hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemi68charger]

Hey Geno...
I see there's still part of the original seam on the bottom surface of the nose either side of the air intake opening. I take it it's supposed to be there then. If so, that makes me happy. I have those on mine as well and thought it was the paint starting to separate... Granted, it's not as smooth as yours, but alas, it's supposed to be there.

[hemigeno]

wow Geno thats lookning fantastic     

Thanks, TT - it's slowly getting there.

Hey Geno...
I see there's still part of the original seam on the bottom surface of the nose either side of the air intake opening. I take it it's supposed to be there then. If so, that makes me happy. I have those on mine as well and thought it was the paint starting to separate... Granted, it's not as smooth as yours, but alas, it's supposed to be there.

Yeah, that seam is supposed to be there.  They didn't bother leading in the seam all the way down, just low enough that the seam wouldn't show unless you were about on your knees looking for it.

[maxwellwedge]

Great questions/comments guys, keep 'em comin'!

Looks great Geno. All of my trunk hinges had that very light grey primer but there were probably different primer colors used. I don't think any 69 Positive cables had writing (part numbers) on the insulation - that was all done by 68. And you need to get Vance to route the heater hoses properly when you put on the real ones. They should cross-over each other just before or after the inner fender hose bracket. All the original (and magazine tests of the day) have them like that....the FSM shows it as well. The 2 hoses have different part numbers and it seemed the one number was always on the outside heater nipple....I'll give you those numbers after I check at home. Minor stuff.  Looks freakin' fantastico!!!  

Thanks for the comments & feedback Jim - I appreciate you taking the time to do so.  

As for the positive battery cable, wasn't there a difference in the "lower" terminal between '68 and '69?

Vance knew that the heater hose deal is a temporary situation, so my guess is he didn't worry about correct routing on something that's (hopefully) going to be yanked off in a few more days or weeks.  I'd still like to have the info on numbers, etc. if you get the chance to pass it along.


Thanks again, everyone!

Hey Geno - Positive battery cables:
68 pos...2926085 - usually had writing on the insulation with part number etc. - Had the "split" 2 wire connection at the starter

69...including A-12 and Daytona...2926754 - Had the "siamesed" connection at the starter (both wires molded together) and has no writing. Has a blue part number sticker wrapped around it. The cable # in the parts book never came on a car - it was a parts counter replacement that will function but it is not what the assembly line used.

The heater hoses - I didn't write the full numbers down but the hose beginning with the part number "15" went on the outside heater core nipple on the firewall. The other hose starts with part # "16" - it goes on the other nipple. The hoses always crossed before they got to the water pump nipples.

Hope this helps!

[moparstuart]

whats the projected finish date ?  By june I hope ?   OH and   

[69_500]

Gene the photo of the "YES" that we looked at was on Chris Sauer's  old car. I'll see if any of my photo's of the drip rail on the C pillar show the paint line your talking about, or if any of the ones I took looking down the quarter panel show the faint paint line we were looking at there as well.

[hemigeno]

Jim,

I'm going through the pictures taken this last time, and did not take a better one of the posi cable - especially the starter end/connection.    I thought it was the 69-70 molded end, but now you have me doubting.  My docs had the same 2926754 part number, and you're right, it doesn't show up in the parts book.  It also shows that for 1969 the positive cable was routed on top of the brake lines, not tucked behind it... that was a '70 thing.  Simple to change that out.

Thanks for the info on heater hoses, I'll try to confirm all that stuff when the time comes.

whats the projected finish date ?  By june I hope ?   OH and  

Thanks, Stuart!  I don't know what the finish date is, as that's a function of when some of the outstanding loose ends can be wrapped up.  Hopefully it's soon.  I have been planning to hit Branson ever since you and Larry announced the event (even have a brochure sitting on my desk at home from a resort I had planned to use for an extended stay), but there are some potential clouds on the horizon in that regard.  I'll know more in a few weeks.

[hemigeno]

Gene the photo of the "YES" that we looked at was on Chris Sauer's  old car. I'll see if any of my photo's of the drip rail on the C pillar show the paint line your talking about, or if any of the ones I took looking down the quarter panel show the faint paint line we were looking at there as well.

