hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[maxwellwedge]

Look at those hands......Geno, that looks like Olga at the border!

[hemigeno]

Olga had a figure that more closely resembled an outline of the display shelves to the left of FeverGirl.

Do you think you'll make it this year, Jim?  Bringing any one of your cool rides along with you?  

[nascarxx29]

Congrats on the completing of daytonas restoration

[Big Bird]

great news, will look for u @ bldg. T next week

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Yeah buddy! 

[gtx6970]

I call shotgun

[hemigeno]

Thanks, everybody - I'm pretty stoked about finally getting things wrapped up.  There will probably still be a few details that get worked on after having it thoroughly looked over while at the show, but at least everything will be all assembled again.  The day this car terrorizes the Missouri backroads again may have to wait a while longer to come, but it'll be driveable again for the first time since 1977.

While I'm posting up here, I'll go ahead and add the latest pictures.  These were taken Tuesday, and a lot of things have changed even since these photos were snapped.  We didn't lower the car on the hoist, so I don't have any pictures of what they're working out on the topside.  These are all things that had been discussed before or were waiting for the chance to get parts replated, etc.

The first pic is one of the adjusting block.  We've been told these should be silver, however the metal itself was a heat-treated steel which is normally dark when it's fresh.  Vance doesn't know what to do yet with this item, which is a common theme with a lot of the remaining "issues".  If anything, he thinks they may have phosphate coated it - but he doesn't remember them being silver (either cad or zinc).  We talked about it, which is why I snapped the picture. 

In the second picture you can see that the thick washers used with the transmission crossmember mounting bolts are now silver cad - which was expertly pointed out by Jim/maxwellwedge.  I was able to confirm Jim's advice when looking at another low mileage original car, and Vance nailed the right look.

The third and fourth picture show differences in the tie rod end clamps.  Just because you get "NOS" parts does not mean they're automatically correct.  One set of clamps is really "thick" and leaves very little of the bolt showing, whereas the other clamp profile is "thinner" and has more bolt threads showing beyond the nut.  Vance also had to source the correct nuts with the locking insert, because the nuts that came with the adjusting sleeve were from a different period. 

[hemigeno]

Vance and I spent a lot of time looking at clips & fasteners while I was there.  In the first two pictures, you can see an original, assembly line vapor separator setup such as would have been used on this car.  This is how he patterned the setup for my engine.  In the second picture you can see a better shot of the stampings that are present on original "Keystone" clamps.  Vance scrounged around in his incredible stash of fasteners and found some of these very clamps.  He also had some nice original rubber fuel line with the inkstamps still intact, part of which is shown in the third photo.

Oh, and the fan belt dangling in the last photo is not the one we'll use on the car.  That's one of the Quanta "rubber band" belts that will roll over and/or fly off the pulleys at engine speeds over about 3500rpm.  I have an OEM 2806216 belt with that same look to use - and those (thankfully) don't stretch.

[Richard Cranium]

Both you and Mopar John get a round of applause from me. Although I won't be going through as great of detail that you two are, the information and pictures you post are invaluable to me and help my project greatly.  

[hemigeno]

These two are of the correct saddle muffler clamps.  We had Q-clamps on the tailpipe extensions for a while, but research shows that (despite what the factory's engineering graphics say is allowable) most cars from this period used regular saddle-style clamps at the muffler and chrome tips.  These have the correct nuts, and original clamps can usually be distinguished by a tell-tale bend of metal where some machining or toolwork was done.

[hemigeno]

Both you and Mopar John get a round of applause from me. Although I won't be going through as great of detail that you two are, the information and pictures you post are invaluable to me and help my project greatly.  

Thanks, Mark - glad to help out.  I won't speak for John of course, but I wouldn't encourage people to go to this much trouble on little details... not because I'd like to limit the number of such cars, but because it'll drive you absolutely NUTS!    

[hemigeno]

Vance had some different engine mount bolts in the car for a while, and those were questioned.  As part of going through the bottomside of the car, correctly plated hardware was swapped out - part of which you can see in the first picture.

The second picture shows the roll pins inserted in the strut rods, along with those really nicely colored-up retainers that Bill Allphin scored for me - thanks again, Bill!

In the third picture you can see transmission bolt hardware that has been detailed & installed.  Vance sent quite a bit of this type stuff off to be plated, including black phosphate like you see here - a very common treatment for Chrysler's fasteners & hardware.

[hemigeno]

One of the things we were questioned about was our spring clamps.  Some have stated that the clamps did not have any stampings on them, however Vance pulled out several clamps from his arsenal of original parts that had stampings as you can see in the first two pictures.  The smaller clamps read "A30", and the larger ones read "A34".

