hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[69_500]

a few more



The first shot shows the transmission and one of the several color splotches.  You can also see the red transmission mount attachment nut that we discussed a few pages back.  A little later on, you'll be able to see an original nut to get a better idea of the original color/plating.  I'll post some pictures I took a little later showing the pretty bad pitting on the underneath side of the transmission case.  It was my idea - not Vance's - to put the transmission case in the car with all that pitting visible.  Vance had very carefully filled in all that pitting, smooted everything out without losing any of the casting lines and other important contours, and painted the transmission case to mimic (as closely as possible) a bare casting look including some slightly different tints to the various components which were usually noticeable.  I pretty much insisted that Vance strip the case back down to bare metal, which he obliged.  Upon further review, it probably wasn't such a hot idea since the bottom side of the numbers-matching case had a fairly tough life from exposure to the elements.  Guess it would have been better if the engine had a bad main seal leak to gunk everything up a little better, eh?     Anyway, I am debating which is the lesser of two evils...  painted tranny case, or pitted bare case...  ideas anyone??

The second picture shows some of the shadow effect on the oil pan rail from the engine paint process.  This was talked about in some earlier replies, so I made sure (and Danny did too) to document how the oil pan rail looked.  Obviously, each engine differed in how much paint was applied to the areas, so there is no absolute pattern that MUST be followed.  Vance chose to have some shadow effect as has been seen, but overall to have fairly complete paint coverage of the engine.  I think it's great the way it is, but would not question those with either more or less paint coverage to suit their own tastes and/or original car's pattern.

In the last pic you can see a closeup of the original-style wheel weights.  My car is not yet sporting its wheels or tires, as those need to be sent out to Stockton Wheel for refurbishing and straightening.  I picked up the second set of wheels on Saturday so that both sets (the date-correct set which will wear 40 year old "new" tires) and another set which will be sporting repro bias-ply redlines.  We still haven't received the refurbished trim rings back from George Iverson yet either, and placing a call to him is on my lengthy To-Do list.

[69_500]

and a few more


In the first pic you can see the date of the rear glass.  The pertinent numbers are in the center-right of the etchings, and reads "69G".  Neither Danny, I nor anyone else I've spoken with yet know what the "G" references, but the first two digits indicate the glass was made in June of '69.  I have two pieces - both with the same date codes and one of which is the original back glass.  We had hoped one would be in decent shape.  Of course, both are scratched up enough that they just wouldn't work right for this type of a restoration effort.  So, an effort is being made to have the glass polished up.  Thankfully, the scratches are almost all on the outside, and the etching is on the inside.  Danny snapped several pictures to satiate his own research on glass codes, and in case we needed to have ECS or another source to re-etch what you see there.

I'll have to assume that the second photo shows some of the orange peel paintwork that Vance tried to carry throughout.  That effort means they really can't go to town cutting and buffing the exterior to make it shine, since that could very easily and quickly remove all that "texture".

In the third photo you can see the battery, cable (with overspray, of course), steering gearbox (we've re-used the original rather than replacing it), and some of the other engine front details.  Jim has already questioned the number hand-written on the valve cover, and I'm doing some more research as to what that number should be for a 1969 440 w/ 833 car.  What that number should be has not been finalized, but I tend to agree with Jim that it probably shouldn't be a "5".  I am open to further input on the subject, however...

The last pic is a shot my little digital camera ain't gonna be able to take, shooting across the latch tray like that.  Let's just say Danny has a "real" camera.  The latch tray is installed, and (as probably mentioned earlier in the thread) has been finished off in Organosol just like my original - and a few other documented original parts - was done.  The latch tray attachment bracket which is spot-welded to the yoke is the original part and was not painted black as most other cars' brackets were.  Vance had to finish it off to appear as a bare metal part due to the amount of fairly deep pitting it had.  That was a tradeoff... replace the part with a new piece of metal, in which case it's not an original part, or finish the original off to appear that it is bare metal.  I did inquire if there's any way we can make the spot welds appear a little more pronounced and realistic looking.  The original welds are still there, but they have been ever so slightly blended in.  I think Vance was also going to replicate the look of the spot weld burns, since those should still be evident on a bare piece like this.

