69 Dodge Charger 318 pulls down when In gear need help

[aarond66]

Hello, I have a 1969 Dodge Charger, 318 numbers matching. So although I would like something a little bigger, we kept the 318 because it is matching numbers. But a few years ago we did go through the engine, bored it out, bigger cam and such. Well in the last year we have gotten it back in shape. New brakes, some body work, paint, making it a damn nice looking car. It's almost road worthy!

Except!! We are still fighting an issue we have been fighting all along! It won't idea in gear. Or maybe I should say, it pulls down so far in gear, it about won't run. We did put a new Elderbrok Carb on it, thinking the quadrajet was the problem. And although it runs better, it didn't help. We put and 2800 stall torque converter in it, thinking it was engaging to soon, not letting go of the engine so to speak when you come up to a stop sign with your foot on the brake. But still Salome thing. Now nothing that we have done probably didn't need done anyways. For example we replaced the brake booster thinking it was a major vacuum leak, and although it didn't change anything, it did need replace as it was 5-0 years old. But now I'm running out of ideas! Can anyone help?

Basically right now it's idling at 1300 rpm, when you hold your foot on the brake, and put it in gear, it pulls the engine down to almost 500 rpm. Ao your going to ask why is it idling at 1300, well because if we set it down to more like 1100 or even 1000, when you go to put it in gear, and hold your foot on the brake, it pulls way down below 500 and try's to die. So then you have to give it a little gas to keep it running. I wouldn't think you should have to do that. For example, I would think you should be able to pull up to a stop sign, and come to a stop, just by holding the brake, and not hve to give it gas to keep it running. I did do a vacuum test, by hooking the gauge up to the carb at the vacuum advance port, and at idle is shows 14 lbs, and when it's in gear and idling at 500 it shows 5lbs. Which would make since, since it's idling slower. But you can't tell me I just have to leave it idling at 1300 rpm correct? When you go to put it in gear, the engine wants to jump out of there...

So something is not right, can someone help me please. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to get burnt out on hanging parts and getting no where.

Thanks I'm advance

[70 sublime]

Do you have parking brake hooked up ??

Maybe your new booster leaks also ?

Get the engine running at 1100 rpm then pull it in gear with the park brake on hard enough to hold it from moving and see if it wants to die again 

[b5blue]

points ignition?

[LaOtto70Charger]

Does it want to pull through the brakes? I think my 318 is set about 800 rpm and drops down when in idle in gear. Not sure how far as I don't have a tac except on the timing light.  When I first got the car back in 93 it would die when I pulled up to a stop light. Couldn't get that tuned out so I would go to neutral.  Would also 2 pedal a lot since lights would dim at idle anyway.

Currently I run about 32 degrees timing and I think 800 rpm fully warmed up and vacuum advanced disconnected. It doesn't  die at the light but does drop some rpm. If running lights or ac still have to throttle up due to voltage.

[Kern Dog]

A 318 with a stock cam will pull 20 inches of vacuum at idle at a minimum. Did you use some huge cam?

[aarond66]

Sorry guys I'm new at this forum, couldn't figure out how to reply to this each comment, so I'm just dropping my own comment.

Yes it is points ignition. And we replaced everything except the vacuum advance.

Yes it does have a bigger Cam,

Before we change the torque converter, yes it would try driving through the brakes. With the new converter it does not try to drive through the brakes.

It just has to be idling at 1300, if you try idling it down to 1000, when you put it in gear it will die. So keeping it up around 1300, makes it so when you do out it in gear holding the brake it may idle down to 500, but it actually stays running.

The other comment about the vacuum advance, and unhooking it, that is about the only thing we haven't messed with. But I thought the vacuum advance only operated at like 3500 rpm, like when your really getting in to it.

And lastly, the timing, I am not sure exactly where it's at, because it's retard back past the little numbers down on the block, i want to say it's like 14 maybe 16. We have basically timed it by ear.

Thanks for all the comments guys! And I hope that added some more light. If you think of anything else let me know please!

[John_Kunkel]

If you apply the brakes with your left foot and use your right foot on the throttle, can you keep the engine running when you drop it into gear? If so, the converter isn't likely the problem.

Converters often get the blame for no idling in gear but it's usually the tuneup that's at fault.

[whitehatspecial]

I would check the distributor. May be worn advance springs, or shaft bearing.

[Kern Dog]

My brother had a 78 D 100 with a slant six.....It would idle fine but stall when he put it into gear. He was short on cash so we started trading parts from a slant six 75 Dart that I had.
It turns out the spark plug wires were bad. The load of being put into gear was too much for the wires. Too much internal resistance.....The used but still good wires from the Dart allowed it to idle the same but run fine in gear. It accelerated like normal afterward too. I ended up just giving him the old wires and buying new ones for my Dart.

[doctor4766]

A 318 with a stock cam will pull 20 inches of vacuum at idle at a minimum. Did you use some huge cam?

I was thinking along similar lines.
When we rebuilt the 383 in my 69 we had all manner of issues getting it to run and idle well. Even removed the brake booster because the vacuum was too low to operate it.
It turned out that the cam Mancini supplied was incorrectly packaged and instead of a mild/stockish cam it was a 509 lift that didn't suit our application. They reckon it's not uncommon to find them misidentified from new. It was a bit late to tell me that there's a color coded dot on the end of the shaft that should have been checked

[b5blue]

So no idea true timing? Gap for points? (Dwell) Check voltage @ the coil. Check ALT. charging @ idle. Disconnect vac. and plug the line, tune timing for high idle and check again. 

[INTMD8]

The details matter.  What cam exactly?

Stock compression ratio?

Shouldn't need to idle that high unless the cam is ridiculous.

Probably need to limit mechanical advance and run a lot more initial timing.