Poor service from 440 Source.com

[dspaulding70]

I am disappointed at the response I got from the owner of 440 source.com today.  I had ordered over $600 in parts from them for my 440 rebuild at the beginning of the year when I dropped the 440 off at the machine shop for rebuild.  The same shop was also handling the body work and painting and as in most cases, the process took much longer than anticipated.  Finally, we are at the engine installation phase and the shop starts opening all of the parts for assembly.

I had ordered a stainless bolt kit for the exhaust manifold (about $50) but since we started engine assembly, we decided to go with black bolts on the aluminum intake.  Today, I called and placed an additional order with 440 source.com for more parts and mentioned that I wanted to return the unopened stainless bolts.

The salesman said he would have to check with the owner because they have a 30 day return policy.  I understand the policy but I would think that they would reconsider because of the additional order and that the stainless bolt kit is not discontinued.  I finished placing the order and hung up.  The salesman called me back in about 5 minutes and said the owner was not willing to accept the return.  I told him I was disappointed to hear that and we ended the call.........then I thought more about it, got angry, called back and cancelled my order.  It is not the money so much as the principal.  I would rather pay twice as much somewhere else to know that that owner is not getting another penny of my money.

Maybe I overreacted but I know I did the right thing.........by the way, any suggestions on where else I can get bolts for my 440

     

[Joshua]

ARP bolts from Summit or Jegs......

[firefighter3931]

I like the ARP small hex head bolts on high rise manifolds....much easier to get a socket or box end wrench on them. 

Here are your Chromemoly black oxide bolts :  http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ARP%2D144%2D2001&autoview=sku


Ron


Ps. 440 Source sells descent stuff with excellent pricing but their return policy is less than desirable. I know someone that had to eat a set of pistons because he changed directions during the build. Brand new, never installed and they would not credit him or give a refund. This was not an obsolete part either....it was a stocking item. 

[Drache]

I cant see a place not taking them back IF they are unopened and IF they are still a stocked part. Most places I know will charge you a "restocking fee" if you want to return something past the normal 30 day period....

[Musicman]

Kinda surprised to hear that... I agree, some everyday electronics vendor may tell you to go pound sand, but most of the Auto shops are pretty cool about such things. We all know that you often times buy something today, that may not get installed for months, and that plans do change... especially with engine builds. I would expect more of an open door return policy myself...

[Silver R/T]

sorry to hear that. They are morons to treat customers like that. I guess they need to take classes on customer relations, etc. to help THEMSELVES to be a better business. You dont do that to a customer who's will be ordering more parts and will most likely spread the word about them, especially if its bad news.

[moparguy01]

i guess i can see why they wouldnt. a policy is a policy and they are in place for a reason, whatever that reason is. probably because they dont want to sit on excess numbers of product. I know you'll say "but its just one set" but think of it this way, if everyone on this board happened to return it, they'd have an awful lot sitting there. thats just retail.

I'm just saying I think you overacted alittle bit, and even though you had a $600 order, i'm sure thats not exactly a large order for them, regardless of how big it is to you. Either way I dont beleive you got poor service from them just because they didnt do everything your way, and i feel the name of the title is misleading due to that fact.

the basic thing is that their policy is their policy, and you agree to it when you place an order through them. if you dont like their policy, dont use  their company.

[Silver R/T]

business is slow right now, unless you're working for oil company. Im sure most businesses would appreciate a $600 even if they did have to give $50 for a stinking bolt set

[Troy]

business is slow right now, unless you're working for oil company. Im sure most businesses would appreciate a $600 even if they did have to give $50 for a stinking bolt set

Uh, that doesn't make any sense. It's the middle of racing season and 440Source sells high performance parts.

Any way, back to the topic at hand... I agree with moparguy01 - why are you mad because they didn't let you break the rules? I've worked at places with strict return policies and others that were pretty lenient. The places with strict policies seemed to have gotten to that point after customers abused the system but not always. I don't see the sense in refusing a return on an unopened, stocked part but I'm not running the business either. I'm sure there's a reason. I think poor service would be if they didn't answer the phone for a few weeks until you accidentally got through, took your order (and money) but neglected to tell you that your parts were on indefinite backorder, or said they'd call back but didn't bother.

I have a garage full of stuff that I don't need since I tend to change directions before I get a chance to use the stuff I buy. Whoops!

Troy

[dspaulding70]

I appreciate the opinions and they vary as I expected.   Maybe I should have changed the subject to "I will not purchase another item from 440source.com".  That way, the determination of "poor service" would be left to the reader to determine.

