I guess no one has driven a Ford lately

[bull]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/2005-10-20-ford_x.htm?csp=26

Ford posts $284M loss, plans cuts

By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY
DETROIT â€" Ford Motor (F), facing a financial crisis that could get worse as consumers continue turning away from highly profitable SUVs, said Thursday that it will lay out a restructuring plan in January that will call for plant closures and job cuts.

Ford posted a $284 million net loss for the third quarter. But its North American auto operations lost $1.2 billion. It was the first time since 2003 that Ford failed to post a quarterly profit.

[Rocky]

What about the new Mustang?

[Ghoste]

The days of the Model T are over.  One car don't make a corporation anymore.  Even if it is better looking than the competitions "sport" models.

[TeeWJay426]

What about the new Mustang?

One model line can't carry the whole company. Other than the Mustang and the F150, the rest of the Ford lineup is about as thrilling as Generous Motor's.... which is why they're struggling too.

[6pkrunner]

The amazing part is that Ford and GM raced out to develop the high end, high profit SUVs. Surely they had to know that the market would get saturated or the price of oil would kill he demand. So both come home to roost and they are shocked. I'm cynical enough to say they did see it coming and it will be used as a lever to trim fat that they couldn't during the profitable years. And when the new Mustang market gets sated, another kick in the groin for Ford.

[hotrod98]

The problem with ford and gm is that they're top heavy. Too many retired execs drawing millions of dollars each year in retirement. Add this to all of the retired factory workers and it's easy to see how the old cash flow is in the red. The next step is to cut benefits, wages and retirements. Welcome to the real world.
Oh, and it would help if they just built cars that were worth a damn.

[69charger2002]

well, part of the problem is building 10 cars/SUV'S so damn close to each other you can barely tell them apart.. taurus, contour, 500, etc.. i mean that is just stupid. and mercury was a joke.  the mustang is probably their only car living up to expectations/profiting. but even that is a small share of their profit goals
trav

[Brock Samson]

 The entire american industry is on the ropes. Delphi filed chapter 11 last week, all the suppliers are in deep doo doo,..
and the chinese ain't even here yet... read the Detroit News Auto section some time. It's gonna get allot worse,..
      Anyone wanna bet what the next Make is to "Go Away?..

[Charger_Fan]

        Anyone wanna bet what the next Make is to "Go Away?..

Mercury!     (or is that considered a sub-make?)

The amazing part is that Ford and GM raced out to develop the high end, high profit SUVs. Surely they had to know that the market would get saturated or the price of oil would kill he demand.

And will also add that certainly they knew that if we had another big price increase on gas, like we've had, that their nice profitable SUV market would be the first thing to drop like a rock.

[ChargerBill]

For the most part (Mustang aside) I think the Ford line-up is pathetic! Their SUV's look like bricks on wheels and their Titan engines just plain suck! I'm not suprized that they are posting a loss at all. but how many lossed THAT big can a company suffer before it has to fold? Can they really last very long in the red?...

[SirNik73]

i think its funny that most of us think that the Germans are trashing the Chrysler reputation... witch i think they are... but what they are doing is making money. and in the end that is the reason for a car company. i think ford needs to do some house cleaning. think about it. back in the day, there was Ford and Mercury and Dodge and Plymouth. and you could see the differences. the Plymouth Road Runner looked nothing like the Charger and the Mercury Cougar looked nothing like the Mustang... they were related, but they were diffrent. well it came to the point that Plymouth was making the Neon... and Dodge was making the Neon with NO differences... they didn't even bother to change the name plate... and then we ended up saying goodbye to Plymouth... now its time to say good buy to mercury... they have been making the same cars as for for YEARS and i don't see why Ford keeps them around... o well theres my  

[Brock Samson]

 Well,..
ahem,..
See back when these differences were relevant,.. you started with a ford, say a mustang 6 cly... then ya went to a Cougar,.. a XR-7 of course,.. but ya ended up in a Lincoln Mark III... usually the prices differences were just a couple to a few hundred dollors. cars were approx. 1,800 to 5,000 bucks.. a Ferrari was 25,000 and a honda 1,700..
or, in GMs case, Chevy to Pontiac to Buick to Oldsmobile to Caddy.
In Mopars case it was a Plymouth Signet to Dodge whatever,.. then on to an Imperial... eventually...
There weren't that many makes then if ya think about it, the japanese and germans wern't even on the map.
but all that changed with the Bug in '64...
honda and toyota came over in '68
Nissan was called Datsun then and the 240 Z sure put them on the map...that was like '70...
Meanwhile, the american makes got fat and ugly begining in '71, so when the gas crunch hit in '72, the imports were ideally suited to eat our lunch...
and they have.
So now the chinese are rampin up and will be here in two years...