Thanks, Danny!

[69_500]

Okay here is the best I could do for you on the trim piece Gene. I cropped a photo quite a bit so that i didn't really have to reduce the pixel count so its possible to see the red paint on the chrome where it wasn't masked off totally.

[maxwellwedge]

Hey Geno - Here  is the hose detail.

[69_500]

Sorry can't get a photo of the quarter panels to show the faint paint line running down them. I'll make sure to get a better photo of that the next time up there.

Another side note  here Gene, but I was looking at the photo's I took of the malcom's car and it appears to me that the screws that hold the nose screen on are painted body color on their survivor car. I'll see if I can clean up the photo and resize it and post it as well.

[hemigeno]

Been working through some of the detail items that are being discussed in the last round of pictures with Vance, and I have a lot better understanding of some things...

First, the screws on the grille screen should not be painted body color.  There is a question about whether we should have used some black phosphate screws rather than the chrome ones (which is what Vance has documented on other low-mileage cars).  Vance went with what he knew, although we both noted that black phos screws held my grille frame in place.  As to why they shouldn't be body color, that's a direct function of how the grille was painted in the first place.  The grille mesh and grille frame were painted separate from the nosecone.  In fact, the grille mesh and frame were normally painted separately (not as an assembled unit).  This is made evident by the body color paint found on my car behind the grille frame itself (I went back and looked at its disassembly pictures, and that is indeed the case) and the body color on the grille mesh behind where the frame would otherwise have masked it.  The nosecone was painted without the grille frame/mesh installed, so the screw heads would have had to have been painted separately if they were to be body color.  Beyond that, two low-mileage cars Vance has done both had unpainted chrome screws in the grille frame.  Plus, if you look at one of the pictures of the cars being loaded onto the car carrier at Creative Industries (the one taken from the front of the car hauler), you can see bright-headed screws holding the grille frame in place.

It's possible that other cars were painted in a different fashion, but Vance's past experience, the pattern evident from my car, and the back-in-the-day photo evidence support the way he's handled this. 

Vance also documented the location of the heater hoses on Chris Sauer's Daytona, which were actually just the opposite of what Jim observed on his car.  I found "Figure 7" in Section 24-4 of the FSM that Jim alluded to earlier, and understand what he was talking about with the inlet and outlet on the heater core.  That doesn't mean it was universally followed, and perhaps that was the reason Chrysler went to the asymmetrical heater hose arrangement starting in 1970.  Vance is 100% sure that Chris' car's routing is original, since there was Creative Industries overspray "shadows" on the heater hose that could only have been made if the hoses were in a certain position.  If they were the other way, it would have made a different shadowline.  Regardless, it is our hope that an original set of heater hoses will replace the set that you see now, and once those arrive we'll follow standard protocol.

Thanks for posting those heater hose pictures, Jim - the car looks great!  Danny, I appreciate you resizing/posting the photo of the trim, and for trying to get a clear shot of the paint line.  Also, I found some shots from one of the Malcom's cars, but wasn't sure which "survivor"    it was.

That's all I have time for at the moment, gotta head home soon to take Jonathan to Upwards basketball practice tonight.

[69_500]

Gene if its a picture I gave you of the Malcom's car it is the one that I think it actually untouched. I didn't take a photo of the others grille screen.

[nascarxx29]

I recall seeing a thin blue color line on my daytona original heater hoses   Anyone else seen that line.It was either on one of the 2 heater hoses .Or top radiator hose

[hemigeno]

I took several shots of the inner fenders and fender supports/brackets, but this too is an area still being detailed.  Vance had just recently installed some nice original rubber seals on the inner fenders, and the whole area will be spritzed with undercoating/deadener to replicate the original installation.  Vance and I have been kicking around which bolts and clips were in place when the paintwork was done by Creative, since all those parts could potentially have overspray on them -- depending on how shielded they were from the paintgun.

