hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[hemigeno]

With the nosecone off of the car again, I had the chance to take some pictures of the inner fenders and radiator yoke areas, with the lower valance fitted into place.  This is almost ready for the nosecone to be slipped back into position - once I get the blasted radiator air seals sourced...   

[hemigeno]

These pictures show some of the seal mounting positions and methods.  Two small sections of hood-to-nosecone seals were used on either side of the nosecone's center section.  This filled the gap where the fender-to-nosecone seals ended, and that solid flange connection of the nosecone mates up with the lower valance.

You can also see how the fender-to-nosecone seals were attached (to the fender).  The nosecone butts up against them, and the years of being curled around have sorta hardened my original seals into this shape.  I still have hopes of "creating" my own set of NOS Daytona fender seals, but these original seals to me are a much better fallback option than the currently-available reproductions IMHO.

[hemigeno]

Some more seal fastener shots, and a gratuitous shot of the fender well.  I kept getting drawn to the R4 red that they've sprayed out on the car already.  Primer gray isn't nearly as appealing to look at as R4...

Incidentally, in that last picture you can see the outline of the regular 1969 Charger bumper brackets left by the sound deadener.  The body color was sprayed first, the brackets installed, and then the sound deadener was applied.  I mentioned this in an earlier description, but you can see it a little clearer with the Daytona crash bars removed.

[hemigeno]

They had completely disassembled the springs, and put them together with new clamps and pads.  As a lot of you know, springs could either be painted or left bare.  It's a whole lot easier to get a set of springs to look good painted, so that's what we did here.  It would be considered correct either way AFAIK.

[hemigeno]

Here's a shot of the roll bar, and one of the latch tray waiting to be reinstalled.  As mentioned before, we painted the latch tray in a textured black similar to Organosol.

The last picture (admittedly a little blurry) showed me that they did switch out the battery tray - finally!

[hemigeno]

While it hasn't been 100% detailed, they had finished the bulk of the restoration on the Dana rear axle.  My car had a 3.54 (TrackPak) ratio, which should make it tolerable on Interstate runs.  Hopefully I'll have the courage to get this one out and stretch its legs someday, although that might not be for a year or two after the resto is completed.

[hemigeno]

More Dana detail shots... purty...

[hemigeno]

I was rummaging around in the parts piles for a few things, and decided to snap a couple of pictures of some things waiting to be installed.  The first pic is of the bumper brackets and trans crossmember, then comes the restored heater box.

Vance has already detailed the original rear brake drums, including the red paint (this is a W21 Road Wheel car).  The rear drums had plenty of meat left on them, but the front drums are a lot more worn and will need replaced.  Great Lakes NOS has a set of exact assembly-line matches to the original fronts, which will include the hub and wheel studs. 

The master cylinder is not one that I bought.  Vance bought it with some other parts a while back and was going to use it on my car before we got to checking on the differences in castings.  This one has a machined boss and bolt in between the front and rear line connection ports.  I do not think this is the correct master cylinder for my manual drum car, so we'll be getting a different one.  The picture was taken so I could do some more research on the subject.

[hemigeno]

These are some pictures I snapped of the lower control arms.  That's genuine, non-imitation cosmoline on the parts.  It takes a long time to dry, but it does dry.  After a fashion, that is.  I've heard that you have to be somewhat careful with the "real" stuff, in that you can't use a jack without a lot of padding - and tiedown straps would probably rub/press through.

I was a little disappointed in how they finished the LCA's, as the originals were dipped up to about the last inch or two.  Vance has a point in doing things the way he did, in that if you dip the arms and leave that end bare, it will rust as badly as the originals did.  If you try to coat just that tip, then there is a line of demarcation where the coating ends and the cosmoline begins.  If you coat the whole part, then you can potentially lose some of the detail by having too much coating on it.  So, his solution is to coat the whole thing in cosmoline.  I've seen LCA's with a WIDE range of dipping levels - some with almost 3 inches of "exposed" bare metal, and some with just the inch or so.  I guess if they varied that wildly, perhaps some cars' LCAs are mostly coated as mine were??   