[Silver R/T]

suv's are for soccer moms, gass guzzling turds, 4 bangers strike again!

[2Gunz]

I think the biggest problem with Chevy and Ford are that I can only name two current Chevy cars without think hard and 1 Ford.

Thats a problem a BIG problem. Especially since Im a "car guy".  Hard to get excitment and interest in a product when people dont know what you make.

The other big thing. You should do a few things REALLY well and sell the hell out of it. Not do what they are doing now. Do a trainload of things ok and sell a few.

[bull]

I think the biggest problem with Chevy and Ford are that I can only name two current Chevy cars without think hard and 1 Ford.

Thats a problem a BIG problem. Especially since Im a "car guy".   Hard to get excitment and interest in a product when people dont know what you make.

That's because they all don't have the same grill.

[73dodge]

The problem with ford and gm is that they're top heavy. Too many retired execs drawing millions of dollars each year in retirement. Add this to all of the retired factory workers and it's easy to see how the old cash flow is in the red. The next step is to cut benefits, wages and retirements. Welcome to the real world.
Oh, and it would help if they just built cars that were worth a damn.

That's a very valid point read the link below from George Will about GM's welfare culture and hows it's driving them into the dumpster.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will102105.asp

[73dodge]

here's part of the story

GM's North American auto business is hemorrhaging money â€" $1.6 billion in the third quarter.

This is in part because its employee-discount-for-everyone pricing has worked, sort of: Until that promotion ended at the beginning of this month, GM was selling lots of vehicles â€" but losing more than $1,000 per sale. Then in the first nine days after the discounts ended, GM's sales plunged 57 percent. Shortly before Monday's announcement that the UAW has agreed to trim GM workers' and retirees' benefits, Delphi, the auto parts company that until 1999 was owned by GM, sought bankruptcy protection.

[Charger_Fan]

I would only expect sales to plummet after the employee pricing ended. It does suck that they lost $1,000 on each vehicle, but at least they don't still have the total value of those cars hanging over their heads, like they would if they didn't sell them.
I'm sure Ford had the same results after their own employee program ended.

I'm hoping both companies will be able to turn things in their favor before they truely go belly up. To me, it will be pretty sad as an American to not have an actual American-made auto company anymore...right along with all the other industries that we once had that are ours no longer.

[Blusmbl]

I should go back about 5 years and kick myself in the balls for ever wanting to work in the automotive industry.

[moparjohn]

If this country doesn't wake up soon we won't make anything in this country- least of all money.  How is it that the USA could let all the jobs/companys move factories and such out and not think it would kill the economy? This global market seems to benefit the rest of the globe but mot us. And now what we do make we don't want because it's designed for the rest of the world.

[Smoke20]

here's part of the story

GM's North American auto business is hemorrhaging money â€" $1.6 billion in the third quarter.

This is in part because its employee-discount-for-everyone pricing has worked, sort of: Until that promotion ended at the beginning of this month, GM was selling lots of vehicles â€" but losing more than $1,000 per sale.

This has been a long time coming. The employeee price proagram was just a way to reduce the amount of $$$ tied up in excess inventory. Make no mistake, the big 3 auto makers may have reduced their profit margin by $1000 per sale with that promo, but they certainly were not taking a loss, i.e. selling each vehicle for $1000 less than the cost of making and distributing it.

Poor reliability overall and leaving consumers with a bad experience with brand X will only drive the consumer to brand Y.

Enter the foriegn auto market.

[6670charger]

Lots of good points here.  I was thinking many of the same things while driving around at work today.  It's getting really bad when you can't determine one model from the next in GM's lineup.  Ford has the same grille, similar headlights and taillights on nearly ALL of their vehicles.  The body lines are almost the same from one car to the next also.  It's almost like we've returned to the 30's where the car makers made one basic chasis and front end, and the only difference from one model to the next was the coachwork.

[greenpigs]

I should go back about 5 years and kick myself in the balls for ever wanting to work in the automotive industry.

