Chrysler is dead

[nh_mopar_fan]

Well, I wanted another ragtop and so the Sebring ended up being the best option.

This is a 2008 with *2000* miles on it. Just traded by an old guy who has more money than he knows what to do with. Brought it in for an oil change and wanted the Mercedes he found on the lot.

Sticker on this thing last May was over 33 grand. It's loaded.

Based on what I paid for it, I'd guess he got about 50% back on that in trade.

That's crazy.

[BLUE68RT4ME]

Without pissing anyone off... take a look around.  I think every manufacturer has their problems.  I owned a '97 and '01 Jetta, the '97 ran great until one cold morning it wouldn't start.  I couldn't get it to run for the life of me, even after putting it in the garage to warm up.  After that day, it never started well again nor did it idle.  Had an import shop that specialized in VW's look at it and couldn't figure it out.  My '01, well... the windows fell in the doors, the coils failed, the heated seat failed, the tail lights kept burning out, the mass air flow sensor constantly failed, the crank position sensor went out, the timing belt broke 30k miles earlier than suggested replacement, turbo bypass valve went to hell, and the cam chain tensioner went out.  Bought the car at 30K and all this happened between 30k and 100k.

Meanwhile, I've owned to Neons and passed both on to my mother.  The 95' had 180k on it last I heard and the '01 has 170k and still going.  I have friends with Dodge trucks that are great, and other cars too.  I also have friends whose Chevys, Pontiacs, Fords, Nissans, etc have given them a bad time.  Especially in the world of electronics, the room for failure is everywhere.  I think it's hit or miss.

Most cars models are sold for 4-5 years.  I'd never buy a 4-5th year model because they've cut so much cost out of the car by then that you're certain to get the cheapest crap available.  What do you do?  Some models are more prone than others, but all manufacturers have their turd(s).   

[Bobs69]

"Most cars models are sold for 4-5 years.  I'd never buy a 4-5th year model because they've cut so much cost out of the car by then that you're certain to get the cheapest crap available.  What do you do?   Some models are more prone than others, but all manufacturers have their turd(s)."   

Never thought of that...............good point!

[472 R/T SE]

I thought Chrysler was dead to you?

It's nice that you bought another Chrysler product but I hope you don't come bitching on here if something goes wrong. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just a little confused.

[bk72]

my moms 2006 pt cruiser runs really bad. it struggles to get past 65mph  , it get 13mpg in the city and 15 on the highway, it is the 4 cyl, it has 30,000 miles and when she got it it has 10,000 miles. i had to replace a lot of things on it after the 3 year warranty ran out , and it is not worth that much either  , on the other side my dads 2005 dodge caravan SXT runs great except when we first got it the power door had to be fixed 2 times( they paid 4 it  ) and it has needed 2 water pumps( they paid 4 it  ). now it need a some other part that does something with the gas that they are paying for too  . it has 41000 miles. and i really love old mopars and i would always rather drive them.   

[Charger666]

PT Cruisers are the worst               

[bk72]

yep and the 2006 are really bad. i would like to drop a new motor in it 

[nh_mopar_fan]

I thought Chrysler was dead to you?

It's nice that you bought another Chrysler product but I hope you don't come bitching on here if something goes wrong. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just a little confused.

Old habits die hard.

Like I said, as far as ragtops go, my choices were limited. I wasn't going to drop stupid money on any of the imports and the Stang is too small with no trunk space.

I also just read up on the improved quality over the last year or two thanks to bringing in Doug Betts who led Toyota and Nissan's quality improvements.

As far as bitching, I am expecting a few years of issue free driving. If I run into issues, why the hell can't I bitch about the quality? That makes zero sense.

[472 R/T SE]

Yeah man knock yerself out.  If you wanna rag on a product and then go out & buy it, more power to ya'.  I just find it odd is all, nothin' more. 
Surely I'm not the only one who sees the irony of it. 


This new rig have the 2.7 power plant?

[nh_mopar_fan]

yeah and the sludge issues have been resolved.

Wait, does this mean that I am bitching about those years when the 2.7 was a boat anchor inside of 80K?


Uh, nevermind. 

[Aero426]

my moms 2006 pt cruiser runs really bad. it struggles to get past 65mph  , it get 13mpg in the city and 15 on the highway, it is the 4 cyl, it has 30,000 miles

Something has to be seriously wrong for a 4 banger to get 13-15 mpg.     

