lost my oil pressure

69 rt · August 31, 2008, 06:57:34 PM

Hi all,

Was driving to a cruise the other evening in my 69rt 440, all was going well showing around 30 psi oil pressure and stopped for gas. When I fired it up I noticed that the oil pressure did not rise stayed at zero, so I shut it off and checked the oil, it was full and there was no leaks. I thought it might be the gauge so I pulled out and within a 1/4 mile it started tapping so I pulled in a parking lot and shut it off and then called a roll back to get it home. I could use some suggestions as where to start looking. The engine was a total rebuild around 1200 miles ago with a new oil pump.

Thanks

oldschool · August 31, 2008, 07:08:54 PM

pull the oil pump drive gear. see if the end that goes into the oil pump is broke or striped. its happend to me a couple of times...........

69 rt · August 31, 2008, 08:09:24 PM

Ok Thanks, I will look at that first.

ACUDANUT · August 31, 2008, 08:48:37 PM

let me know how that worked. Was it a mechanical or electrical guage

?

General_01 · August 31, 2008, 09:00:55 PM

Quote from: ACUDANUT on August 31, 2008, 08:48:37 PM
let me know how that worked. Was it a mechanical or electrical guage ?

Why would that matter? Whatever one it was it was working because he already confirmed it was correct. He has zero oil pressure, therefore the drive gear for the pump is gone, or maybe a plug came out in the rear or in the front under the timing cover.

RD · August 31, 2008, 09:12:14 PM

30 psi is low in my book (dependent upon the type of oil you are running). dont think a 3/8" plug would have come out.. those are in there if you know what i mean.

check your oil pan for any metal shavings or metallic looking material, if there is describe it or take a picture. we will go from there.

General_01 · August 31, 2008, 09:20:46 PM

Would he lose oil presure like that if he spun a cam bearing?

I agree about the plugs, just someplace else to check. If I am not mistaken, these are screwed in, at least from what I have seen. Unless they are just plugs and people have threaded the holes during a rebuild?

ACUDANUT · August 31, 2008, 09:44:05 PM

Never hurts to check gauges. I have had more than my share of gauges working one minute and quit the next. Usually it was because I used a cheap aftermarket gauge made in China.

69 rt · September 01, 2008, 06:00:24 AM

It is a standard electric gauge, but I don't think that is the problem as it did start making a tapping noise shortly after I started the engine. I also did not like only 30 psi oil pressure but that is all I ever had from when it was re-built. After break in all I use is Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Do you all agree with that type of oil?

69 rt · September 01, 2008, 06:55:58 AM

Also what is the best procedure for taking out the gear drive for inspection?

firefighter3931 · September 01, 2008, 07:11:42 AM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 01, 2008, 06:00:24 AM

After break in all I use is Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Do you all agree with that type of oil?

Wait until the third oil change before going to synthetic....this will give the rings ample opportunity to seat up. Use an EP additive like EOS with each oil change to protect the cam and lifters.

1st oil change right after breakin/initial fireup...2nd oil change @ 500 miles then normal intervals, afterwards.

Quote from: 69 rt on September 01, 2008, 06:55:58 AM
Also what is the best procedure for taking out the gear drive for inspection?

You will need to pull the distributor to acess the oil pump drive gear/shaft. Inspect the tip as mentioned above but also look at the pressed gear and make sure it's still tight. MP (and others) sell a hardened tipped OP drive that is also pinned to the shaft.

Ron

69 rt · September 01, 2008, 07:39:27 AM

That is good info thank you!

General_01 · September 01, 2008, 12:26:27 PM

Also, remember to pull the distributor cap and mark where the rotor is at so you can put it back in correctly. This will save you from trying to find TDC again to put it in.

69 rt · September 02, 2008, 09:06:26 AM

Well guys I went out this morning and pulled the oil pump gear and it looks good, I then drained the oil and removed the filter and cut it apart for inspection and everything was clean no metal, I guess the next item will be changing the pump, do you agree or should I check something else first?

69 rt · September 02, 2008, 01:07:29 PM

I took the pump off the engine and the inner and outer rotors were pretty scarred so I ordered a new HP pump. I hope that is my problem. The scarring more than likely occurred when one of the lobes on my cam shaft along with the push rod from my fuel pump was wiped out awhile back

ACUDANUT · September 02, 2008, 02:23:33 PM

You did a total rebuild and reused the old oil pump ?

RD · September 02, 2008, 02:25:51 PM

i think he was just saying that he put in a new camshaft and fuel pump rod, not a total rebuild. i would not have thought about replacing the oil pump at that time either.

