hemigeno's Daytona restoration - a few more tweaks... again!

[kw mopar]

Great pics. and detail. I installed my A pillar trim a few months ago and yes A bit of work. They cleared the doors fine but some of the original screw holes were a bit of a fight especially windshield side, (large gap) no wonder they used a wide bead of butyl. Car is lookin good Geno.

[tan top]

good pictures Geno 

[maxwellwedge]

Geno,
More great pictures of all the details! The one item that I would like to comment on is the NOS rear license plate lamp shield. I work on a hot dip galvanize line! Rob who polished our glass told me he could stamp out a new transmission dust shield if I could get the steel. So at the end of production runs I have been trying differant variables to recreate that larger "SPANGLE". That is our term for the pattern of that galvanizing on the shield. So far I havn't been able to come close! I have been told by an old metalurgist that it is because we no longer run the high lead content? I have attached a picture that has a nice used transmission dust shield and a newer one with the superceded stamping and you can see the much finer pattern of spangle compared to the original. If I take a part and put it into the molten metal it will warp before it gets hot enough for the galvanizing to stick@#$^&*((! I am still trying! I am hoping you stop by and deliver the hose and check out the R4 Daytona!
Mopar John

Hey John - I have tried galvanizing various parts up here as well. The original parts were punched from pre-galvanized sheet. I did some head light buckets that were too shiny and slightly rough. I threw them in my tumbler after and they came out pretty darned nice. I wish I had a bigger tumbler for the bigger stuff.

[hemigeno]

Wow, that is something I was not aware of. Can I assume the 500's were treated the same way? Or did Creative learn of this issue by the way the 500's went down the road? I'm assuming this is too keep water from gushing behind the A-pillar moldings while driving down the highway? If nothing else, the restoration on my 500 just got a little more complicated.

Geno, your car looks awesome and I cannot thank you enough for the wealth of information you have provided here. I really appreciate all the time and effort you've dedicated to this site, and I will definitely will be using it as a resource. Not that I'm in any position to ask for anything, but I would love to see how the A-pillar trim looks after you remove the excess butyl tape. Do you guys have a specific method for removing it? Thanks again...

Mike

Thanks for the compliment, Mike - I do appreciate it, and am glad that at least some folks are benefitting from this long ordeal of mine.

As for the sealant at the A-pillar trim, one of the purposes was to keep water getting behind the trim or from following along the attachment screw that goes through the windshield gasket.  They definitely had to butcher up the gasket to attach the A-pillar trim, which is perhaps why they revamped the Superbird version.  I'm not sure if there was an aerodynamic "smoothing" function for the sealer in addition to weatherization (could be??).

There won't be any more work done to the sealant strip you see in the photos.  As crude as it is, that's the way it will stay.  Below is a picture taken from a 11,000mi Daytona that has been in storage since the mid '70s for comparison.

[hemigeno]

Geno,
More great pictures of all the details! The one item that I would like to comment on is the NOS rear license plate lamp shield. I work on a hot dip galvanize line! Rob who polished our glass told me he could stamp out a new transmission dust shield if I could get the steel. So at the end of production runs I have been trying differant variables to recreate that larger "SPANGLE". That is our term for the pattern of that galvanizing on the shield. So far I havn't been able to come close! I have been told by an old metalurgist that it is because we no longer run the high lead content? I have attached a picture that has a nice used transmission dust shield and a newer one with the superceded stamping and you can see the much finer pattern of spangle compared to the original. If I take a part and put it into the molten metal it will warp before it gets hot enough for the galvanizing to stick@#$^&*((! I am still trying! I am hoping you stop by and deliver the hose and check out the R4 Daytona!
Mopar John

Thanks for the info on galvanizing, John.  I forgot about your coined term "spangle", but remembered the general discussion about how difficult it was to replicate.  You'd be in a much better position than most everyone for experimenting, although the makeup of hot-dip tank chemicals is probably the key.  Changes in the EPA regulations may have effectively eliminated any possibility of replicating some things like this, although there's probably good reasons why a few of those changes were made. 

  Just thinkin' out loud here... but could you tin the steel (coat it with tin or lead) prior to dipping just to see if it produced a different result?   

I definitely want to stop by and see your R4 car - and drool over your B5 car again too.  Most times when I'm headed north it's a rush-rush trip, although the next trip up may give me a better opportunity for an extra stop (long story).

[hemi68charger]

...
As for the sealant at the A-pillar trim, one of the purposes was to keep water getting behind the trim or from following along the attachment screw that goes through the windshield gasket.  They definitely had to butcher up the gasket to attach the A-pillar trim, which is perhaps why they revamped the Superbird version.  I'm not sure if there was an aerodynamic "smoothing" function for the sealer in addition to weatherization (could be??).

There won't be any more work done to the sealant strip you see in the photos.  As crude as it is, that's the way it will stay.  Below is a picture taken from a 11,000mi Daytona that has been in storage since the mid '70s for comparison.