In the last picture, you can see the original clamp we used along with a really nice original lower radiator hose that Paul Jacobs helped to detail/freshen up.

Also somewhat visible in that last picture is the oil filter.  We've had some interesting discussions recently about those.  Some contend that the filters were not installed on the engine when it was painted, whereas others say that either the filter was installed, or a rather precise cover was used to shield the adapter's oil filter threads and some of the mating surfaces ONLY up to where the rubber ring fits against the adapter's machined surface.  The latter position makes the most sense to Vance, and he tends to think the filters were installed rather than a shield/cover.  He points to paint evidence (from original engines) on the adapter's machined surface, right to where the oil filter's rubber gasket would mate.  This is one of those details that we may end up agreeing to disagree with some folks who hold a differing opinion.  It doesn't make sense that Chrysler would bother too much shielding an oil filter from receiving paint, when it was a disposable/wear item anyway.  I have two other "assembly line" filters sitting on the shelf, so I could change one out to suit the judges - however that not only makes a mess on a freshly-detailed engine & K-frame, but I tend to agree with Vance's position anyway.

[hemigeno]

Vance and I spent some time talking about, of all things, valve stems & caps.  Years ago I remember reading some spirited exchanges on Moparts.com between some of the A12 guys about what was correct.  The first pic shows the underside of two different lengths of valve stems themselves.  The shorter (413) Dill is correct for my car's Road Wheel application.  There are no distinguishing marks on any of the valve stems once they're installed and a tire is mounted, so I took the picture of what we're using just to show what they are.

One of the reference books we are (loosely) using states that the correct cap is a Dill "627" - which you can see in the second picture on the right.  For the record, the last picture is a bin from Vance's incredible stash of original stuff.  He noted that the correct cap found on '69s (and up) is the rounded cap with no lettering - and he has tons of them in that bin.  Just in case we take too much flack and need to do so, he's throwing a complete set of the 1968 & earlier Dill numbered caps in a box to swap out rather than take a points hit.

[hemigeno]

I took some random pictures of things Vance and his guys have been working on.  Originally, I had purchased a new set of cat whiskers (inner & outer door glass weatherstripping).  When they pulled them out a while back, they noticed the stainless strip that runs along the inner edge of the piece is noticeably thinner on the reproductions than the originals.  In the first picture, I held the reproduction piece (at the bottom) up against an original (at the top) to show the difference.  They're barely over half as big as the originals, and won't be used on this car.  I found a different supplier, and even those are not as nice as we'd like.  Vance has several originals in a box that they will try to clean & polish up before resorting to reproductions.  The original quarter glass inner weatherstripping is still actually quite nice, so the only ones that really stick out like a sore thumb are the ones that fit up against the upper door pads.  We'll only use the reproductions if none of the ones we have can be salvaged - which Vance seems to think is quite possible.

The second picture is an area we've been debating about for some time.  My car wasn't in good enough shape to use as a forensic pattern, and my K-member seal was MIA too, so we had to rely on Vance's recollections and input from David Patik as to how to handle this area as far as overspray goes.  David confirmed Vance's memories of the K-member seal having been installed when the nosecone was painted, and the brace which goes from the radiator yoke to the K-member itself got a fair amount of overspray (as did the K-member seal itself).  Vance is getting ready to do all the overspray in the engine compartment itself, so we went over this area just to make sure it was detailed right the first time.  This area will look much different in a day or two, but I took a picture to remind myself of what is yet to come.

The third picture is of the shock absorber mounting plates.  Vance had cleaned these all up, but hadn't yet installed the burn marks where the shock mounting stud was welded into place.  These are really nice, unpitted pieces which is something of a rarity to find (they came from Desert Valley A.P., which explains how they survived), but they still need just a touch more detailing work.

[hemigeno]

In the first picture, you can see that he has added the thick washers to go with the 12 point bolts used for the steering box.  The hardware has also been given the right black phos treatment too.

The second picture is a reminder of two things that need to happen... Vance was not happy with the reproduction brake lines, so they had made a much better facsimile of the originals, however at the time they didn't have the correct tall fitting at the wheel cylinder.  While I was there, we got another set of lines on the way, and if these don't suit them they'll simply cut the line to allow them to remove the tall fitting.  All they'll have to do is flatten out or remove the flared end, remove the short fitting, install the tall one, and re-flare the end.  The other thing that needs to happen is to detail the Dana axle plastic plug area.  Vance will remove paint behind the plug to mimic how the plug would have shielded the area during paint.  We've also read that either red, green or blue plastic plugs are considered correct, so we'll have the choice of using a small piece of a red one or a halfway-decent green plug that he still has in the stash of stuff.