69 rt · September 02, 2008, 02:51:40 PM

Sorry for the confusion, I had the engine rebuilt when I was restoring the car, The builder was supposed to replace the oil pump during the rebuild. After driving the car approx 700 miles it quit and upon inspection found the fuel push rod had been worn down approx 3/8 th inch and the lobe on the cam shaft was worn so at that time I replaced the cam shaft and push rod, thinking it was a defective cam shaft. Now this problem occurred and I assume the oil pump scarring came about when the fuel push rod wore down. What do you think?

RD · September 02, 2008, 02:56:44 PM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 02, 2008, 02:51:40 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I had the engine rebuilt when I was restoring the car, The builder was supposed to replace the oil pump during the rebuild. After driving the car approx 700 miles it quit and upon inspection found the fuel push rod had been worn down approx 3/8 th inch and the lobe on the cam shaft was worn so at that time I replaced the cam shaft and push rod, thinking it was a defective cam shaft. Now this problem occurred and I assume the oil pump scarring came about when the fuel push rod wore down. What do you think?

i stand corrected. if you had a total rebuild and the oil pump was not replaced.... well that is a big no-no. knowing that and the fact that you only had 30psi tells me your oil pump has crapped out on you. luckily you have not found any metallic flakes or fragments, that is a plus. Replace the oil pump, add new oil, run it, check your oil pressure, change the oil again, and see how it goes. i am interested to see what your psi rating is after the new oil pump.

firefighter3931 · September 02, 2008, 04:25:11 PM

When internal engine parts wear down that fast (fuel pump rod, cam etc...) the engine gets filled with those tiny metal particles. They usually make their way into the rod & main bearings as well as the oil pump and create all kinds of damage...as you've seen allready.

This type of failure requires a complete rebuild (crank turned, new main/rod/cam bearings and sometimes a rebore) for the engine to be "right".

I would be dropping the oilpan and looking at the rod/main bearings.

Ron

69 rt · September 03, 2008, 06:27:26 AM

Thanks Ron,

Good info, What are the odds I could have escaped with no other damage? or is it likely I will need a tear down.

firefighter3931 · September 03, 2008, 07:00:17 AM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 03, 2008, 06:27:26 AM
Thanks Ron,

Good info, What are the odds I could have escaped with no other damage? or is it likely I will need a tear down.

It's difficult to predict what you'll find. I've seen it go both ways.....bad oilpump but "usable" bearings. I've also seen them where both the oilpump and bearings were wasted as well as the cylinder walls (rebore time) needed attention.

Pull the pan and inspect would be my advice. A compression test wouldn't hurt either

Ron

69 rt · September 03, 2008, 07:13:11 AM

OK, I will pull the pan, good advise, one other question. After I replace the oil pump should I prime it prior to starting the engine and if so is there a tool available to use with a drill to prime it?

john108 · September 03, 2008, 12:56:53 PM

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC%2D4286800&autoview=sku

john108 · September 03, 2008, 12:58:49 PM

I hit post too soon.
DCC-4286800 Oil Pump Primer, Mopar, V8 $7.88

62 Max · September 03, 2008, 01:01:18 PM

Since you have the pump off,you may want to take the cap off and check the relief valve.They have been known to stick.Also,on a rebuild you should have more than 30lb pressure.A pump has to be pretty bad to make no more than 30lb.As for you engine builder I would have seconds thoughts after reading your post.

69 rt · September 03, 2008, 01:48:18 PM

Your right, You hear good things about a shop and in the end you can be one of the unlucky ones. It is possible giving the guy the benefit of the doubt that is was one missed out of many. I hope!

firefighter3931 · September 03, 2008, 07:25:32 PM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 03, 2008, 07:13:11 AM
OK, I will pull the pan, good advise, one other question. After I replace the oil pump should I prime it prior to starting the engine and if so is there a tool available to use with a drill to prime it?

The priming rod that john linked to above will work fine....use a drill and rotate counerclockwise. You might have to keep rotating the engine over until the #4 cam bearing is lined up with the oil hole and you see oil coming from both rocker shafts. I also like to use a little white grease inside the pump to help it prime.

Good luck.

Ron

69 rt · September 03, 2008, 10:26:45 PM

I sent for the tool you mentioned and I want to thank all who have responded for you help.

69 rt · September 06, 2008, 07:10:22 AM

Well I think I got lucky, checked everything out and as far as I could tell there was no damage. I replaced the oil pump and now show around 62lbs of pressure at start up and after it is warm it carries around 43. The engine sounds good no Knocks. Thanks for your advise.

firefighter3931 · September 06, 2008, 07:15:30 AM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 06, 2008, 07:10:22 AM
Well I think I got lucky, checked everything out and as far as I could tell there was no damage. I replaced the oil pump and now show around 62lbs of pressure at start up and after it is warm it carries around 43. The engine sounds good no Knocks. Thanks for your advise.