[moparstuart]

   car porn

[69_500]

and even a few more

The first picture shows the jack bracket area.  Vance relocated the bracket just a touch to help the bumper jack to clear the wing braces.  They could have held the wing brackets over to the quarterpanel a little to allow more room, but they located the holes where the brackets went by installing the wing and brackets, then snugging everything up to see where the bracket "naturally" went.  By locating the holes in that fashion, it won't put any stress or deflection on the quarterpanel once everything is installed and torqued down.  Made sense to me, but that necessitated tweaking of the jack bracket just a bit.  No big strain.  In the marker light hole, you don't see the stripe cut out and folded in on this side, although the other side has been installed.  Long story about why that is, and it's not important at the moment.  This detail will get straightened out as time goes along.

I pointed out to Danny that the hood pins aren't yet detailed out, and he took this picture.  They'll be taped off fairly close to the bottom (but not all the way) and the star washer, bottom of the upper jam nut & surrounding area will all get R4.  This is still a work in progress.

The third picture is one of an original transmission mount nut, visible on the underneath side of the tranny crossmember.  This shows the reddish color, almost a candy-apple red.  Bill Alphin - do you know of anyone who does red anodizing in that flavor?   

In the last pic you can see the edge of the horizontal stabilizer.  Wings were painted all together as an assembly, so there will be no paint on the mating edge of the extruded center section or the cast uprights where the parts meet.  There is just a bit of overspray present, since the parts do not mate up perfectly.

[69_500]

still going


Vance pointed out to Danny and I one way to spot original (not reproduction) battery caps.  If you look at the center of the cap, you'll see two parallel lines.  These are always present on originals, but not on repro caps.  There are other differences (I think I've covered those earlier in the thread), but that's one way to tell without ever touching a guy's battery.  The same distinction holds true for green caps as well (we saw one) and probably yellow too.

Danny nabbed this second shot of the driveshaft part number stamping.  I'm still amazed Vance had that part.

The third shows some of the trunk pan.  Vance asked me to check old photos of my car to see how much undercoating was sprayed in this area.  Quite often, he's seen undercoating in this area, as well as other parts of the rear clip.  There's more work to be done throughout the rear half of the car, including replacement of all the body plugs with the correct parts.

In the last picture you can see a couple of original plastic Dana60 hole plugs.  The red one on the left is what we're trying to locate, as that seems to be what was used during the '69 model year.  The green one on the left has definitely been seen on E-body cars.  The plugs were painted gloss black along with the axle assembly, so I don't know if it matters much what color the plug is -- until the paint starts flaking off the plastic...

[69_500]

like the little bunny still going


sorry if one duplicated was getting tired of error messages of file names already existing.


The first picture shows the currently available reproduction fan belt.  They look great, and the stamping looks just like the originals I've seen.  However, they stretch about like a rubber band when the engine revs up.  Dave, I have a later-style 216 fan belt that is ink-stamped rather than heat-embossed like the OEM's were -- and at least it won't stretch.  That'll have to do until I can locate a proper part.

In the second photo you can see the underside of the battery tray.  I don't remember looking at that area of the car until Danny posted the photo, and one thing I need to ask Vance is whether the brace and J-clip should have as much paint right at the top of the tray.  You can see that the underside of the tray didn't get complete body-color paint coverage, since it was installed and painted along with the rest of the engine compartment.  I'll have to see if there's a reason that brace is more thoroughly painted, as there might be a really good reason.

This batch of Danny's photos ends with a shot similar to the first one, just of the opposite side floor pan.  This side has the fuel & return line rather than the brake line & E-brake cable.  Overspray galore...