The third photo was intended to show the front cylinder head area where the lifting bracket was attached during paint.  There would be a shadowline where this bracket was at, although you cannot see it as well once the alternator is installed.

The last picture posted for this batch shows the fender bolt hole that has not been filled.  In Vance's experience, he has seen these bolts omitted by Creative Industries' workers.  He had originally intended to leave mine out, to mimic how Chris Sauer's low-mileage Daytona was built.  My car, on the other hand, had both bolts installed as shown in some of the "before" pictures posted here and elsewhere.  As a result, I really wanted these bolts installed.  Creatives workers, at least in some of the cars, did take the time to daub black-out paint on these bolts - like the Hamtramck workers normally did.  Vance will be working on this area yet, when he has the paint gun out to do the overspray and other remaining paint detail work.

[69_500]

Wow Gene a lot has changed on the car since the last time I saw it. Then again if I'm thinking right, it has been over a year since I made the last trip up there to see the car. I had to miss out a on a few trips this year with the new found sports in my son's life.

[hemigeno]

Yeah, I'd be on sports taxi duty right now if it weren't for the fact my oldest daughter is home from college and got off work early from her job today.  I know how that goes, but your son's teams are a lot more successful than Jonathan's - so we don't go to nearly as many tournaments, etc.

I'll be a little put out if you don't stop by sometime to visit the car when it's done.  I know firsthand that you've driven all night without any sleep just to crawl through some frigid, dark, damp and dusty garage to look at the pieces of an aero car...  At least my shop has heat, good lighting and a hoist!

[69_500]

Deal, I'm fine with swinging over to your place some time to check it out once its finished. I still owe Jim a trip up to his place too. I'm waiting on Olga to retire though.

[Old Moparz]

Vance and I spent some time talking about, of all things, valve stems & caps.  Years ago I remember reading some spirited exchanges on Moparts.com between some of the A12 guys about what was correct.  The first pic shows the underside of two different lengths of valve stems themselves.  The shorter (413) Dill is correct for my car's Road Wheel application.  There are no distinguishing marks on any of the valve stems once they're installed and a tire is mounted, so I took the picture of what we're using just to show what they are.

One of the reference books we are (loosely) using states that the correct cap is a Dill "627" - which you can see in the second picture on the right.  For the record, the last picture is a bin from Vance's incredible stash of original stuff.  He noted that the correct cap found on '69s (and up) is the rounded cap with no lettering - and he has tons of them in that bin.  Just in case we take too much flack and need to do so, he's throwing a complete set of the 1968 & earlier Dill numbered caps in a box to swap out rather than take a points hit.

Gene, make sure you count the splines on the valve stem cap, some have 2 more than others & a dead give away that they are incorrect.


(Just kidding.....LOL)    

The car looks great & I can't believe the amazing amount of patience you & others have to get all these details correct. I'm looking forward to seeing the car in person.   

[hemigeno]

Gene, make sure you count the splines on the valve stem cap, some have 2 more than others & a dead give away that they are incorrect.

Y'know, say that with a straight face to the right group of people, and not only might a couple of them nod along with you as if they knew that all along, but most of them would be slinking away later to count splines for themselves... 

[Old Moparz]

Gene, make sure you count the splines on the valve stem cap, some have 2 more than others & a dead give away that they are incorrect.

Y'know, say that with a straight face to the right group of people, and not only might a couple of them nod along with you as if they knew that all along, but most of them would be slinking away later to count splines for themselves... 

I may just start a topic on the A12 forum at Moparts. 

[Aero426]

Looks great Gene and I know it will be a spectacular debut.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

The last picture posted for this batch shows the fender bolt hole that has not been filled.  In Vance's experience, he has seen these bolts omitted by Creative Industries' workers.  He had originally intended to leave mine out, to mimic how Chris Sauer's low-mileage Daytona was built.  My car, on the other hand, had both bolts installed as shown in some of the "before" pictures posted here and elsewhere.  As a result, I really wanted these bolts installed.  Creatives workers, at least in some of the cars, did take the time to daub black-out paint on these bolts - like the Hamtramck workers normally did.  Vance will be working on this area yet, when he has the paint gun out to do the overspray and other remaining paint detail work.

Gene, do you have a pic of how this area "should" look like?  Bolt black out etc

[hemigeno]

Gene, do you have a pic of how this area "should" look like?  Bolt black out etc

 

This is from Jim B.'s "DocTona" and is probably the best example I have in the ol' files.  You can actually see where the brush smeared blackout on the wheel lip moulding too.