Wow.. I guess I can sleep a little bit better now knowing my a-pillars AREN'T all messed up with all the sealer I have on it... And to think I was going to clean it all up....  

Thanks Geno

[hemigeno]

Troy, it's your car - no one says you have to mess it all up like we're doing with mine! 

Just wait 'til you get a load of all the overspray headed for the engine compartment.

[hemi68charger]

Troy, it's your car - no one says you have to mess it all up like we're doing with mine! 

Just wait 'til you get a load of all the overspray headed for the engine compartment.

Oh no... I prefer it that way............ It's already got goop in the joints.. I'll leave well-enough along now. I'm guess the C500 was the same...............

[charger500440]

Wow, that is something I was not aware of. Can I assume the 500's were treated the same way? Or did Creative learn of this issue by the way the 500's went down the road? I'm assuming this is too keep water from gushing behind the A-pillar moldings while driving down the highway? If nothing else, the restoration on my 500 just got a little more complicated.

Geno, your car looks awesome and I cannot thank you enough for the wealth of information you have provided here. I really appreciate all the time and effort you've dedicated to this site, and I will definitely will be using it as a resource. Not that I'm in any position to ask for anything, but I would love to see how the A-pillar trim looks after you remove the excess butyl tape. Do you guys have a specific method for removing it? Thanks again...

Mike

Thanks for the compliment, Mike - I do appreciate it, and am glad that at least some folks are benefitting from this long ordeal of mine.

As for the sealant at the A-pillar trim, one of the purposes was to keep water getting behind the trim or from following along the attachment screw that goes through the windshield gasket.  They definitely had to butcher up the gasket to attach the A-pillar trim, which is perhaps why they revamped the Superbird version.  I'm not sure if there was an aerodynamic "smoothing" function for the sealer in addition to weatherization (could be??).

There won't be any more work done to the sealant strip you see in the photos.  As crude as it is, that's the way it will stay.  Below is a picture taken from a 11,000mi Daytona that has been in storage since the mid '70s for comparison.

Wow again. That's even more amazing to me. I never realized they did this at all, much less left it looking all hacked together. Thanks once again...

[hemigeno]

I wish I had a bigger tumbler for the bigger stuff.

Doesn't Mrs. JB have a clothes dryer you could 'borrow' next time she goes shopping with the girls?

Might have to pull a Tim the Tool Man Taylor and give the motor a little extra power to handle the additional weight - but you can handle it!!

[richRTSE]

Great pictures Geno, some amazing work going on there.   Especially like the A-pillar details. Interestingly on my 500, the drivers side trim only had 2 screws intalled, they missed the top one. Some fine quality control...

[maxwellwedge]

I wish I had a bigger tumbler for the bigger stuff.

Doesn't Mrs. JB have a clothes dryer you could 'borrow' next time she goes shopping with the girls?

Might have to pull a Tim the Tool Man Taylor and give the motor a little extra power to handle the additional weight - but you can handle it!!

Good Idea!!

[69_500]

Gene did you get a picture of the throttle cable and the date off the 11,xxx mile car? It not here it is for you.

[maxwellwedge]

Nice clean stamp - Were there white daubs on it - can't tell from the pic.

[69_500]

Only wound up with 5 pictures of that part, and I can't make out any daubs on it in any of them. Where was the inspection daub typically located on them? I'll try to see if its in the background in any of the other pictures of the car.

[maxwellwedge]

Usually about a 1/4 - 1/2 of it would have a streak of a color to denote its application. For example - a 70 Hemi E-Body would be a baby blue color.

[Mopar John]

Geno,
More great pictures of all the details! The one item that I would like to comment on is the NOS rear license plate lamp shield. I work on a hot dip galvanize line! Rob who polished our glass told me he could stamp out a new transmission dust shield if I could get the steel. So at the end of production runs I have been trying differant variables to recreate that larger "SPANGLE". That is our term for the pattern of that galvanizing on the shield. So far I havn't been able to come close! I have been told by an old metalurgist that it is because we no longer run the high lead content? I have attached a picture that has a nice used transmission dust shield and a newer one with the superceded stamping and you can see the much finer pattern of spangle compared to the original. If I take a part and put it into the molten metal it will warp before it gets hot enough for the galvanizing to stick@#$^&*((! I am still trying! I am hoping you stop by and deliver the hose and check out the R4 Daytona!
Mopar John

Hey John - I have tried galvanizing various parts up here as well. The original parts were punched from pre-galvanized sheet. I did some head light buckets that were too shiny and slightly rough. I threw them in my tumbler after and they came out pretty darned nice. I wish I had a bigger tumbler for the bigger stuff.