I am a business owner myself.  The number one policy for my company is that the customer is the lifeblood of my company.  I face many situations like this in my business and I believe that if my company appears to be unappreciative to my customers, it is an absolute certainty they will not return.  Policy is a general guide for employees.  Owners of companies can and should make exceptions.  Customers expect service above and beyond "Policy".  When a customer feels that you have made an exception for them, they respect and appreciate the gesture and they become loyal.  The $50 "policy" that 440source.com is unwilling to reconsider cost them a $145 order today and a guarantee that I will not place another order with them.

I realize that many may see this as an over reaction......until they find themselves in a similar situation. 

I am no longer angry.....just surprised of the mindset of the owner of 440source.com

Thanks again for letting me vent earlier. 

[Silver R/T]

business is slow right now, unless you're working for oil company. Im sure most businesses would appreciate a $600 even if they did have to give $50 for a stinking bolt set

Uh, that doesn't make any sense. It's the middle of racing season and 440Source sells high performance parts.

actually it does as economy is slow right now, maybe some people disagree cause they do not realize in how much shit economy is right now. Maybe its just in WA state that hundreds of people are getting laid off due to the lack of business. Our company laid off bunch of people also. Racing is affected by economy just as much as race gas and parts went up by X% For me its more important to pay mortgage now than go spend money for race parts and race gas for my Cobra, not sure about other people, I guess they're loaded with cash or something

[Silver R/T]

I appreciate the opinions and they vary as I expected.   Maybe I should have changed the subject to "I will not purchase another item from 440source.com".  That way, the determination of "poor service" would be left to the reader to determine.

I am a business owner myself.  The number one policy for my company is that the customer is the lifeblood of my company.  I face many situations like this in my business and I believe that if my company appears to be unappreciative to my customers, it is an absolute certainty they will not return.  Policy is a general guide for employees.  Owners of companies can and should make exceptions.  Customers expect service above and beyond "Policy".  When a customer feels that you have made an exception for them, they respect and appreciate the gesture and they become loyal.  The $50 "policy" that 440source.com is unwilling to reconsider cost them a $145 order today and a guarantee that I will not place another order with them.

I realize that many may see this as an over reaction......until they find themselves in a similar situation. 

I am no longer angry.....just surprised of the mindset of the owner of 440source.com

Thanks again for letting me vent earlier. 

I 100% agree with you man, I would just take a loss on the bolts and sell on ebay to recoup some of the money.

[mikesbbody]

a policy is a policy however, i felt your actions were louder than words when you cancelled your order  i dont think their service was bad from what i read but you would think they would take those bolts back since they were not opened or used. As a consumer, you have choices in this case you have chosen to buy elsewhere even if it costs more. I would have done the same thing.

[Musicman]

Here is their policy... very clearly stated. Never really looked at it myself, but I can understand it and I can live with it...

Returns on non-defective NEW items: (changed your mind/wrong part/wrong size/style/color etc ordered.):

    We try very hard to get you exactly what you are looking for the first time around and we want you to be happy with whatever you order. So, please do your research, collaborate with your engine builder or machine shop, compare the competition, ask us all your questions,  think long and hard, and please be 100% positive you are selecting the correct parts before you place your order. We have spent considerable resources on listing very detailed pictures and specifications on our website for this purpose. Returns cost all parties involved time and money, and are usually avoidable if the correct homework would have been done beforehand. Building high performance and/or racing engines is not a simple task. Our sales staff will do our best to find you the parts we feel will work best for your application, but engine building is more often an art than a science and part selection is often heavily based on opinion. A part that one engine builder has been using for 30 years with great success may be the same part that another equally experienced engine builder swears will cause the engine to blow up as soon as you turn the key. So, in an effort to keep our rock bottom prices as low as possible for everyone long into the future, lets please try to work together to get the right part(s) you need the first time around.

    That being said, we do accept returns on non defective items for a period of 30 (thirty) days from the invoice date. A restocking fee of 15% will be charged. Without exception, orders will be considered final (and credit cards charged) as soon as they are placed with us. Any changes or returns after this point will be subject to our restocking fee, regardless of whether or not some or all of the items have shipped out.

[RD]

Here is their policy... very clearly stated. Never really looked at it myself, but I can understand it and I can live with it...

