HELP! 97 breeze info needed

[craigandlynda]

have had intermittant overheating problem w daughters 97 breeze...it can go for weeks no problem...then overheat...had system pressure tested, no leaks...pump and thermostat good, used 50/50 antifreeeze/water mix, but apparently would overheat and bubble out of overflow box on occasion....loss of coolant would eventually get so low, engine would overheat...

anyway, i suspect radiator fans are not cutting in as they need to...they do work, but only occasionally...i suspect a bad fan relay...i have checked fuse for relay, and need info...

does anyone out there haev a wiring diagram for this car? or something close? i need to know if power goes thru a fuse to relay, and then from relay to fan switch, then to fans: or does power go thru the fan switch first, before going to the relay and then fan motors...

also, where is the relay located?

[FLG]

Have you tried a new rad cap?  The wrong cap or a weak spring will cause it to loose pressure

[craigandlynda]

good idea...i will do that also....i really suspect something electrical here also; just discovered that tachometer and odometer work intermittantly...the mystery deepens....wish i had a wiring diagram

[FLG]

Hope someone comes up with one. Have you checked online for the shop manual?

[bear]

Find some one that has an OBD 2 code reader and it should tell you all the problems that are stored in the cars on board computer and it you do the test right after it is shut off it will tell you even more codes. If there is a problem with the fan relay it should show up because it shows up on the Saturn I am working on and I have to take care of it tomorrow cause it was overheating in traffic but once I was moving it would start to cool off. And you could always use a multimeter and start following the wires from the fan to find the fault if there is one.

[Plumcrazy]

Which engine does it have?

[Cooperman]

Here's the relay location on a '97 2.0 Breeze..



Have you tested the PCM cooling fan switch? It's located just below the throttle position sensor on the throttle body.

[Plumcrazy]

Here's the relay location on a '97 2.0 Breeze..



Have you tested the PCM cooling fan switch? It's located just below the throttle position sensor on the throttle body.

There is no such thing as a PCM cooling fan switch anywhere on that car.   The low and high fan speed relays are controlled by the PCM based on input from the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor.

Pull both relays, two of the terminals for each relay should have power.

If they do you can test the fan by jumping between the horizontal and vertical terminal across from it in the photo above.  Use the vertical terminal furthest away from the horizontal terminal.

[Cooperman]

Here's the relay location on a '97 2.0 Breeze..



Have you tested the PCM cooling fan switch? It's located just below the throttle position sensor on the throttle body.

There is no such thing as a PCM cooling fan switch anywhere on that car.   The low and high fan speed relays are controlled by the PCM based on input from the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor.

Sorry plum... I typed 'switch' when all the while I meant 'sensor'... It's still in the location described above!
Pull both relays, two of the terminals for each relay should have power.

If they do you can test the fan by jumping between the horizontal and vertical terminal across from it in the photo above.  Use the vertical terminal furthest away from the horizontal terminal.

[Plumcrazy]

Cooperman

You must be thinking of something else.  The only electrical components attached to the throttle body are the throttle position sensor and the idle air control motor.
The coolant temperature sensor is screwed into a coolant passage.

Lets see what craigandlynda find out about the radiator fan. 

[Cooperman]

Sorry fella. I got the location from an image on my Alldata service and got carried away. Of course you are quite correct. 

However, it's not the clearest I've ever seen... 





I'm searching for a wiring diagram for them too. Let's hope that's a little more obvious!

[craigandlynda]

wow thanx guys for the virtual plethora of information...

the fans themselves do work, i have seen them work intermittantly. i am suspicious that they dont come on all the time when they are supposed to...i put on a new radiator cap, both new and original rated at 16 pounds, and spring in original cap seemed to feel fine...

i checked out fuses, particularly cavity # 9, and the 40 amp relay fuse....the fuses are good, but when removing and plugging them back in, sometimes the fans will start...also, this thing with the tach and odometer working intermittantly, gives me some added grief...wish i had a wiring diagram...

car actually runs fine... oh yes, should there be a gasket on the underside of the yellow cap on the cooling system pressure/overflow box? if so, mine is missing...i laid saran wrap under the cap and cranked it down...

daughter ran car 125  since, i will go check things this morning...any more thoughts?

[craigandlynda]

oops, that's 125 miles, not 125 MPH

[Plumcrazy]

The fans only come on when the engine temp gets high enough or the A/C is on so you usually don't see them run too much, but at least you know they work.

No gasket under the yellow cap on the overflow bottle

I've run across the problem you're having with the gauges several times, unfortunately it's usually caused by the circuit board at the back of the cluster.  $$$$$$$

[craigandlynda]

update- started car today, and tach and odometer working fine, and cooling system, fans and all, worked perfectly....it should be noted that last time car overheated, tach was NOT working...i really want to get a look at a wiring diagram, to see if power source for odometer and tach is somehow related to power source for fans, or their relays, or temp sensor...and, of course, teenage daughter continues to moan about it...to alleviate her frustatration, today she went shopping with a friend for the day...

[craigandlynda]

flipped the key...codes 12. 35, 33, 31, 31, 55....only one i know for sure is 55, end...anyone know what other codes are?

[bear]

Was there any letter before the numbers like B or P because all OBD2 codes have a letter before them unless your car has OBD1 but it shouldn't because everything was switched over to OBD2 in 95/96. Let me know cause I have a program with every DTC.

[craigandlynda]

i was reading the codes by watching the "check engine" light flash...am i behind the times again?

[bear]

I have never heard of them read that way I have a code reader that plugs into the car and pops up the DTC and a short little description of it. Some auto parts stores should be able to plug into your car and tell you the codes that show up or you could get one the OBD2 code reader will work with any car made after 1995 and can be very helpful when problems show up on your car and you can get some for about $80 and it is well worth it. If you know anyone that has one try and borrow it if you can for a while and if it just tells you the DTC I have a little description for each one. And if you do get one run the car around the block because not all the codes are stored in the memory long term.

[craigandlynda]

since new radiator cap. not overheted yet...but tach/odometer still work intermittantly...still evaluating, checking codes...

[bear]

I just thought of this in the chiltons manuals they have a section for codes the way you did it you may want to check that out.