[nh_mopar_fan]

Here's the article on Doug Betts that I referred to earlier:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/10/autos/chrysler_quality/index.htm?section=money_latest 

Chrysler's attack on crummy quality
Even the government has called quality an issue for the carmaker's survival. Doug Betts' job is to fix it.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: April 10, 2009: 5:13 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If you've ever worked in customer service, you know what the wrath of a dissatisfied client feels like. Now just think what Doug Betts, Chrysler's Chief Customer Officer, has to face every day in his job.

Chrysler has become the poster child for poor quality. The government flamed the company on this very issue when it decided it wouldn't give it the billions it needed to survive.

But more importantly, people who've paid tens of thousands of dollars for a Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep are not pleased. It's Betts' job to face these unhappy customers and fix the problems they bring to him.

Not a single product Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep sells is currently recommended by Consumer Reports, largely because of below average "predicted reliability" as measured by owner surveys. Chrysler brands also rank low in J.D. Power surveys of dependability and usability.

Betts job is to find exactly what's wrong with Chrysler's current crop of products, how to get it fixed and how to make sure future products stand out for the right reasons.

Progress has already been made, he said, and will begin showing up in surveys over the next year or so. The 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee, with its richer interior treatments, is the first Chrysler vehicle to show Betts' influence in a big way. Basically, he's redefining priorities and making sure the designers' work actually makes it into the finished product.

Betts has some experience in this area, having worked for a decade at Toyota (TM) and three years at Nissan. At Nissan he tackled quality glitches by introducing programs similar to the ones he's now put in place at Chrysler.

In 2003, the year before Betts jointed Nissan, Consumer Reports magazine recommended five Nissan models. By 2008, the year after he left, the magazine recommended 11. This year, 14 made the list.

Recommendations for Chrysler vehicles fell from four to zero over that time period, even though it had more models in contention.

Count, measure and track
The basic strategy is to count, measure and log everything, keeping careful track of every problem a customer has with a car and tracing it back to the cause.

It also means keeping careful tabs on every vehicle in development to make sure that cost-cutting, a constant pressure at a company facing bankruptcy, doesn't leave Chrysler products feeling cheap and shoddy, as it has in the past.

Improvements are already showing up on current Chrysler products, Betts said. The results will start showing up in dependability surveys soon, he said, as these improved models are just now flowing into the market.

"We probably fixed a thousand problems last year," Betts said. He quickly corrected that figure to "probably more than a thousand."

In most cases, the fix will be something totally invisible to the end customer. For instance, the interlocking teeth on a plastic clip might not have been long enough, allowing a cable it held in place to vibrate loose and rattle. But, while the customer will never see that change, it could prevent an annoying problem later on.

Many different types of 'quality'
Last year, Betts boasts, Chrysler reduced the rate of warranty claims by 30%. In recent years, the average rate of improvement had been just 2.4%

But that's just one type of quality: Dependability. In Betts view, there are six distinct types of quality and Chrysler needs to do better in all of them:

Dependability (things not breaking)
Perceived quality (how solid and nice the car looks, feels and sounds)
Performance quality (how it rides and drives)
Regulatory quality (not getting recalled)
Service quality (being treated right by the dealer)
Dissatisfaction (nothing's wrong, customers just don't like the car)
To get to the bottom of all these, Betts surveys Chrysler customers relentlessly, usually by phone. Betts often listens in to the calls himself. Customers are interviewed shortly after they purchase and at intervals over the next few years.

"We had 30,000 interactions last month," he said.

The survey is simple: Would you recommend that someone buy this car from this dealer?

The answer is given on a one-to-ten scale.

"We want them to be "Hell, yeah!" said Betts, butthe people with a score of six or below are the ones that can provide valuable lessons.

"We hope to learn a lot from people with six or below," he said. "Those are detractors."

Detractors are the people who check the bad boxes on surveys and who complain to friends, family and in Internet postings, smearing the brand. For detractors, Betts said, he digs deeper trying to find out exactly where the problem was. The interviews are done over the phone so surveyors get a real sense of whether a customer is just a little annoyed or really ticked off.

When creating new cars and trucks, quantifying everything, including how customers feel about the fit and texture of interior parts, helps quality concerns compete against financial concerns. Financial concerns have always been easy to quantify, said Betts, that's why when a company is in financial trouble, interiors end up looking chintzy. Hard numbers always beat the wishy washy "it just doesn't look as nice."

"The irrational cost target is the arch enemy of the quality department," said Betts.

Now designers can fight back with their own numbers, telling the folks with the business plan that taking out wood trim, for example, or substituting cheaper switches will detract too much from customer value. That's a losing game.