You can also see the front wheel lip moulding in the first picture.  This is the original moulding from this car (after being straightened and polished, of course) mounted in the same holes in the trim as before.  That bottom screw was randomly located by a Creative Industries worker, whereas all the other holes were pre-punched and mated up to the holes factory-punched in the fender lip by the stamping plant.  I don't remember if I have pictures of it or not, but Vance, Danny and I did a fair amount of headscratching on the driver's side front wheel lip moulding as to why it didn't fit the same as this side's moulding did.  More on that later.

[hemigeno]

More inner fender area shots.  The last of these shows the rubber splash shield that hasn't been detailed with undercoating & overspray just yet.

[hemi68charger]

I took several shots of the inner fenders and fender supports/brackets, but this too is an area still being detailed.  Vance had just recently installed some nice original rubber seals on the inner fenders, and the whole area will be spritzed with undercoating/deadener to replicate the original installation.  Vance and I have been kicking around which bolts and clips were in place when the paintwork was done by Creative, since all those parts could potentially have overspray on them -- depending on how shielded they were from the paintgun.

You can also see the front wheel lip moulding in the first picture.  This is the original moulding from this car (after being straightened and polished, of course) mounted in the same holes in the trim as before.  That bottom screw was randomly located by a Creative Industries worker, whereas all the other holes were pre-punched and mated up to the holes factory-punched in the fender lip by the stamping plant.  I don't remember if I have pictures of it or not, but Vance, Danny and I did a fair amount of headscratching on the driver's side front wheel lip moulding as to why it didn't fit the same as this side's moulding did.  More on that later.

Ahhhhhhh, that's the tricky one........ I was going to shot undercoating on my Daytona to freshen it up.. Would be a no-brain EXCEPT for the overspray coming in while the front clip was being painted.........

Was there a typical tire blanket put over the front tires when the front clip was repainted or off the car like this when done. The reason I ask is there should be slight signs of body color residue/overspray on the upper/lower control arms, no?

Looks like the upper control arm has some at the mounting points.....

[hemigeno]

Ahhhhhhh, that's the tricky one........ I was going to shot undercoating on my Daytona to freshen it up.. Would be a no-brain EXCEPT for the overspray coming in while the front clip was being painted.........

If your undercoating is still in good shape, try fogging it with black paint.  That's what I did earlier on my R/T, and it helped the look of the undercarriage a bunch.  It takes some work to mask off the areas you don't want to touch up, but it's worth the effort.  As for the front wheelwells, it's your call whether to replicate the overspray look or not.  Even though it's "authentic", it doesn't make the car look real swift.

Was there a typical tire blanket put over the front tires when the front clip was repainted or off the car like this when done. The reason I ask is there should be slight signs of body color residue/overspray on the upper/lower control arms, no?

Looks like the upper control arm has some at the mounting points.....

I would say yes, as it would have been a lot of work to take tires/wheels off and remount.  It would have been a WHOLE lot of work to remove paint or overspray from the tires and wheels, so throwing a blanket or something else over each tire would have been a simple precaution to take... similar to what they did with the engine compartment.  The tire would have shielded the outer end of the UCA somewhat, and the farther back it went the more suspect it would have been to overspray.  Incidentally, my camera and flash made what overspray you see look way more pronounced than it really is.  It's there obviously, but not as easy to see in person for whatever reason.  Danny saw what I was talking about, although his camera probably took more true-to-life pictures.

[hemi68charger]

Ahhhhhhh, that's the tricky one........ I was going to shot undercoating on my Daytona to freshen it up.. Would be a no-brain EXCEPT for the overspray coming in while the front clip was being painted.........

If your undercoating is still in good shape, try fogging it with black paint.  That's what I did earlier on my R/T, and it helped the look of the undercarriage a bunch.  It takes some work to mask off the areas you don't want to touch up, but it's worth the effort.  As for the front wheelwells, it's your call whether to replicate the overspray look or not.  Even though it's "authentic", it doesn't make the car look real swift.

Well,, Geno, I try and strive for attain a high level of quality. You and Vance, my boy, have set my new standard..... 

[hemigeno]

A thing to note in the first picture is that some of the clips/brackets which are "clean" right now may yet be dusted with overspray.  That's why I took this picture, to remind myself to ask about that topic - which we did shortly after I snapped this one.