  Yep, I used to work at a place that was a suplier to Delphi, but left. Things are going to get nasty for the big three in the next few years and they have themselves to blame for about half of it, China gets the rest.

[Steve P.]

When the big 3 start shipping the same cars and trucks to the US market that they do to the Brazilian market and we start pumping booze and veggie oil at the pumps, all will go back to normal..

I agree that many of the cars out there look just like the one next to it. I have also noticed that Hyundai(*) is building cars that look very similar to the most expensive cars on the road. They have one that looks just like a Jag and another that looks very much like a Mercedes.. Much cheaper and with a 100K warranty.

I almost forgot,,,   I have a Triton V-10 in my F-250 Super Duty Crew Cab that kicks butt.. I can't say anything about the smaller Triton engine but the V-10 has all the ass you could want for hauling...

[253862656971]

I'm waiting for Ford to get the Cummins.  I've heard Dodge lost the Cummins deal to Ford and Ford has already taken the Cummins in the ag market.  If it's true I expect nothing less than a Cat in the Dodge. 

[Ghoste]

I've been hearing that rumor for 10 years now.  I work for International and as far as I know we are going to be supplying them with Powerchokes for some time to come.

[Spartan]

I spent quite some time in a Ford plant today and part of their losses are lack of efficiency......I had 4 guys watching us work on one component today and they were standing around watching us, doing absolutely nothing.   Figure this was time and 1/2 for them and production was not running.   The auto companies beat us suppliers down so bad on price I cannot afford one guy doggin' it or my job will loose money.   At the skilled trade wages, the amount of waste is sickening.  

[greenpigs]

It's sad to say the least, many get spoiled on the UAW extreme wages and can't get by if a pay cut happens. Boo-hoo I say, I mean come on $20+\hr to do a $8hr job any where else and they bitch..now they know why the plants are closing. Well not relay, they think theyt deserve the money,,HAHA..it's a ugly reminder that the   global economy could care less.

[Ghoste]

You're right.  If someone in Korea can build it for 2.00 hour or less in China than I say to Hell with the American worker if he's not willing to compete in the race for the bottom.  If you can't cut it on the lowest wage then you don't deserve the job.  Someone will do it for less.

[Spartan]

Delphi is just the tip of the iceberg.  I think GM was using Delphi as a test on what they will try.  The has squeezed the supply base of all the money they can, the only place left is internally now.

[greenpigs]

I should go back about 5 years and kick myself in the balls for ever wanting to work in the automotive industry.

  Yep, I used to work at a place that was a suplier to Delphi, but left. Things are going to get nasty for the big three in the next few years and they have themselves to blame for about half of it, China gets the rest.

It was a slow night at work....but look I was right about something for a change.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

A lot has changed since this was originally posted. Ford was the only domestic to not take a bailout, and does show growth and earnings 

FWIW, I have had just as many Fords in my driveway since 2005, as I've had Chrysler products. Sold the Jeep though in the winter of 2010 and will be selling our Ford SUV, but buying another 

[Todd Wilson]

I'm waiting for Ford to get the Cummins.  I've heard Dodge lost the Cummins deal to Ford and Ford has already taken the Cummins in the ag market.  If it's true I expect nothing less than a Cat in the Dodge. 

That BS is still out there floating around?


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

You're right.  If someone in Korea can build it for 2.00 hour or less in China than I say to Hell with the American worker if he's not willing to compete in the race for the bottom.  If you can't cut it on the lowest wage then you don't deserve the job.  Someone will do it for less.

And with thinking like this.............the entire country will be in the poor house...........


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

I think I have said it for a year or more I would be curious to see how Ford ends up and that they would probably have some financial troubles.


Todd

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

I think I have said it for a year or more I would be curious to see how Ford ends up and that they would probably have some financial troubles.


Todd

But Does Ford have troubles? The original post is from over 6 yrs. ago  They are doing fine, I think...

[Todd Wilson]

I think I have said it for a year or more I would be curious to see how Ford ends up and that they would probably have some financial troubles.


Todd

But Does Ford have troubles? The original post is from over 6 yrs. ago  They are doing fine, I think...

Hmmmmmmm     HAHA!    Interesting   thread was at the top of the list and I didnt see the date! HAHA!    Still getting my morning caffiene!


