hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[maxwellwedge]

I think I have seen different colors - all originals say "Clover" - I'll check out some of my original stuff and report.

[maxwellwedge]

Re: MP50

I finally remembered to check a can. Mopar part # 04549626AB 

I use it on a lot of stuff.

[hemigeno]

I noticed it has the green plug on the dana, I have an original around here somewhere from a 1970 Coronet Dana rear and it's red.

I always thought the green one was for E-body danas and red was B-body danas . But considering your research on this I'm probably wrong  

Bill,

I have held off on replying to your question so I could do the research now that you "accused" me of having done previously    

To be honest, I think there's a red plug in the axle now.





Here's a picture from around the time the axle was installed:




As for which color is correct, the email Dave posted above (thanks for posting that too, BTW!) from Roger Gibson is about all I have seen that says much about Dana plug colors.  Couldn't find any info in the MMC Detroit stuff that I still have here (Vance has my other book), and a few hours scouring/searching Moparts' archives and a few other resources didn't yield anything definitive.  I know I had given Vance a repro red plug from Frank Badalson, but there's a pretty high chance that Vance put an original piece in there - he's remarkably well stocked on little detail items like that.  I'll double-check next time I'm up there.

It also could be that this plug still needs a coat of gloss black paint too - if the plug was indeed installed before the housing was painted.  In fact, he may need to clean out the paint in the hole and on the threads too, plus make a "shadow" effect on the housing behind the plug.  The paint probably didn't stick really well to the red plastic, but perhaps some remnants would still be visible.  Yet another thing to inquire about...  which is just fine.  I love the fine detail points like this!  

[hemigeno]

Gads...now you have me wondering what my lighter knob looks like.  

That's sortof what happens to me when I read stuff like that Moparts thread too - never gave it a thought, and then can hardly rest until I find out what's there and/or what's "correct".

It's a sickness...  

Mine out of the Green Daytona looks like the one on the right. More cone shaped underneath. And it has CUNO 12V stamped around the top part of the barrel. You can see that in the Moparts picture also if you look close. You know the car Gene & it's history. It was in the car tonight when I checked. I believe it to be the original. Sounds like there may be a couple differnet versions used.  

Thanks for the feedback, Dave!  Hope you don't get tired of checking out all these silly questions I have for you.  The green Daytona used to rest quietly in your shop, until I started pestering you about details on it...  There's hardly a crack or crevice that I haven't asked you to take a peek at for me!  

verry nice.. i am jalous!

Thank you for the compliment Nelson, although I would add that committing to a restoration of this type also comes with the risk of BEING committed!   

Hey Geno, man she's looking great. Love the detail work, it will all be worth it in the end, right? 

Thanks, Steve - and I do hope all the effort will be worth it.  Even if no one else is, I think I'll be satisfied that just about everything that could be done "correctly" was... that is if I ever stop researching and making little changes along the way!!

[hemigeno]

Wow Gene, I haven't visited this thread in a while....since it was in primer!  Didn't realize it was in paint & on 4 tires!!

Hopefully you are gonna make a how-to book on the resto for future reference?

Chris, whereya been, pal??     

The problem with trying to do a how-to book would be my lack of skills in the bodywork area.  That's where a lot of the really nice transformation and detail work has been done.  It'd be sorta like asking Bob Costas to write a how-to book about winning 8 gold medals in Olympic swimming competition a la Michael Phelps.  He may be able to describe what is happening to the viewers quite eloquently, but knowing how it is done... well, let's just say that's just like me and bodywork... 

Maybe I should start looking for a ghost writer who used to work in a bodyshop!

I think I have seen different colors - all originals say "Clover" - I'll check out some of my original stuff and report.

Thanks for checking your stuff out for me, Jim - and thanks for the part number on the MP-50.  I'll pass that along to Vance right away!

[nascarxx29]

  I might have a few of those plastic pieces maybe all green ones .I used to save those obscure items. 

[hemigeno]

May have to bug you about one, if they're "supposed" to be green ones...

[nascarxx29]

I dug one up today I had that shows evidence of black paint and says clover 203

[hemigeno]

I dug one up today I had that shows evidence of black paint and says clover 203

So far the unofficial survey I've taken has yielded the collective opinion that '70+ cars had both green and red plugs, but that '69s should all be red (or more accurately, a maroonish/clay red).  Guess that's what I'm going to be scrounging for pretty soon.  Also, the consensus is that the plugs were installed prior to the axle's paint application as your original plug's picture shows, which only makes sense to me.  We'll be taking care of this little issue at some point, but it's an easy one to handle on down the road.  Thanks for the pic though, Dave!!

I need to update this thread with the results of the past 3 weeks or so, as a pretty cool thing happened in the "ultra-correct" parts department.  Next week I'll write up the news...

[hemigeno]

I was going to wait and post an update after making a Michigan trip this weekend, but Dave and I won't be headed north at least for a couple weeks.  Vance apparently has the flu...    Members of my family have already had the regular flu AND the swine flu in the past month, so I really don't want to do the "collect the whole flu bug set" thing and bring back whatever strain Michigan has floating around.