Yep, you did get lucky !

Did you look at any of the main/rod bearings ?

Ron

RD · September 06, 2008, 02:45:49 PM

what oil you running? is it a stock oil pump? curious is all, not worried.

CB · September 06, 2008, 05:42:05 PM

wow Stenton, glad to see it turned out well with your beautiful R/T!!

CB

69 rt · September 07, 2008, 05:31:59 AM

Thanks CB, sometimes we get lucky, Also for RD I use Mobil 1 synthetic with an additive, the oil pump I replaced is a H/P stock mounted pump.

69 rt · September 08, 2008, 08:20:32 PM

Well guys I am back to square one, put on the new pump, changed the oil and filter and went for a drive. As the engine got warmed up the oil pressure dropped to 25lbs. Drove the car home, shut it off and then after 20 minutes I started it up and the oil pressure stayed at zero and it started making lifter noise. I shut it down and pulled the distributer and attempted to pull oil using my drill and the oil pump tool with no luck. I drained the oil and removed the pan and checked the pickup tube and strainer, both good. I then pulled the cap off one of the main bearings and it looked ok. My question is even with a new pump could the pressure relief valve be sticking and causing the problem? I removed the spring and valve and it also looked and worked ok. I am sure someone on the site has had this problem so any help would be appreciated. The gear that drives the pump is good.

Thanks

ACUDANUT · September 09, 2008, 07:58:22 AM

Damn, again ? Where is this pressure relief valve with a spring in a oil pump ? Never heard of it ??

superblu72 · September 09, 2008, 10:04:30 AM

Have you taken off your valve covers? I had the zero oil pressure happen to me twice w/tapping sounds. Turn out that on the one I bent a pushrod and it thru the lifter out of the bore and the other broke ball/cup end off pushrush and also thru a lifter out of it's bore.

firefighter3931 · September 09, 2008, 11:40:18 AM

Quote from: 69 rt on September 08, 2008, 08:20:32 PM
Well guys I am back to square one, put on the new pump, changed the oil and filter and went for a drive. As the engine got warmed up the oil pressure dropped to 25lbs. Drove the car home, shut it off and then after 20 minutes I started it up and the oil pressure stayed at zero and it started making lifter noise. I shut it down and pulled the distributer and attempted to pull oil using my drill and the oil pump tool with no luck. I drained the oil and removed the pan and checked the pickup tube and strainer, both good. I then pulled the cap off one of the main bearings and it looked ok. My question is even with a new pump could the pressure relief valve be sticking and causing the problem? I removed the spring and valve and it also looked and worked ok. I am sure someone on the site has had this problem so any help would be appreciated. The gear that drives the pump is good.

Thanks

Inspect the oil pump drive closely.....make sure the gear is pressed onto the shaft firmly. I've seen a few that "looked" good but the gear was loose. I prefer to run the pinned oil pump drives for this very reason.

Ron

six-tee-nine · September 09, 2008, 12:36:08 PM

Ron,

about the pinned drives...... what make do you mean then?

(trying to learn about this stuff)

firefighter3931 · September 10, 2008, 12:46:46 PM

Quote from: six-tee-nine on September 09, 2008, 12:36:08 PM
Ron,

about the pinned drives...... what make do you mean then?

(trying to learn about this stuff)

Several vendors sell them....Mopar Performance, Milidon, 440 Source.

Ron

69 rt · September 10, 2008, 03:04:49 PM

Well here is the latest on my problem. After two days of checking the main bearings which were in very good shape and gauged ok using plastigauge, changing the oil and filter, removing the oil pump and checking the pressure relief valve. I put it all back together and primed the pump and took it for a drive of approx 30 miles. The pressure started out at 62lbs and did not drop below 40, so all I can think is the pressure relief valve must have stuck. I hope this info might help one of you all if this problem ever happens to you.

69 rt

ACUDANUT · September 10, 2008, 07:10:21 PM

Pressure relief valve must have stuck

Where is this valve that you are refering to ??

62 Max · September 10, 2008, 08:33:09 PM

Right here.

ACUDANUT · September 11, 2008, 11:32:09 AM

WOW, I guess I never knew that. Thanks

troy.70R/T · February 25, 2009, 07:52:27 PM

so is that oil pump priming tool just a pieace of 3/8 hex shaft? That would only cost me $1.00 At My local steel supplier?

Charger-Bodie · February 27, 2009, 08:23:15 AM

Quote from: troy.70R/T on February 25, 2009, 07:52:27 PM
so is that oil pump priming tool just a pieace of 3/8 hex shaft? That would only cost me $1.00 At My local steel supplier?

It is. BUT its heat treaded to a hardness as to not wear ot fast.

If you will only use it a couple times I dont think it would be a problem.

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lost my oil pressure