Todd

[stripedelete]

There are some who believe Ford is not completely out of the woods yet.   For the sake of capitalism, and, my portfolio, I hope they are wrong.

[Iceyone]

I think the problem with the Big 3 is A: They don't build much that we really want to drive. B: The cars we do actually like are too expensive to buy. C: No improvement in gas mileage. All cars should easily get 40+ mpg these days, without looking like a little turd on wheels. D: Crappy warranty. Their foreign counterparts are offering 5 year bumper to bumper warranties with a 10 year/100K mile drivetrain warranty. 

[Ghoste]

So are you saying that the foreign automakers are building cars that get 40+ mpg without looking like a turd on wheels?

[Chryco Psycho]

Well I drove a Ford lately & it confirmed why I do not buy or own Fords , what a lemon 

[jb666]

Well I drove a Ford lately & it confirmed why I do not buy or own Fords , what a lemon 

Really? Because in my fleet my reliable vehicles are Fords... The Crown Vic will go anywhere and will NEVER leave me stranded (plus it parts traffic like Moses did the Red Sea).  My SuperDuty is a work horse.. The thing will drag a house down the street... And the wife's new Raptor is top shelf.. I've never owned/driven something that cool, for a truck (since my Lightning).

So, IMO, to call Fords "Lemons" is crazy... The only "Lemon" I've ever owned was my Avalanche.. I'd NEVER buy one again.

[Fred]

I don't know about the new cars rolling off the assembly line but I can vouch for my 1984 Ford Bronco. I love that baby, I would never part with it.
It has never let me down since new.

[Chryco Psycho]

I had a leased 2011 SD 250 4x4 last winter for work  , it was a gas job 6.3 lt .
I picked it up with about 200 miles on it , I was working in the oilsands in extreme cold in northern AB .
The radio went intermittent almost immediatly , I stopped by Ford & they said they had never heard of the problem even though all 4 trucks we had did it , then the defrost was barely adequate , after 45 mins I was still scraping ice off the inside of the windows , this caused me to hit the ditch & get stuck for 4 hrs one night as I could not see the highway . Then 3rd gear disappeared so ti would shift 1-2-n-2-n-2-n-2-n & eventually 4 , I could live with that !!
Then the transfer case quit , mostly I drove in 2wd unless I really needed 4 wheel , keep in mind this was on ice roads with steep hills , every time I shifted into 4 wd a nice little wrench came up on the dash telling me 4 wd was not going to happen . Next the steering went intermittent so it would cut in & out randomly , this put me in the ditch 2 more times when the steering would basically lock up , eventually it quit working all together which was better !
The kicker was the fuel milage , it was awful , I filled up & drove 30 miles & it used 4.5 gallons of fuel , this was the best it would do I could barely go 240 on 120 lts of fuel .
I was so happy to return it at the end of 85 days & over 12,ooo miles

[aussiemuscle]

. Other than the Mustang and the F150, the rest of the Ford lineup is about as thrilling as Generous Motor's.... which is why they're struggling too.

take a look at their Focus, awesome small car. Mondeo from Europe is very good too (if available stateside).

Ford have a similar problem in Australia, that their ever dependable Falcon (it's considered a large car here) is no longer selling in huge numbers and people are moving to boring toyotas for their a-b driving.

[Fred]

. Other than the Mustang and the F150, the rest of the Ford lineup is about as thrilling as Generous Motor's.... which is why they're struggling too.

take a look at their Focus, awesome small car. Mondeo from Europe is very good too (if available stateside).

Ford have a similar problem in Australia, that their ever dependable Falcon (it's considered a large car here) is no longer selling in huge numbers and people are moving to boring toyotas for their a-b driving.

Yeah, I don't understand it. I think they're back on track with the Falcon, it looks great. (Toyota doesn't even come close to looking good) And for me nothing beats V8 power...........I don't care how much petrol costs.
The Mrs. and I are die hard Aussies and would never settle for anything less than a full size Aussie V8.

[Silver R/T]

The new Focus looks pretty good, too bad its not offered in 2door. Also they should bring back legendary 7.3L powerstroke. I think if I didn't get my Ram I'd go with F series w/7.3L

[Steve P.]

Since this has come back from the dead and it seams to be getting some traction, I will add that I have a 2002'F-250Super Crew V-10 automatic. It's heavy and strong and the comfort level is way higher than anything I have ever owned, (truck wise). The only bigger interior is the Mega Cab, but for me and my terrible back nothing is more comfortable..