Anyway, here's what's been going on over the past few weeks.  As most of you guys know, I spent about 9 months scouring the country looking for a rubber manufacturer who could produce a flat/masticated rubber product similar to the radiator air seals inside the nosecone.  Yeah, yeah - I know several guys are groaning right now - but this is a neat thing so don't scroll down just yet!

A few months back, I was told of a gentleman in Tennesee who had bought an absolute treasure trove of genuine, Creative-Industries-issued Daytona parts back around 1973 or so.  His haul included the following (and more, but this is just the big stuff):
Nosecone shell
Z-brackets
Frame mounting brackets (crash bars)
Latchtray
Headlight buckets
Headlight pods
All of the mounting hardware for the pods (springs, clips, plates, etc).
Actuators
Nosecone wiring harness (with the Daytona part number!)
Lower valance
Lower valance seals & bracketry
Front spoiler
License plate bracket
What was labeled as a matched pair of Daytona nose-to-fender seals (more on this later)
Hood-to-nosecone seal
Hood
Daytona fenders, with modified lower front corner and grille screens installed
Fender scoops
A-pillar mouldings
Doors
Rear window plug
Decklid
Lower trunk extensions
Wing washers
Wing braces
Wing - complete
Wing washer gaskets
And the piece de resistance, a set of radiator air seals complete, except for one Lower Fender Splash Shield

The man sent me a DVD of this parts stash (all the parts mentioned above are NOS), which nearly caused me to fall out of my chair.  What an incredible collection!  The price for all the above when he bought it?  


$500   (in 1973-4 dollars, of course)  

I won't go into the specifics of what he's doing with the parts, but suffice it to say that the majority of what he's got is already being used by him.  The reason we ended up conversing has to do with the aforementioned nose-to-fender seals.  His parts were tagged as being a complete set (3412668-9), but in actuality he has two 3412669 seals - driver's side only.  There's another story about why he has two of the same seals, but that will have to wait.

As it turns out, he was interested in securing a couple sets of NOS/correct '70 Charger seals I had collected when we were planning to "make our own" NOS fender seals by somehow fusing two '70 Charger seals together to make the extended-length Daytona seal.  That's how Creative, Goodyear, or some other vendor made them back in 1969, so I had figured we could replicate the process if given the same parts.  That whole process became unnecessary when Vance was able (after David Patik gave me some tips) to refurbish my original fender seals to like-new condition.  Which means, I didn't need the '70 Charger seals after all - but this gentleman did.

Long story short - like I've ever done that before   - we worked a deal between us where he received my seals plus a repro set of air seals and I was able to get his set of rubber air seals and a set of wing gaskets.  The one piece his set was missing happened to be one of the few salvageable pieces from my original car's seals.  Which means, my car is now sporting a complete set of original-material air seals, most of which is NOS.  

*whew*

I asked Vance to compare the NOS material to the reproductions as carefully as he could.  His response was that the texture on the repro's was very close to the originals, but that even though we post-cured the repro rubber to a fairly stiff level, those original pieces were even stiffer.  The word Vance used was "more petrified".  That evidenced itself when they went to install the single piece which ties the radiator yoke to the lower valance and covers up a bracket/brace connection point.  They went to bend that 40-year-old seal around the brace, and it ended up splitting the rubber.  We're debating about whether to replace that particular piece with one of the slightly-more-flexible repro pieces or to leave it as-is.  No decision on that just yet.

[hemi68charger]

I was going to wait ......

OK, I won't completely quote the above statement.. It's more than a mouthful............. Double Whew !!!!

Talk about my horse-trading ideas.......

This has got to be one of the most thought out restorations in history..........

   

Troy

[hemigeno]

Along a semi-related note, the fact that those air seals became available created another problem.  The nosecone had to come off.  

The lower fender splash shields actually "wrap around" the frame mounting brackets (aka crash bars), and they have to be installed before the nosecone.  Vance wasn't terribly enthusiastic about taking the nosecone off, as it raised the distinct possibility that something would get tweaked during the removal/reinstallation and either damage the paint or end up not fitting as well as it did prior to removal.  They solved that problem by leaving the latchtray bolted in place while the nosecone was off, which helped keep everything lined up.  It worked, which meant that Vance and his guys didn't burn me in effigy after all (as far as I know ).

Vance and I had also talked over the past month or so about how to handle a few problem areas in the paint.  In the last batch of pictures, I showed some areas where the texture/orange peel just wasn't as uniform as Vance would like it.  Not being exactly the same everywhere is to be expected (right, Jim?!?!?), but the problem was that some of the areas had just a hint of a powdery texture.  Right after the car was painted, Vance explained about the paint drying out, which I understand.  At the time, we had assumed these areas could be "nursed" (as Vance put it) into more of the orange peel look we were going for.  The problem was, when they went to sand down these problem areas it ended up making them smooth no matter how lightly they tried to hit it.  THAT is a problem.  Of course, we could always have left it alone and just pretended that a Hamtramck or Creative Industries worker had to sand down and/or touch-up a scuff or other blemish in the paint.  Just leaving it alone would have bugged both Vance and I - and it would have bugged me moreso.

