Rebuilt Poly 318. No Power. HELP!

[Blackdog]

Well as some of you may remember we did a rebuilt on a 318 Poly, we got it all put together, in the car and running but theres one problem. No Power. It sounded alright when we first got it running but shook like pretty bad thinking ok its the cam (.450 .455). Got it tuned semi decent and took it for a drive. It had no get up and go really, and if you would kinda strech the RPMs a bit, and im not talking no more than 3500 it would miss pretty badly in my opinion.

So we upgraded the points to the Mopar Perf elec., new wires and thought ok this should take care of the missing problem. Hit the key started up much better than points by the way, took it for another drive and still gutlass.

Talked to our machine shop guy tonight about the idle shake, he said it was probably tight valves. So tonight we did a bit of adjustment on the valves. We got every cyl to TDC and backed them off to loose, got them snug then did a 1/4 turn. We did that through the firing order but when we got to 7 and 2 my dad noticed the rockers were VERY loose on some of them. We couldnt figure out why they were loose after we tightened them down. We figured if we did them at TDC of every cly the vavles would have no tension and that would be the best way to do it. But anyways, we did 7 and 2 then brang it back up to cly1 and tightend the loose ones down again through the firing order and did a 1/4 on the loose ones again.

So after we got them all reset, we fired it up and it started abit smoother but still shakes, not as much but still does. Took it to get something to eat but on the way there, there wasnt much of a difference in power and still ran like crap.

Any Ideas?

[RD]

sounds like you have a miss.

check each cylinder for spark, the wires may not be on the distributor good enough, or they may not be on the spark plugs well enough or, the wires are bad.  Make sure you have spark to each one though.

check your timing also.

[Chryco Psycho]

did you degree the cam when installing it ?

[Blackdog]

The timing is prob 25ish, hell maybe a lot more dont know, its to where it will run, also i was just told to install the cam staight up. So thats what i did. I just aligned the timing marks and that was it.

[RD]

timing marks dont look aligned there, did you do some turning after installation of the cam?  looks like you are off a tooth.

[Blackdog]

That was the only picture of what i had for the timing marks. Right after i saw that i went down and talked to our guy and told him i needed an offset key, he say why? Did you degree it? I said no. I told him it was off about half a tooth he said thats fine and wont make a difference. So when i got back i did a bit more tweaking with it and got it perfect i thought, i even got a striaght edge to check it. Maybe it was off a bit, I dont remember, but i believe i got it damn close.

[cudaken]

The timing is prob 25ish, hell maybe a lot more dont know, its to where it will run

Timing is the first thing I would check and make sure you know. Long time ago person I knew said he could make my 68 Road Runner idle better my timing it by ear. Yep, idle better and got my ass kicked my 289 2 barrel Mustang when I went around the block. Shot the timing and was 10 ATDC.

Get a light and shot the timing. I have never had a 318 Poly and don't know sh-t about them. Might try getting hold of Hemi Geno, he has a 318 Poly in his show stopping 1963 Flat Bed Dodge. Dual quads and all, and for a 5,000 plus pound truck it moves. I rode in it. Olny time I worred about getting a floor mat dusty in a truck in my life.

                               Cuda Ken

[Chryco Psycho]

I have seen the cam off by as much as 13* with the timing marks lined up properly which is why I always degree cams when I install them

[Blackdog]

Well Ken, today i took it down to the machinest and he looked at it. He did is thing. He couldn't find the timing mark, i pushed his timing gun down farther down... all i heard was holy sh*t. He guess it was at 40 or so. He couldnt find anything else wrong with it. But he said it was the carb and it was pushing wayyy to much gas down into the engine, you could actually see puddles on the secondarys. Its a 600cfm Edelbrock. Got it from Northern Auto Parts. Its a rebuilt/reman thing. So i guess its junk, cuz if you cover up the choke with your hand it runs much smoother and better. But if you close the choke it will die of course. So thats what gave it away for him that it was the carb. He did vaccum leak checks and all but he says thats what it is the carb. But now we got the timing to about 16 and ACTUALLY runs. So i guess its time to for a rebuilt on a new carb.

[Blackdog]

Really? That much? jeez... Well i hope a new carb will fix the problem. In that case, the next motor i build i will degree it. Thats some nice info to know. Thanks guys.

