I guess no one has driven a Ford lately

[bull]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/2005-10-20-ford_x.htm?csp=26

Ford posts $284M loss, plans cuts

By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY
DETROIT â€" Ford Motor (F), facing a financial crisis that could get worse as consumers continue turning away from highly profitable SUVs, said Thursday that it will lay out a restructuring plan in January that will call for plant closures and job cuts.

Ford posted a $284 million net loss for the third quarter. But its North American auto operations lost $1.2 billion. It was the first time since 2003 that Ford failed to post a quarterly profit.

[Rocky]

What about the new Mustang?

[Ghoste]

The days of the Model T are over.  One car don't make a corporation anymore.  Even if it is better looking than the competitions "sport" models.

[TeeWJay426]

What about the new Mustang?

One model line can't carry the whole company. Other than the Mustang and the F150, the rest of the Ford lineup is about as thrilling as Generous Motor's.... which is why they're struggling too.

[6pkrunner]

The amazing part is that Ford and GM raced out to develop the high end, high profit SUVs. Surely they had to know that the market would get saturated or the price of oil would kill he demand. So both come home to roost and they are shocked. I'm cynical enough to say they did see it coming and it will be used as a lever to trim fat that they couldn't during the profitable years. And when the new Mustang market gets sated, another kick in the groin for Ford.

[hotrod98]

The problem with ford and gm is that they're top heavy. Too many retired execs drawing millions of dollars each year in retirement. Add this to all of the retired factory workers and it's easy to see how the old cash flow is in the red. The next step is to cut benefits, wages and retirements. Welcome to the real world.
Oh, and it would help if they just built cars that were worth a damn.

[69charger2002]

well, part of the problem is building 10 cars/SUV'S so damn close to each other you can barely tell them apart.. taurus, contour, 500, etc.. i mean that is just stupid. and mercury was a joke.  the mustang is probably their only car living up to expectations/profiting. but even that is a small share of their profit goals
trav

[Brock Samson]

 The entire american industry is on the ropes. Delphi filed chapter 11 last week, all the suppliers are in deep doo doo,..
and the chinese ain't even here yet... read the Detroit News Auto section some time. It's gonna get allot worse,..
      Anyone wanna bet what the next Make is to "Go Away?..

[Charger_Fan]

        Anyone wanna bet what the next Make is to "Go Away?..

Mercury!     (or is that considered a sub-make?)

The amazing part is that Ford and GM raced out to develop the high end, high profit SUVs. Surely they had to know that the market would get saturated or the price of oil would kill he demand.

And will also add that certainly they knew that if we had another big price increase on gas, like we've had, that their nice profitable SUV market would be the first thing to drop like a rock.

[ChargerBill]

For the most part (Mustang aside) I think the Ford line-up is pathetic! Their SUV's look like bricks on wheels and their Titan engines just plain suck! I'm not suprized that they are posting a loss at all. but how many lossed THAT big can a company suffer before it has to fold? Can they really last very long in the red?...

[SirNik73]

i think its funny that most of us think that the Germans are trashing the Chrysler reputation... witch i think they are... but what they are doing is making money. and in the end that is the reason for a car company. i think ford needs to do some house cleaning. think about it. back in the day, there was Ford and Mercury and Dodge and Plymouth. and you could see the differences. the Plymouth Road Runner looked nothing like the Charger and the Mercury Cougar looked nothing like the Mustang... they were related, but they were diffrent. well it came to the point that Plymouth was making the Neon... and Dodge was making the Neon with NO differences... they didn't even bother to change the name plate... and then we ended up saying goodbye to Plymouth... now its time to say good buy to mercury... they have been making the same cars as for for YEARS and i don't see why Ford keeps them around... o well theres my  

[Brock Samson]

 Well,..
ahem,..
See back when these differences were relevant,.. you started with a ford, say a mustang 6 cly... then ya went to a Cougar,.. a XR-7 of course,.. but ya ended up in a Lincoln Mark III... usually the prices differences were just a couple to a few hundred dollors. cars were approx. 1,800 to 5,000 bucks.. a Ferrari was 25,000 and a honda 1,700..
or, in GMs case, Chevy to Pontiac to Buick to Oldsmobile to Caddy.
In Mopars case it was a Plymouth Signet to Dodge whatever,.. then on to an Imperial... eventually...
There weren't that many makes then if ya think about it, the japanese and germans wern't even on the map.
but all that changed with the Bug in '64...
honda and toyota came over in '68
Nissan was called Datsun then and the 240 Z sure put them on the map...that was like '70...
Meanwhile, the american makes got fat and ugly begining in '71, so when the gas crunch hit in '72, the imports were ideally suited to eat our lunch...
and they have.
So now the chinese are rampin up and will be here in two years...

[Silver R/T]

suv's are for soccer moms, gass guzzling turds, 4 bangers strike again!