Returns on non-defective NEW items: (changed your mind/wrong part/wrong size/style/color etc ordered.):

    We try very hard to get you exactly what you are looking for the first time around and we want you to be happy with whatever you order. So, please do your research, collaborate with your engine builder or machine shop, compare the competition, ask us all your questions,  think long and hard, and please be 100% positive you are selecting the correct parts before you place your order. We have spent considerable resources on listing very detailed pictures and specifications on our website for this purpose. Returns cost all parties involved time and money, and are usually avoidable if the correct homework would have been done beforehand. Building high performance and/or racing engines is not a simple task. Our sales staff will do our best to find you the parts we feel will work best for your application, but engine building is more often an art than a science and part selection is often heavily based on opinion. A part that one engine builder has been using for 30 years with great success may be the same part that another equally experienced engine builder swears will cause the engine to blow up as soon as you turn the key. So, in an effort to keep our rock bottom prices as low as possible for everyone long into the future, lets please try to work together to get the right part(s) you need the first time around.

    That being said, we do accept returns on non defective items for a period of 30 (thirty) days from the invoice date. A restocking fee of 15% will be charged. Without exception, orders will be considered final (and credit cards charged) as soon as they are placed with us. Any changes or returns after this point will be subject to our restocking fee, regardless of whether or not some or all of the items have shipped out.

i understand that you are upset over the matter dspaulding, but musicman did a good job of quoting the return policy.  just because you dont agree with it, doesnt mean that 440source didnt do you justice.  Once they bend a rule for one, they have to do it for all, and then our $899 /pair aluminum heads go to $1300 to offset their overstock.

i empathize with your situation, but i dont think 440source should be ostracized because you "chose" to go a different direction.

Jamey

[moparstuart]

I feel they need to be more flexible in there return policy's especially in this economy when a good customer is placing a suplimental order. There are lots of parts suppliers and the customer should be #1 to a point if you dont want to loose them to competition.


   I have in the last year  I have bought parts for two completely rebuild two motors  from them. The parts were great ,but  was not impressed with there sales people or there inventory. I will most likely buy from them again but not as much as i have in the past 

[Brock Samson]

what I've noticed is that if anything customer service is the first thing to be sacrificed,..  seems anti-intuitive but that's the first place they cut.

[Musicman]

Personally, I have never had anything except great customer service from them, which is why I was a little surprised by this situation, as I stated in my first post. Of course, having read their policy now for the first time, I can understand their position. Quite frankly, I'm still a little surprised that they wouldn't take back an unopened package, but that is their policy, and they have gone way out of their way to explain that policy in great detail, so I guess you can't really bitch.

I for one will continue to buy from them... they've always treated me well in the past.

[chargerman68]

wow i never heard on anything bad about them....


top quality stuff.....

sorry to hear that

[twenty mike mike]

They didn't provide poor service, you just have to manage your expectations in the face of their very clear return policy, of which you were fully aware.   

Your experience wouldn't make me avoid dealing with them.

As others, I have way too many spares in my garage. I've decided to plan better.

[Drache]

Their return policy might be clear but I have returned parts to places after their 30 day policies and never had a problem doing it at most of them. Its these places that I feel like a "special customer" and keep going back to....

[twenty mike mike]

That's called "exceeding expectations." It's great when that works out, but to BMC about it when it doesn't, is just 

[1969chargerrtse]

Wow, I can't figure out which side I'm on?  This just can't have a correct answer.  Yes some places bend rules and I think they should.  Others don't and I understand.   Kinda reminds me of my frustration when I walk into a coffee shop and want a coffee and donut and use my American Express card.  Sorry 10.00 minimum.  So I get nothing and leave and never go back.  Dumb policy.  Well we have to pay a fee for such small purchases they tell me.  My thought is, so bend a bit because otherwise I and my entire family will never be back.  You would rather make nothing than a little?  I may just be getting a coffee today but who knows what I would of gotten next time?  Bad policy, gee I wish they would bend on that.     So I agree with everyone on this one.    So they lost a minimum of a 145.00 order for a bolt kit return?  I change my mind, very stupid policy.  I understand they stood by it and explained it well, but they lost 145.00 how could that be wise?  I agree with dspaulding70.  He only asked for a bolt swap, not for them to eat 50.00.  Poor policy.  The fact that they stood by it, I understand but don't think it was wise.  They lost a customer for a bolt swap, yea that's wise, and what about word of mouth like this Forum?  I'm backing dspaulding70 and will buy elsewhere if I have the need and choice.  Tell me how is that wise for them?  It's about buisness and nothing more ( In hard times no less ) and they lost a customer that spent almost a 1,000.00 over a small part swap. Stupid, end of story.  You rock dspaulding70!   You da man.

[gers1968rt]

I'm with you dspaulding. I made a mistake on an oil pump drive from summit and didn't find out till seven months later. Summit still took it back and I'll never forget that. Some policies will hurt business if they can't be bent once in a while.

[Musicman]

Yea, that's one thing I really like about Summit... but then again, Summit is Huge by comparison. 440Source is just a small speciality shop.