[maxwellwedge]

I am loving it... ...driveshaft envy! 

[1969chargerrtse]

 car porn

Unbelievable workmanship for sure.

[Davtona]

Oh man 4:15 am. Danny kept you out late Gene.    A lot of changes since Thanksgiving for sure.    Where did that 216 embossed fan belt come from? Good job on that. Looks like you can take that off the needed parts list. Looking wonderful. 

[hemigeno]

Thanks for the compliments, everyone.  It's getting a lot closer to being done in one sense, but the detail work takes a while to go through completely.  Lots of little things, as well as some major component work yet to be completed.  I have a ton of items yet to round up, although the list is a lot shorter than it used to be.  I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Oh man 4:15 am. Danny kept you out late Gene.    A lot of changes since Thanksgiving for sure.    Where did that 216 embossed fan belt come from? Good job on that. Looks like you can take that off the needed parts list. Looking wonderful. 

Dave, you should be glad you didn't tag along this trip, as your drive is about as long as mine...  I was actually headed for the door with the intention of leaving about a dozen times, but there was always another thought, question or topic of discussion that popped up - and off we'd go, back to the car to check something else out.  See the added text above on the fan belt.  That's the repop unit which stretches like a rubber band and rolls completely over in the pulley V-grooves.  Not cool.  A correct belt is definitely still on my list of things to scrounge.

[69_500]

You did a pretty quick job of adding a description to everything. I know you were going to do some more work and possible change some things on the hood pins and their washers and such, but that photo was more of a picture of the hood bumper and how it was covered in paint. I forgot to post a photo of the underside of the hood where it smeared the paint when closed with the paint still wet. I'll see about posting that photo in a little while.

The car is going to turn out great once completed Gene. I am afraid that with as much nutty things that I constantly go around cars and look at that if I was to ever do a restoration I'd probably go as far in restoring a car of my own, but as we discussed I am probably never going to restore my car. I'll just continue to drive it as is, because once I start doing anything to it I'd be afraid it would wind up like your car is coming along and at my rate of getting things done on the car I'd be 80 before it was completed.

[69_500]

Side note here Gene, but I went looking through some photos for more door VIN stickers and I can't come up with any so far. Looked at the early car but I was wrong no VIN sticker on the door. But I did find some photo's of other "survivor" cars and how the hood pins have paint up on the nut as well as over the washers, which I know is what you were wanting done to yours and I spoiled it and posted a picture of them without that.

[hemi68charger]

Geno.
I'm in total awe........... I for one can't put into words how awesome your car is........... I do have one question though. The battery tray? The attachment bolt that goes through the tray into the lower forward support, shouldn't the threads be painted too? If not, in the spirit of making sure any future project of mine is correct, why wouldn't it be?

Troy

[Daytona R/T SE]

   INCREDIBLE

[hemigeno]

Thanks Troy & Chris - I appreciate the comments!

The battery tray? The attachment bolt that goes through the tray into the lower forward support, shouldn't the threads be painted too? If not, in the spirit of making sure any future project of mine is correct, why wouldn't it be?

Troy, I was questioning essentially the same thing in my earlier comments added to Danny's replies - if the tray was painted as an assembled unit on the car with the rest of the engine compartment, I'm thinking the brace would have less paint near the top and the clip perhaps painted just along the edges... whatever happened to get paint based on the angle of the spraygun.  Plus, as you said, the paint which made it to the bolt should be on the threads if it was assembled when painted.  I haven't had a chance to ask Vance what's up here, but will do so.

[hemi68charger]

Thanks Troy & Chris - I appreciate the comments!

The battery tray? The attachment bolt that goes through the tray into the lower forward support, shouldn't the threads be painted too? If not, in the spirit of making sure any future project of mine is correct, why wouldn't it be?