Bridging continents
A partnership with Fiat, which the Treasury Department has said is critical to Chrysler's survival, will create some additional quality challenges. Fiat has gone through itsown quality improvement campaign resulting in better performance for the company in Europe. But European attitudes about quality are different from those in America.

European consumers are more concerned with "perceived quality," how their cars feel and sound, than dependability. They're less bothered than Americans by the occasional glitch or breakdown.

Meanwhile, American consumers resent breakdowns mightily but will put up with some dicey interior parts for a dependable car.

Betts has met with his counterpart at Fiat, who toured some of Chrysler's U.S. plants. The companies are on similar quality improvement paths, he said, but given their different strengths, there are things the two companies can learn from one another.

Cupholders, for instance. Europeans don't understand their need - it's a car, not a bar, they say - but American customers absolutely demand them.

"I don't understand it," he said. "They must not be very thirsty over there."

[Ghoste]

I only see good in that. 

[nh_mopar_fan]

I agree.

[resq302]

I thought Chrysler was dead to you?

It's nice that you bought another Chrysler product but I hope you don't come bitching on here if something goes wrong. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just a little confused.

Old habits die hard.

Like I said, as far as ragtops go, my choices were limited. I wasn't going to drop stupid money on any of the imports and the Stang is too small with no trunk space.

My dad was checking into replacing my moms 2003 sebring conv. with a new one.  Trunk space is horrible compared to the 2003 model my mom has.  The mustang conv. has just as much space as my moms current sebring conv.  Looks like she'll be getting a mustang conv. since they dont plan on making the chally vert anytime.

[mauve66]

If I run into issues, why the hell can't I bitch about the quality? That makes zero sense.

its fine to change your mind, its your money and your right
for 10 years straight i was able convince the wife to stay strictly mopar but when i had bill issues (not vehicle quality issues) the only thing decent (quality/price wise) i could find were other brands, Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevy Camaro, Ford Ranger.  the GP had tranny problems 4 mths after i got it, the camaro i bought cheap hoping to resell for profit, didn't happen, and the Ranger is still my work trk with no issues for it.
Everybody here makes a decision based on what is happening at the current moment, not what you wish would happen 10 years down the road.  like they said all makers have issues, i had 2 neons, 1st for only a year then upgraded to a new one cause i started a job that required alot of driving so i wanted to start with full warranty, the 2nd neon was alright until 40K when the water pump went then it was ok until 100K when all kinds of things started going wrong.  when i sold it, again i couldn't find anything worth a damn so i ended up with a ford focus, alternator went 3 wks after i got it

whats the saying..........  S$$$ happens............... and ya can't stop it either

[nh_mopar_fan]

I thought Chrysler was dead to you?

It's nice that you bought another Chrysler product but I hope you don't come bitching on here if something goes wrong. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, just a little confused.

Old habits die hard.

Like I said, as far as ragtops go, my choices were limited. I wasn't going to drop stupid money on any of the imports and the Stang is too small with no trunk space.

My dad was checking into replacing my moms 2003 sebring conv. with a new one.  Trunk space is horrible compared to the 2003 model my mom has.  The mustang conv. has just as much space as my moms current sebring conv.  Looks like she'll be getting a mustang conv. since they dont plan on making the chally vert anytime.

When I put the drivers seat all the way back on the Stang, it nearly hits the back seat.

[Rolling_Thunder]

my friend has a 2002 Pontiac Firehawk and he ran into the same problem (no rear leg room) - Alot of the LS guys replace the back seats with sub boxes or carpeted "shelves"

[resq302]

Lets face it.  Todays cars are not made really for seating 4 or 6 people like our chargers were!  Even our chally convert has a lack of leg room in the back seat with the front seat fully put back.  I guess the car manufacturers think that if we want to haul more than 2 adults around at a time, we will buy an SUV or a mini van.

[Ghoste]

If the greens are able to force their agenda on the car companies the way it appears to be heading, we'll all be driving microcars soon enough and "todays cars" will seem huge.

[TheGhost]

Cupholders, for instance. Europeans don't understand their need - it's a car, not a bar, they say - but American customers absolutely demand them.

"I don't understand it," he said. "They must not be very thirsty over there."

It's because we have drive-threws.

[Mike DC]

Europeans don't live 40% of their waking lives inside their cars. 

[BLUE68RT4ME]

Europeans don't live 40% of their waking lives inside their cars. 

They have time to drink their coffee before they go to work because they don't brush their teeth!   

(Disclaimer:  To all those who take offense, please know that whatever I said was for humor's sake only!)

[TheGhost]

That's spelled "humour" for our British friends.

[nh_mopar_fan]