tests in boot camp and became E-2.

2b) Unless you joined up and went into the nuke field you could not join as a NON-COM. (Non Commissioned Officer).

2c) If you had college under your belt you could test and go into OCS, (Officers Candidate School).

3) As an officer you join your unit as the lowest form of scum in the Officers Pond. It doesn't take very long to become welcomed and respected if you don't forget you are HUMAN... BUT,,,, forget that you ARE IN FACT A HUMAN and your enlisted personnel will let you know the hard way.... This is NOT something you want.

4) You should absolutely speak with people you know and trust that are in or have been in the service BEFORE you sign ANYTHING..

:::: Side note ::::  Do you know what NAVY stands for??  Never Again Volunteer Yourself...

Now don't get me wrong. I love my country and will fight to the finish for it. My patriotism goes very far. BUT,,,, the playing field is not flat. Recruiters will tell you anything and everything they think you need to hear to get you to join and sign for as many years as they can.. They will do whatever they can to tell you that YOU DON'T NEED AN "A" SCHOOL.. Well, shit in one hand and put what they say in the other and your end result will be nothing but SHIT IN YOUR HAND.  You go in there and tell them you will only join to be a doctor or a lawyer or something that takes some hard schooling. NEVER walk in and tell them (I WANT TO BE A GRUNT)... NEVER..........   


In a nut shell I would tell you to go to school and get an education before you put your life on the line in a ditch.  And remember that more BILLY BAD ASSES come home in a bag than the dumbest of officers.

I do think it's great that you are willing to join up and stand a post. I just hope you also have YOU in mind.

[Drache]

In my opinion you are out of your mind..

Let me say that when I first started reading this I was biting my lip.

From my experience with the US NAVY.

1) Unless you cannot spell your own name as it is on your birth certificate, you will score very high. This is what recruiters alllllllllllways tell you to make you feel good and get you to follow their lead. 

2a) When I was in many moons ago, you started out as an enlisted man, E-1. That's the lowest rate and pay grade. Pass your tests in boot camp and became E-2.

2b) Unless you joined up and went into the nuke field you could not join as a NON-COM. (Non Commissioned Officer).

2c) If you had college under your belt you could test and go into OCS, (Officers Candidate School).

3) As an officer you join your unit as the lowest form of scum in the Officers Pond. It doesn't take very long to become welcomed and respected if you don't forget you are HUMAN... BUT,,,, forget that you ARE IN FACT A HUMAN and your enlisted personnel will let you know the hard way.... This is NOT something you want.

4) You should absolutely speak with people you know and trust that are in or have been in the service BEFORE you sign ANYTHING..

:::: Side note ::::  Do you know what NAVY stands for??  Never Again Volunteer Yourself...

Now don't get me wrong. I love my country and will fight to the finish for it. My patriotism goes very far. BUT,,,, the playing field is not flat. Recruiters will tell you anything and everything they think you need to hear to get you to join and sign for as many years as they can.. They will do whatever they can to tell you that YOU DON'T NEED AN "A" SCHOOL.. Well, shit in one hand and put what they say in the other and your end result will be nothing but SHIT IN YOUR HAND.  You go in there and tell them you will only join to be a doctor or a lawyer or something that takes some hard schooling. NEVER walk in and tell them (I WANT TO BE A GRUNT)... NEVER..........   


In a nut shell I would tell you to go to school and get an education before you put your life on the line in a ditch.  And remember that more BILLY BAD ASSES come home in a bag than the dumbest of officers.

I do think it's great that you are willing to join up and stand a post. I just hope you also have YOU in mind.

In the Canadian Military you sign up for either A)Officer or B) Non Commissioned Member, those are the only two choices worded exactly like that. As for scoring high on the aptitude test I was the only one in the group of 5 who was told to go back and reapply as an Officer. These guys weren't recruiters, I had already signed up on my own, they were ONLY there to run the tests and interview us and do our physicals. If I do go back and sign up for Officer then yes I will have to go through 7 years I think it is of Officer training. It was after much thinking like I stated before that I was going to stay with NCM.

[Steve P.]

When I was young time went by slowly. Now that I am in my mid life time is moving at warp speed. 7 Years reallllly isn't that long unless you are behind bars...

[moparsuebear]

The difference between an Officer and Non-Commissioned officer is easy: The Officer knows how to sign his name..... the non guy just grunts and makes an X.  (used to be that way back in the early war times!!)
My hubby is a Non-Commisioned Officer and with all his years of military training and rank, he equals a Major!!! Too bad he didn't get major pay, but I'm very proud of my Chief!!!
Personally, I think the military needs to do away with the whole thing! A Non-Commissioned guy can have as much, if not more, education as an Officer. and that's the way it was a long time ago. Enlisted dudes just signed with an X and had no education. But it's not the same anymore. Oh well, just my 2 cents.
Funny story though if you got time to read: Years ago, when we were stationed in Okinawa, the officers had blue stickers on their cars to distinuguish them from us commoners, the enlisted. Well, if a blue officer car came through the gate, the gate guard had to salute the car. Of course, being a young, immature military wife I felt bad they never saluted us. We bought a car from friends who happened to be an officer and for about 3-4 months, before we got a chance to change the base sticker, every time I came through the gate, I would get saluted. Let me tell you, that made me feel so proud and snobbish! i'd look at the cars behind me, making sure they saw that salute, like I was an officer or something. Man, it went straight to my head!!!
I know better now!!

[Rolling_Thunder]

looking into the USAF myself...      was going marines but decided on the air force instead...    looking to go pararescue

[Magnumcharger]

Kyle,
I wish you the best of luck.
Here's a couple of points to pass along:
If you do enlist, it is definitely to your advantage to try and obtain a military occupation that gives you training in some trade that you can eventually use when you leave the military, and rejoin the civilian workforce.
There's nothing sadder than seeing somebody have to take a job as a Walmart greeter, or settling for a "McJob" after years of proud service to their country.
(I know...I got out in 1990.....and worked as a farm labourer).
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of civilian occupations that directly corrolate to infantry training. This is exactly why I reenlisted in the Airforce.
I rejoined as an aircraft mechanic which definately gave me some post-military options. However, after a few years of doing that (and being in my 40's) I realized it was going to be too hard on my old body (yes, even aircraft mechanics have to work outside in -40C weather). Which is why I went to my current occupation in Non-destructive testing. It is also one of the only CF military occupations where I certify with civilian tickets, on the job.

(BTW: this is my post #1968....cool)