The second shows the front spindle after Vance removed one of the backing plates.  I brought up a different set of backing plates for Vance to choose the best one from and use on this side.  It's hard to find these in unpitted shape.  Sharp-eyed onlookers may also notice that the lower ball joint isn't correct.  We're still waiting on a replacement, and I have a backup plan if that doesn't come through soon.  Vance really can't button up the front end until we get some of these parts issues ironed out, but the wheels (no pun intended) are in motion to get all that taken care of.

The third picture shows the front reflector after installation.  I don't recall specifically, but I think it may still be getting a bit of overspray around the edge of the lens itself.  Don't hold me to that, as I need to follow up.

In the last pic you can see how the stripe was "X"ed and pressed into the rear reflector's quarterpanel indentation.  You can still see primer peeking through in the indentation, a remnant from Hamtramck's original paint application.

[hemigeno]

Well,, Geno, I try and strive for attain a high level of quality. You and Vance, my boy, have set my new standard..... 

Don't let my misguided attempt to replicate what can never be perfectly replicated (without a time machine) steer you in any particular direction.  Fix your car up to make YOU happy, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks or says about it. 

[hemigeno]

These pics show overspray on the front sway bar and other suspension components.  This is an example where my camera really made the red stand out, when it honestly doesn't look as pronounced in person.

One thing to point out in the last picture, is that a regular Charger would have had a bolt in that hole to attach the fender.  At Hamtramck, that bolt and the tab would have been brushed with a coat of black paint to make it blend in a bit rather than stand out like it does now.  Creative Industries had an occasional habit of not replacing this bolt when they installed the new Daytona fender, and they didn't always re-apply any blackout paint on the tab (or bolt, if it did get installed) either.  Another observed trait on some cars that will vary from car to car.

[hemi68charger]

Well,, Geno, I try and strive for attain a high level of quality. You and Vance, my boy, have set my new standard.....  

Don't let my misguided attempt to replicate what can never be perfectly replicated (without a time machine) steer you in any particular direction.  Fix your car up to make YOU happy, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks or says about it.  

I'm not going anywhere where I don't want to....... I strive to get as much correct information as possible, luckily, I have this tread and others to learn from. That's what make ME happy, the challenge...  I'm sure there's "Creative Industry Assembly Line" correct, (the good ole Chrysler checklist). But, even within that microcosm of production, there were deviations from one technician to the next and even deviations by the same technician from one day to the next based on production timelines and schedules and whether it was a Monday or Friday...

So, the "improvements" I do are solely based on my desires and the ability within me to do it in my garage.........

Troy


PS: is there a reason the fender bolt-to-inner splash shield isn't installed yet?

[hemigeno]

I'm not going anywhere where I don't want to....... I strive to get as much correct information as possible, luckily, I have this tread and others to learn from. That's what make ME happy, the challenge...  I'm sure there's "Creative Industry Assembly Line" correct, (the good ole Chrysler checklist). But, even within that microcosm of production, there were deviations from one technician to the next and even deviations by the same technician from one day to the next based on production timelines and schedules and whether it was a Monday or Friday...

So, the "improvements" I do are solely based on my desires and the ability within me to do it in my garage.........

Troy

  Sounds good!

PS: is there a reason the fender bolt-to-inner splash shield isn't installed yet?

I was in the process of modifying my original post to add that explanation when you posted your comment.  I took that picture for the express purpose of pointing out that oddity.

[hemigeno]

Here are pictures I took of the rocker panel pinch weld blackout treatment.  This was not exactly a precision paint operation, and all they tried to make sure of was that the pinch weld got blasted.

One distinction to make in that last photo is that the lower section of the Daytona fender did NOT have the blackout paint, as the body color work was done by Creative.  You can see how Vance "masked off" the pinch weld blackout to replicate the look.  

[hemigeno]

Another shot of blackout overspray that made it to underbody components, followed by a wider-perspective shot of the floor pans.

The third picture shows one of the ID paint markings applied to the torsion bar, and the opposite side has two paint daubs.