Jim,
That is what we make is coils of galvanized steel for the auto plants! We run continuous and make cuts at the begining and ends of the coils. When we start and finish the runs we have salvage type material where I can experiment. Then I can go dig these sheets out of the scrap box and see what the results are. The stuff I try to do by hand in the zinc bath is no where close. We run the steel into the bath at the same temprature as the zinc for the correct bond! I am still trying and just maybe when something is way out of spec it will be good for us and I'll grab all the scrap and get a pass for it!
John

[hemigeno]

Usually about a 1/4 - 1/2 of it would have a streak of a color to denote its application. For example - a 70 Hemi E-Body would be a baby blue color.

The 383/440-4 throttle cables seemed to have their white ID color pretty much all around the "shroud".  That's how the one currently on my car looks, and the one in Danny's pic was the same way.  Doesn't mean they were all made the same though.  BTW, thanks for posting the pic Danny - I didn't take a picture of that since I was too busy holding the end for you to take pictures with your real camera equipment...

Incidentally, '68-'70 B-body Hemi cables had a two-color ID coating - violet & black - that also seemed to cover the whole end as in the following pics (photo credit to Davtona):

[hemigeno]

Nice clean stamp - Were there white daubs on it - can't tell from the pic.

Only wound up with 5 pictures of that part, and I can't make out any daubs on it in any of them. Where was the inspection daub typically located on them? I'll try to see if its in the background in any of the other pictures of the car.

The white ID paint/coating is shown in Danny's pic - it's just about half flaked off and slightly discolored, but it covers the whole end.  Sorta the same mottled look as in the earlier picture of my cable's end.

[maxwellwedge]

Geno - Do your engineering binders show the different color codes on the throttle cables?

[hemigeno]

Yes they do, and they reference "blue" for the '70 E-body cables as you already mentioned.

[hemigeno]

Here are a few more pictures, taken last Saturday.

The car is inching closer and closer to completion.  More of the little detail items are being done, and we are gradually winnowing down the parts list. 

First up in this batch of pictures are some shots I took of the refurbished wheels.  Stockton Wheel took almost 9 months to get them done, but this was well worth the time.  Both Vance and I had numerous conversations with them trying to explain exactly what we wanted, and even sent them a couple of original wheels as a pattern to follow.  It's goes against every fiber of a chrome shop to intentionally do a bad job, but after one or two tries they did what both Vance and I think is a really, really good job of duplicating the "flash chrome" look.  It almost appears as if the surface has been shot-peened (it hasn't), and you can clearly see sanding marks from the prep work done to the exposed surfaces.  They are almost ready to do the blackout treatment in between the spokes and about 1/4" up around the outer rim/edge of the center section.  Originally, the wheel manufacturer had a more permanent jig that masked off the spokes, but tape will work just fine.  Vance peeled back a section of masking on each wheel for a peek at how they looked.  I was happy with how they look.

[hemigeno]

Another area they've been working on is the wing reinforcements that are spot-welded to the decklid drain trough.  In these pictures you can see that they've pulled back the weatherstripping and separated the original welds.  This was necessary since the reinforcements were slightly pitted and had been finished with a faux bare-steel paint.  Vance had to sand everything back down to bare metal, sand out the pitting, treat it with RPM to protect the finish, and then spot-weld them back in place.  You can see that they've primed the topside and are ready to apply bodycolor back to that area.  The underneath side now shows the bare metal reinforcement plates, along with spot welds put back in their original locations.  As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot more spot-welds on the passenger's side than the driver's side for whatever reason.  Guess the passenger's side installer got a little happy with the spot-welder...

Another interesting detail is that you can see in the second picture where the underneath side of the decklid drain trough was ground down to allow good contact between the reinforcement plate and the lip for solid welds.  The ground/prepped area usually extended a little past the plates.

[hemigeno]

Another cool detail that won't be seen once the package tray is installed is the lead splatters left on the speaker reinforcement.  The window plug at the top edge is not very wide, and it was not unusual for hot lead to drop through the window opening and land here.

I had taken pictures of another related area that Vance is still working on the same detail.  Rather than post the work in progress, I'll wait until he's finished the effect.  This is the inside of the original Charger "flying buttress" a/k/a sail panel, where the window plug was welded into place.  The hot lead filler would seep through the gap between the plug and the sail panel, leaving streaks down the side.  The last picture is a shot of that area of my car in this same area prior to disassembly so you can see the effect Vance is shooting to replicate.

[hemigeno]

Another detail Vance has been working on lately is the latchtray attachment bracket that is spot-welded to the radiator yoke.  I've pointed out what we did to the original bracket, and what we decided to do.  Here you can see the finished product.  Bare metal, with very visible spot welds.  Vance saved the original bracket, which would have been paper-thin by the time all the rust pits were sanded down.  It was pretty crusty.

Incidentally, this look is NOT correct for most Daytonas, since most of them received a coat of blackout paint across the top of this piece (and inside the nosecone area on any visible sections of fender sheetmetal that had gray primer showing).  David Patik has remarked in the past that perhaps 10% of cars had this blackout treatment omitted for whatever reason, and that's why we've followed suit on this particular restoration.  It's a neat detail, but not to be taken as a pattern for every car.