So, we agreed that it needed to be sanded down and re-sprayed.  That's exactly what Vance has done, and it reportedly turned out awesome.  Without going into great detail, the body was broken into sections and sprayed out so that he had adequate time between coats, but kept the uniformity where it should be and differences where there should be different.  I'll hopefully have pictures and a better description of what/why he did things after the next trip.

[hemigeno]

Talk about my horse-trading ideas.......

Where do you think I get those horse-trading ideas from?  



P.S.  Thanks, Troy!  It's been a learning experience throughout, that's for sure

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Talk about my horse-trading ideas.......

Where do you think I get those horse-trading ideas from?  



P.S.  Thanks, Troy!  It's been a learning experience throughout, that's for sure

... And the H99N99 Troy-Trade ™ Flu continues to spread...    Gene, you gotta tell us more about this guy someday in the future!

[Charger-Bodie]

Geno, I'm gonna have to check that thing out sometime. If you are ever looking for a co-pilot when go fro a visit to Vances and you want to swig through here let me know.

Sounds like some great progress.

[nascarxx29]

Unrelated another mention of a NOS daytona front clip.Nice stash of parts if you can find them and buy them

Re: hemicuda and superbird...
« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2009, 09:29:15 PM » Quote Modify 

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I stopped in Great lakes mopars tent always they had wingcar stuff .And said had more elsewhere like a nos daytona front clip

[nascarxx29]

I agree with Allen
Gene, you gotta tell us more about this guy someday in the future!



Would also make nice reference material original parts pictures and # numbers to add for aero car website if shared

[hemigeno]

Would also make nice reference material original parts pictures and # numbers to add for aero car website if shared

Dave,

I do not have the owner's permission to post the pictures he sent, nor will I post a GoogleEarth map/screenshot of his personal residence.

[hemigeno]

Geno, I'm gonna have to check that thing out sometime. If you are ever looking for a co-pilot when go fro a visit to Vances and you want to swig through here let me know.

Sounds like some great progress.

Brian,

I occasionally pick up lost and weary travellers from Iowa in Joliet or LaSalle.     

If you can work it into your schedule some weekend, my normal routine is to head up Friday afternoon, spend most of the day Saturday drooling over the rides in Vance's shop, and then cruise back Saturday night.  I'll drop you a note when I'm planning the trip in December (this trip I have to take a shortcut from St. Louis to Grand Haven which goes through Silver Lake, Wisconsin  ).  You'd have a great time talking shop - literally - with Vance.

[Charger-Bodie]

Geno, I'm gonna have to check that thing out sometime. If you are ever looking for a co-pilot when go fro a visit to Vances and you want to swig through here let me know.

Sounds like some great progress.

Brian,

I occasionally pick up lost and weary travellers from Iowa in Joliet or LaSalle.     

If you can work it into your schedule some weekend, my normal routine is to head up Friday afternoon, spend most of the day Saturday drooling over the rides in Vance's shop, and then cruise back Saturday night.  I'll drop you a note when I'm planning the trip in December (this trip I have to take a shortcut from St. Louis to Grand Haven which goes through Silver Lake, Wisconsin  ).  You'd have a great time talking shop - literally - with Vance.

Sounds very cool....Sign me up!!

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Would also make nice reference material original parts pictures and # numbers to add for aero car website if shared

Dave,

I do not have the owner's permission to post the pictures he sent, nor will I post a GoogleEarth map/screenshot of his personal residence.

On second thought, I retract my request...     I should not have skipped the afternoon cup of coffee... 

[gtx6970]

Gene,
I retract my statement. I finally found the one I have from a 1970 Coronet R/T Dana and it's green. I thought for sure it was red ( it's an old age thing )

Also it appears to have been installed when the axle was hot as it appears to have some resemblemence of threads on the tapered  side where it goes into the hole . Or the natural heat from the axle combinded with age melted threads into it over time- see pics

again my apologies , I should have known better than question you

[gtx6970]

tapered side

[hemigeno]

again my apologies , I should have known better than question you

HA!!  No need to apologize Bill, I've learned more stuff from guys correcting my (many) mistakes...

Thanks for the pictures though - got any of a red one?  Vance said they were a clay/brick red rather than bright red like the current repops.  Interesting detail with the threads though!

[maxwellwedge]

Unrelated another mention of a NOS daytona front clip.Nice stash of parts if you can find them and buy them

Re: hemicuda and superbird...
« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2009, 09:29:15 PM » Quote Modify 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I stopped in Great lakes mopars tent always they had wingcar stuff .And said had more elsewhere like a nos daytona front clip

I got the fellow with the burnt Daytona to buy that from Great Lakes a year or two ago.