I DO WISH it had a cummins in it and I had heard ages ago that it was possible to get it in a 450 and up, but hell, I don't even need a 250 anymore!!

I hear from many FORD DIESEL owners that they are serious pullers, but they spend alllllot of time in the shop.. I don't know on the newest version. I understand it's not the old builders anymore.

JB666: I am screaming the exact same thing about the AVALANCHE.. What a pile of crap!!!! I sold mine after just 1400 miles... it's center of gravity was way too high causing it to be the worst tow vehicle I have EVER owned.. Nose diving was it's favorite thing to do even in a slight cornering, low speed drive.. (Florida is loaded with curvy roads).. 

[bull]

I will add that I have a 2002'F-250Super Crew V-10 automatic. It's heavy and strong and the comfort level is way higher than anything I have ever owned, (truck wise).

We have a Ford truck at work with one of those Triton V10s and I haven't been too impressed with it. Makes a lot of noise but it doesn't seem to actually do much more than a V8.

Nuthin' personal, Steve-O, just my experience.

[chargerboy69]

I hear from many FORD DIESEL owners that they are serious pullers, but they spend alllllot of time in the shop.. I don't know on the newest version. I understand it's not the old builders anymore.

The 6.0L and 6.4L diesels they ran for a few years in the 2000's were junk.  The 7.3's on the other hand were built proof powerhouses.  Low mileage, 4X4, rust free 7.3 F-350's bring premium money through the auction.

I have not heard anything bad about their new diesels they released for 2011.

[Steve P.]

Can't tell you the difference BUll. Maybe a lack of maintenance or wrong oil or maybe it's been hit, who knows. Mine is quiet and strong as hell. Has spanked a few Hemi 1/2 ton regular cab Dodges. Both had to be much lighter than my Super Crew 3/4 ton... The second one I had raced again and again over about an 18 miles stretch. He was pissed!!! Swore I put a chip in my truck.. Nope.

[69DodgeCharger]

My 2000 Ranger 4x4 was practically indestructible with the 3.0 in it. I put  over 200,000 miles on it and these were "hard working" miles and it never left me stranded. This was after hundreds of cords of wood, so many loads of gravel, sand and rocks I couldn't even count them. Not to mention the insane loads I hauled to the scrap yard with it. My 91 Ranger was probably as reliable but I only put 40,000 on that one, when I picked it up with 237,000 on it already. I would recommend one to anybody.

[1970Moparmann]

I guess this is going to be one of those threads that I say my piece and move on.    Everyone has opinions....  Unfortunately, or not, here are the facts -

Within the the last few years, Ford has the following best selling vehicles-

-Ford F150
-Ford Fusion
-Ford Escape
-Ford Focus

Why are the big three hurting - simple, the unions.   Each company has had financial issues, but this is called capitalism.  In the early 2000's, I think all three were outputting vehicles that couldn't compete against overseas companies.   I personally think Ford was the company that stepped up first, and revamped the products to a much higher degree.   Dodge stepped up also and so did GM, just not the degree that Ford has. 

I like the comment, all of Fords SUV's are boxes.   Hmm, you want to think about that again?   

Here is what the big three could do in the U.S. if the union wasn't as much of a factor.  If your not impressed, go by your Kia............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pczGghB8MKg

I just found this video also.   THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ISSUE IS!~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pczGghB8MKg

In 2011 I was in the market for a truck.  I looked at the Chevy, Dodge and Ford 1/2 tons.    I was opened minded and wanted to see what was the best value for my money.   I bought the Ford.   Happy as could be.  I could have purchased the Dodge for the same money, but I wanted to keep my fuel consumption down and bought the 4.6 liter. I average 18 - 19 in the city and 22 - 23 on the highway. Sure it isn't as fast as the Dodge, but it is the best built vehicle I have ever owned.   I looked at fit and finish, feature set, ride quality, dependability, warranty and price.   

As much as I like the Challenger, I think the Mustang is better also when it comes down to criteria I had above. 

I refuse to drive a Toyota, Nissan, Kia,.. Just me.  But will always look to see the bang for buck in GM, Ford and Dodge moving forward.

[69DodgeCharger]

Why are the big three hurting - simple, the unions.

As a former victim of the UAW for 9 years I could not agree more.