[69fuchs]

Just an observation, but I have to ask-did you change this thing to a hydraulic cam or is it a solid lifter like it came?  Are you certain about TDC in relation to your timing marks?  When you make your valve adjustments, I would use the factory service manual for the poly engine, making the marks on the damper, and rotating 90 degrees at a time.  The mopar performance chart is probably the best way, get the sticker!!!   If it is a hydraulic cam, zero lash plus a quarter turn is acceptable, but If it is a solid cam, keep in mind that some cam grinds need more/less lash than others.  The last poly I did with a solid cam was a tight lash .010 intake, .020 exhaust.  some are .020 intake and .030 exhaust.  If they are not adjusted properly it will run poorly when the engine is warmed up.

[69fuchs]

One more thing, I have had problems with mechanical fuel pumps on a engines--check the fuel pressure to see if it is to high.  6psi with an edlebrock. Any more than that, and you will push fuel past the needle and seat, causing your flooding problems.  Years ago I lost the bearings in a 318 poly because the fuel pump pressure was to high, and it thinned out the oil.  Expensive mistake!!!

[Blackdog]

Yeah, we converted it to hyd. It ran poorly even if it was cold or warm. The only mistake we did was tightening the valves and didn't recheck them. I noticed a difference on startup when we got done resetting the valves.

I dont believe its pushing more than 6psi to the carb. Its one from AutoZone that my dad picked up, some $13 piece. What would be the best way to test the PSI on the pump?

[69fuchs]

You can get a fuel pressure gauge from most parts stores.  Make sure that you get an adaptor tee fitting to go between the fuel line and the carb.  Did you get the cam custom ground for a poly engine?  The LA camshaft will fit in the A engine, but I asked a cam manufacturer about using the LA cam and they said no way--The engine would not run right.

[Chryco Psycho]

if you have a vacuum / prssure guage you can just hold it in the fuel line & crank the engine to check pressure also

[Blackdog]

OK, i think we will try the easiest and talk to AutoZone and see if it says anything on there computers. The cam was supposed to be a custom grind from Egge Machine http://www.egge.com/ They said it was only going to be like 100 or so. Waited a few weeks and it came. All i know it wasnt ground anytime this year or maybe the past 5 years the way it looked. It looked like it was sitting on a shelf for 5 or so years. Some dings and nicks, but that was taken care of by one of my buddys that makes cams and straightens them. So all was well. It had Neilson or one of those cam makers stamp on one of the ends with the lift specs. And yes the 318 cam will l go in the block with no problem and all but.... the problem isnt with the fireing order, its the head setup. the valve setup is like some of the fords, the regular valve setup on a 318 is :exh, in, in, exh: but the poly is :exh, in, exh, in, exh: Thats why the cam wont work, trust me I thought long and hard on that  

[Chryco Psycho]

makes sense , same situation with the B/RB & Hemi cams , the intake & exhaust reverse on some cylinders

[hemigeno]

The cam was supposed to be a custom grind from Egge Machine http://www.egge.com/ They said it was only going to be like 100 or so. Waited a few weeks and it cam. All i know it wasnt ground anytime this year or maybe the past 5 years the way it looked. It looked like it was sitting on a shelf for 5 or so years. Some like dings and nicks, but that was taken care of by one of my buddys that makes cams and straightens them. So all was well. It had Neilson or one of those cam makers stamp on one of the ends with the lift specs.

Boy, I hope you have better luck with that Nielsen cam than I did with mine.   I have a true Horror story with that guy, and I would NEVER touch one of his cams again, and I would CAREFULLY examine what you have for any signs of trouble.   My Nielsen cam went south before I had 200 miles on the engine, and showed signs of trouble before that because I couldn't seem to keep the valves adjusted.   Did your friend do a rockwell hardness test on the lobes, before and/or after the cleanup work he had to do?

Chris Nielsen personally assured me that I was purchasing a brand-new core, custom-ground (to my specs) camshaft for my large truck application.   In actuality, he sold me a reground cam, and he re-ground this cam so deeply that he went all the way through the material (on the base of the lobe) that had been parkerized/hardened.   I didn't find that out until after I had a post-mortem done on the failed cam.   The cam guy I ended up going to for help called that "getting into the butter", and it guarantees that a cam will fail.   I keep a ruined lifter from that debacle sitting on my desk as a reminder of how NOT to treat people.

I suppose Egge is a re-sell shop for Nielsen's "stuff".   Too bad, I had always heard good things about Egge...     

Geno

P.S.   CudaKen was a little light on the weight of my truck - it's about 7,500 to 8,000 lbs with no load...   It does move on down the road pretty good now