Troy, I was questioning essentially the same thing in my earlier comments added to Danny's replies - if the tray was painted as an assembled unit on the car with the rest of the engine compartment, I'm thinking the brace would have less paint near the top and the clip perhaps painted just along the edges... whatever happened to get paint based on the angle of the spraygun.  Plus, as you said, the paint which made it to the bolt should be on the threads if it was assembled when painted.  I haven't had a chance to ask Vance what's up here, but will do so.

No problem.. Looks like the engine compartment was painted with the lower support brackets in place, the tray painted separately, later installed and fastened.

Your car is a Mopar-dream.....

T

[gtx6970]

Gene,
is the nut the same as E-body prop valve mtg nuts with a molded in washer ( shown) or is it a free spinning washer similar to the wiper pivot mtg.?

Sorry but I still haven't found anyone who can do the red zinc di-chromate plating.

[hemigeno]

Bill, it looks pretty much exactly like the ones you've pictured (not sure about the size/thread just from looking), and they definitely have a molded-in washer.  Are those a buy-out item for you?  What finish is on them?

[BigBlockSam]

hey Gene

incredible job you guys are doing on you car. 

but i have one concern . if you drive that car, like i know you will , wouldn't you have a problem with all that exposed primer on the bottom of the car . i would think it would get rusty quickly    i guess you can clear it with a non shiny  clear.

just wondering, Rene

[tan top]

hey Gene

incredible job you guys are doing on you car.  

but i have one concern . if you drive that car, like i know you will , wouldn't you have a problem with all that exposed primer on the bottom of the car . i would think it would get rusty quickly    i guess you can clear it with a non shiny  clear.

just wondering, Rene

i was  thinking that too BBS  
for me that car is too well detailed to use  ! well not just detailed , its a time machine  recreation of creatives handy work &  needs going in a museum

[maxwellwedge]

I'm guessing that "Dip color" primer is really normal paint made to look like the Dip primer...It is on all my resto's. Gibson sells it and my guy duplicated his own a few years ago.

[hemigeno]

Yep, Jim's exactly right... what looks like primer is actually a paint product which seals things up pretty well.  If I remember right, Vance uses a blend of DP products to get the tint/look he wants.  Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to things like that, but you're dead on, Rene - leaving it in primer would guarantee the underside would look just as crusty as it did when we started in hardly any time at all.   




I'll have to talk myself into (eventually) driving the car, but that day will either come or the car will find a new home -- since my wife and I agreed before purchasing this Daytona or starting the resto that we weren't running a car museum.

BTW, welcome back, Rene!  I had wondered what was up.  How's the Daytona running?  Still terrorizing your block on occasion? 

[gtx6970]

Gene,
These are a 5/16-18 thread pitch, I can't remember what threads the trans mount is

These are zinc plated then a red di-chromate dip process to finish them off.
I buy them in bulk already done. I think theres a  plater in Toronto Canada  area that replicate the red dip color , Jules may know of it

[hemigeno]

Bill, the part number for that nut in 1969 is 6025804 in some of the docs I found.  MMC Detroit (ICCA) says that the trans mount to crossmember nut is 5/16-18 thread just like the proportioning mounting valve nut you showed.  They go on to say that the exact style of nut you posted is correct for 1970 B-bodies (this version of their book doesn't cover E-bodies) but that 1968-9 cars are supposed to have a slightly-different shaped "hex flange head 'top crush lock' nut.  They also say both styles should to be a phosphate finish.     Very well could be an early/late thing...

My transmission crossmember was still mounted to the underneath side of the transmission even though it was out of the car, so I'll double-check to make sure that what Vance showed me as "the original style transmission mount nut" was the one from my own car.  He didn't bat an eye on the subject though when Danny and I were up there.

[BigBlockSam]

BTW, welcome back, Rene!  I had wondered what was up.  How's the Daytona running?  Still terrorizing your block on occasion?  lol

thanks Gene, yea having a blast with the daytona . i used her for two weeks as a daily driver . she handled it well .  she's meant to be driven .

after all you've done with this car , you have to drive her, maybe a burnout or two.............maybe