You can see the colored paint daubs already applied to the arms.  I didn't take a super-close picture of it just yet, but you can see the weld marks where the sway bar bracket was attached to the LCA.  The burn mark bleeds through the cosmoline, and Vance always makes a point of replicating this feature.  These were used control arms that my good friend Dave H. managed to provide from a parts car.  Not only were they absolutely without any pitting or rust (even at the tip, so maybe they were dunked all the way!!), but they also had date codes literally within a day or two of my original control arms.  Thanks again, Dave!!! 

[hemigeno]

Wonder if anyone else has had this same problem with a camshaft...

The pics below are of the hydraulic roller cam that Vance ordered to use in my new engine.  Something didn't look right, so he started checking a few things.  As it turns out, Comp Cams "forgot" to finish the machine work!  The oil passage that is supposed to go all the way through the cam bearing was only machined with the pilot hole on both sides.  The hole was smaller than it should have been, was not chamfered, and only went in about 3/4" on each boss - WITHOUT going all the way through.  I'd have lost that cam in no time at all.

If that wasn't bad enough, the bottom two pictures show the oil pump eccentric that was not finish-machined either.  It was rough as an old cob, and that would have chewed up the oil pump pushrod.

Needless to say, Vance got on the horn and chewed some major butt with his contacts at Comp Cams.  They, of course, volunteered to take the cam back and finish up the machine work.  Both Vance and I were a little leery of installing the cam in my engine even after they supposedly did their job right this time, but we didn't know what else to do.

I've never had a bad experience with Comp Cams, and have used their stuff going back to the early 80s during my misguided GM/Pontiac phase...

[hemigeno]

The first picture is another of the cam bearing bosses with incomplete machining.  Someone obviously fell asleep at the switch on this one...

For those who are wondering what cam specs Vance was using for my engine, I snapped a couple of pictures of the card showing all the cam's vitals.  His goal was to get a stock sounding cam, that runs WAY better than stock.  He's used this formula before with great results, and since he's also handling all the head/manifold porting work I think it's best to leave the cam selection up to him.  I specifically asked/wanted to go with a hydraulic roller tappet cam, as that opens up a world of possibilities from increased lobe ramp speeds, longer durations, etc. which are just not possible with a flat tappet cam.

[hemigeno]

Well, that's all the pictures I have to post at the moment.  Hope I haven't bored you guys to tears!

I am slated to stop by Vance's shop this weekend, so perhaps it won't take me nearly six months to post another batch of pictures this time... 

[Ghoste]

Those were great Geno! 

[UFO]

Great detail pics Gene. Thanks for posting them.
I have a trunk decal with similar marking on the back.
Judging by the part number I think I got it from Jim Osborn reproductions.Still have his catalog so I can see if it is indeed from him.

[PocketThunder]

You've only got about 359 days left to get it done for Talledega..... 

[hemigeno]

You've only got about 359 days left to get it done for Talledega..... 

Thanks for the reminder...  I think...   

While my ultimate goal is indeed making it to Talladega, I had also hoped to take it to Carlisle '09 and maybe the 'Nats depending on my work schedule this summer.  That's a lot less than 359 days, but it is still very possible to do - as long as I can get some decent rubber seal material for the nosecone.

Great detail pics Gene. Thanks for posting them.
I have a trunk decal with similar marking on the back.
Judging by the part number I think I got it from Jim Osborn reproductions.Still have his catalog so I can see if it is indeed from him.

Thanks for the input, Brian.  I've already modified my earlier text.  While my backing is slightly different than the one you have and the hand-written part number is different, the chances of it being a reproduction went up exponentially.  Is Jim Osborn still in business?  Hate to say it, but I've not heard of him.  I'll ask David if he remembers that - and I probably shouldn't have said anything about David's opinion anyway.  Every time I call him he's being pulled in about a thousand directions at once.  I probably ambushed him a little with the question I posed about the decal, so he might come to a different conclusion if given enough time and a little direction on the Jim Osborn angle.

Those were great Geno! 

Thanks, Ghoste!   

[moparstuart]

Sorry to hear you didnt find the right material for the radiator air deflector seals .  It makes a great story now to add to your restroration , great pictures thank for taking us along on your adventure .

[69_500]

That is quite a batch of photo's to post there Gene. Things look great, in my humble opinion that is. Can't wait to get a chance to swing up there again and check the car out in person again. maybe by that time they will be ready for some more painting.