[2Gunz]

I think the biggest problem with Chevy and Ford are that I can only name two current Chevy cars without think hard and 1 Ford.

Thats a problem a BIG problem. Especially since Im a "car guy".  Hard to get excitment and interest in a product when people dont know what you make.

The other big thing. You should do a few things REALLY well and sell the hell out of it. Not do what they are doing now. Do a trainload of things ok and sell a few.

[bull]

I think the biggest problem with Chevy and Ford are that I can only name two current Chevy cars without think hard and 1 Ford.

Thats a problem a BIG problem. Especially since Im a "car guy".   Hard to get excitment and interest in a product when people dont know what you make.

That's because they all don't have the same grill.

[73dodge]

The problem with ford and gm is that they're top heavy. Too many retired execs drawing millions of dollars each year in retirement. Add this to all of the retired factory workers and it's easy to see how the old cash flow is in the red. The next step is to cut benefits, wages and retirements. Welcome to the real world.
Oh, and it would help if they just built cars that were worth a damn.

That's a very valid point read the link below from George Will about GM's welfare culture and hows it's driving them into the dumpster.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will102105.asp

[73dodge]

here's part of the story

GM's North American auto business is hemorrhaging money â€" $1.6 billion in the third quarter.

This is in part because its employee-discount-for-everyone pricing has worked, sort of: Until that promotion ended at the beginning of this month, GM was selling lots of vehicles â€" but losing more than $1,000 per sale. Then in the first nine days after the discounts ended, GM's sales plunged 57 percent. Shortly before Monday's announcement that the UAW has agreed to trim GM workers' and retirees' benefits, Delphi, the auto parts company that until 1999 was owned by GM, sought bankruptcy protection.

[Charger_Fan]

I would only expect sales to plummet after the employee pricing ended. It does suck that they lost $1,000 on each vehicle, but at least they don't still have the total value of those cars hanging over their heads, like they would if they didn't sell them.
I'm sure Ford had the same results after their own employee program ended.

I'm hoping both companies will be able to turn things in their favor before they truely go belly up. To me, it will be pretty sad as an American to not have an actual American-made auto company anymore...right along with all the other industries that we once had that are ours no longer.

[Blusmbl]

I should go back about 5 years and kick myself in the balls for ever wanting to work in the automotive industry.

[moparjohn]

If this country doesn't wake up soon we won't make anything in this country- least of all money.  How is it that the USA could let all the jobs/companys move factories and such out and not think it would kill the economy? This global market seems to benefit the rest of the globe but mot us. And now what we do make we don't want because it's designed for the rest of the world.

[Smoke20]

here's part of the story

GM's North American auto business is hemorrhaging money â€" $1.6 billion in the third quarter.

This is in part because its employee-discount-for-everyone pricing has worked, sort of: Until that promotion ended at the beginning of this month, GM was selling lots of vehicles â€" but losing more than $1,000 per sale.

This has been a long time coming. The employeee price proagram was just a way to reduce the amount of $$$ tied up in excess inventory. Make no mistake, the big 3 auto makers may have reduced their profit margin by $1000 per sale with that promo, but they certainly were not taking a loss, i.e. selling each vehicle for $1000 less than the cost of making and distributing it.

Poor reliability overall and leaving consumers with a bad experience with brand X will only drive the consumer to brand Y.

Enter the foriegn auto market.

[6670charger]

Lots of good points here.  I was thinking many of the same things while driving around at work today.  It's getting really bad when you can't determine one model from the next in GM's lineup.  Ford has the same grille, similar headlights and taillights on nearly ALL of their vehicles.  The body lines are almost the same from one car to the next also.  It's almost like we've returned to the 30's where the car makers made one basic chasis and front end, and the only difference from one model to the next was the coachwork.

[greenpigs]

I should go back about 5 years and kick myself in the balls for ever wanting to work in the automotive industry.

  Yep, I used to work at a place that was a suplier to Delphi, but left. Things are going to get nasty for the big three in the next few years and they have themselves to blame for about half of it, China gets the rest.

[Steve P.]

When the big 3 start shipping the same cars and trucks to the US market that they do to the Brazilian market and we start pumping booze and veggie oil at the pumps, all will go back to normal..

I agree that many of the cars out there look just like the one next to it. I have also noticed that Hyundai(*) is building cars that look very similar to the most expensive cars on the road. They have one that looks just like a Jag and another that looks very much like a Mercedes.. Much cheaper and with a 100K warranty.

I almost forgot,,,   I have a Triton V-10 in my F-250 Super Duty Crew Cab that kicks butt.. I can't say anything about the smaller Triton engine but the V-10 has all the ass you could want for hauling...

[253862656971]

I'm waiting for Ford to get the Cummins.  I've heard Dodge lost the Cummins deal to Ford and Ford has already taken the Cummins in the ag market.  If it's true I expect nothing less than a Cat in the Dodge.