[UFO]

Just googled him, looks like they're still around.
http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/

I bought that decal close to 20 years ago.

[WINGR]

Hey Gene, how are you doing? She's coming along great, looking good. Can't wait to see it at Dega, or maybe sooner. 

WINGR/Steve

[hemigeno]

Hey Steve, how's it going?  If you're really bored this weekend, I'll be at Vance's shop in Grand Haven on Saturday morning.  C'mon by if you get the chance...


Thanks again, everyone!

[hemigeno]

Just googled him, looks like they're still around.
http://www.osborn-reproduction.com/

I bought that decal close to 20 years ago.

The guy I bought the decal from had purchased his a loooong time ago also, which partially led to my belief it could have been a Chrysler decal.  I looked at their site, and they don't offer that particular jack instruction decal any longer.  Wonder why?  There wasn't anything wrong with this one as far as I know...   

[FJMG]

    I purchased a set of seals over 20 years ago that were reproduced by the owner of a very low mileage car. Only thing is, I'm not sure how fussy he was back then in obtaining exact material and I did not think (back then) to compare these with his originals. I took pics to try to demonstrate the stiffness and texture but I'm not sure if they will post well.

[WINGR]

Hey Gene, how was your trip? Thanks for the invite, I wish I could have came out to see you and the Daytona. My to do list is still weighing pretty heavy and I am running out of time before the S word hits. How was she looking, is the paint completed yet? Look forward to more pics. Take care.

Steve

[hemigeno]

    I purchased a set of seals over 20 years ago that were reproduced by the owner of a very low mileage car. Only thing is, I'm not sure how fussy he was back then in obtaining exact material and I did not think (back then) to compare these with his originals. I took pics to try to demonstrate the stiffness and texture but I'm not sure if they will post well.

Robert,

Wow, that's some pretty stiff material.  Wish I could get one of the MFG's to make me something that hard/stiff in the material I've asked about.  Everything seems to be a tradeoff though. 

If you look at the surface graining of the seal itself in your picture, there is almost a "denim" or fabric grid pattern embedded in the rubber.  In fact, the manufacturers routinely use layers of cloth literally inserted in the rubber sheets to add tensile strength and stiffness.  As your pieces show, the cloth inserts work pretty well for that purpose.  I had several sales reps suggest going this route if my main goal was to obtain a rigid piece of rubber sheathing, but I'm actually more interested in the look/texture/feel of the rubber than the stiffness.

The original rubber material had what the rubber guys call a "loose fiber embed" or a "random fiber insert", or terminology to that effect.  I've torn a small piece of the original seal, and a lot of fibrous material will stick out.  The loose fibers are all the way through the rubber mixture, which is typical for that formulation.  Also, the surface of the seal is not smooth, but is somewhat pebbled - and has no pattern to it.  From what I'm being told, the modern rubber formulations (and almost certainly the vintage formulations as well) with random fibers are inherently not as stiff as what they can make with the fabric inserts.  Like I said, it's a tradeoff.

Vance and I were talking on Saturday, and he is still pretty convinced that the original seal material **when new** was not nearly as stiff as the 40 year old material we're examining now.  That's the same thing every single rubber sales rep has said as well.  As a result, Vance is not quite as concerned with how stiff the material is, as long as they make it as hard/stiff as the manufacturing techniques allow.  I don't remember if I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread, but the way they get the rubber to be harder is by lengthening the time the batch is mixed, allowing the curing process to proceed further in the mixing vat.  There is a very fine line between letting it get as hard as possible, and having a batch "set up" inside the mixing vat before it can be removed and rolled into sheets.  When that happens, they have to shut the vat down, disassemble the mixing blades, and chip the cured rubber off of the blades, mixing arms, vat sides, etc.  It's a huge deal.  For that reason, they don't usually push the envelope when it comes to making a batch of rubber - and there's probably little I can do to convince them otherwise.  Their reluctance to go any farther on the curing process shouldn't matter in the end, as 40 years from now any reproduction rubber I manage to find will almost certainly be just as hard and stiff as the original stuff.  The manufacturers of the original rubber material had the same inherent limitations in 1969 as we do now.

I'll post some pictures I snapped this morning of the original rubber material and one of the 4 or 5 different repro material samples that have been sent.