What's Up With This Nosecone?

[moparstuart]

   The guy in the red shirt orange cap,with his wife in green next to him is the owner of the car .

[Chris G.]

Now Dodge said it wasn't them but it was dealers using left over Daytona parts. Now if that DOES make them real Daytonas is up to who you ask,

Who you ask?

Why in 2008 are people still wondering if there were Factory 1970 Daytona's? There were not. A dealer conversion does not qualify a car as being REAL. Why is this so hard to understand by some??? 

They are cool cars with great history, but not real Daytona's. As soon as there is proof on the table, you can all tell me to go to hell. Until then...well...you can still tell me to go to hell, but it better be for a different reason. 

[moparstuart]

Now Dodge said it wasn't them but it was dealers using left over Daytona parts. Now if that DOES make them real Daytonas is up to who you ask,

Who you ask?

Why in 2008 are people still wondering if there were Factory 1970 Daytona's? There were not. A dealer conversion does not qualify a car as being REAL. Why is this so hard to understand by some??? 

They are cool cars with great history, but not real Daytona's. As soon as there is proof on the table, you can all tell me to go to hell. Until then...well...you can still tell me to go to hell, but it better be for a different reason. 

agree totally but you can still go to  #$#)     just joshing 

[Chris G.]

agree totally but you can still go to  #$#)     just joshing 

It's gonna be hot down there. 

[69_500]

Gotta join in this one sooner or later right.

So just for arguments sake, what is the difference in a 1970 dealer conversion to a Daytona, and Creative Industries conversion to a Daytona in 1969? Neither one was the factory right?

Okay so I don't buy the whole 3 1970 Daytona's story either, but I will admit that Jerry's Purple Daytona was a dealer conversion done VERY VERY VERY Early, and to me is as legit of a wing car as the rest of them.

[Blown70]

Gotta join in this one sooner or later right.

So just for arguments sake, what is the difference in a 1970 dealer conversion to a Daytona, and Creative Industries conversion to a Daytona in 1969? Neither one was the factory right?

Okay so I don't buy the whole 3 1970 Daytona's story either, but I will admit that Jerry's Purple Daytona was a dealer conversion done VERY VERY VERY Early, and to me is as legit of a wing car as the rest of them.

I would think that Chrysler licensed Creative to Make the daytonas.    Would it have been right for them to continue after Chrysler said stop?  The nijias would have show up like at PA..... (hehehe sorry could not help it)

Deal converstion is just that, not an original..... at least that is my opinion, as to me the value should NOT be significantly higher on a 70 dealer conversion.... AGAIN my opinion.

[moparstuart]

 one different is they were factory commisioned and had factory standard for uniform construction ( they all had the same body parts installed ) in 69

  if it was dealer done they could have just half made them or just made to what extent the customer requested  (clone)

[Chris G.]

So just for arguments sake, what is the difference in a 1970 dealer conversion to a Daytona, and Creative Industries conversion to a Daytona in 1969? Neither one was the factory right?

Did standard Chargers have XX VIN's? What did XX stand for?

Okay so I don't buy the whole 3 1970 Daytona's story either, but I will admit that Jerry's Purple Daytona was a dealer conversion done VERY VERY VERY Early, and to me is as legit of a wing car as the rest of them.

The biggest problem with how legends and tall tales get started, are because of comments like that. Who cares if something was done in 1971 or 2008? It was still modified after it was purchased as a 1970 Charger R/T (chrome bumper and all). I can't stand guy's that had a paint job back in the 70's, and all of a sudden it's accepted as original, or some guy saying he added a nose and a wing way back before cars were cool. Why does that all of a sudden become accepted as "original"?

Sure Creative did the conversions on the 69's, but did they leave the dealerships as R/T's and then the owners drive into Creative to have the car done? Nope...but that's how Jerry's car came to what it is.

[70Sbird]

Hello again,
I just wanted to clarify that I am not doubting that a Toronado nose could have been hacked up and "adapted creatively" to this Charger, as I re-read my post I may have sounded like I was saying it was not. I just remember the guy's kids saying that the first attempt to create a nose for this car was out of fiberglass and wood. I guess that didn't work out so well and the guy had a bodyman create another nose. If you compare the pictures above it does look like the center section and headlight are straight off a Toronado.
As I said also in the above post I'm still amazed that anyone in this day and age would actually think that this was a Daytona, including the old guy who used to own the car. He fabricated the whole nose and story based on the fact that the car had a wing bolted to the quarters, and some stories on the internet. The sad part is that I really think the guy believed he had a 70 Daytona.
I also would have to wonder in this day and age why someone would spend large money on a car like this and not have it checked out. Even if they are not Mopar savvy, there are plenty of resources (such as this and other forums) that can help with information.
I'm looking forward to seeing the car in person.

[70Sbird]

Here is the page from MCG with a funky front bumper like the "watermelon" Daytona
apparently the old guy read MCG too!

[Drache]

So just for arguments sake, what is the difference in a 1970 dealer conversion to a Daytona, and Creative Industries conversion to a Daytona in 1969? Neither one was the factory right?

Did standard Chargers have XX VIN's? What did XX stand for?

Okay so I don't buy the whole 3 1970 Daytona's story either, but I will admit that Jerry's Purple Daytona was a dealer conversion done VERY VERY VERY Early, and to me is as legit of a wing car as the rest of them.

The biggest problem with how legends and tall tales get started, are because of comments like that. Who cares if something was done in 1971 or 2008? It was still modified after it was purchased as a 1970 Charger R/T (chrome bumper and all). I can't stand guy's that had a paint job back in the 70's, and all of a sudden it's accepted as original, or some guy saying he added a nose and a wing way back before cars were cool. Why does that all of a sudden become accepted as "original"?

Sure Creative did the conversions on the 69's, but did they leave the dealerships as R/T's and then the owners drive into Creative to have the car done? Nope...but that's how Jerry's car came to what it is.

It was said that these cars were purchased WITH the Daytona parts already on them, so it wasn't buying a R/T and then driving it into Creative to the car done, the cars were driven off the lot already done up as Daytona's....

[Chris G.]

It was said that these cars were purchased WITH the Daytona parts

Drache, it was said where?

[Drache]

It was said that these cars were purchased WITH the Daytona parts

Drache, it was said where?

It was a website devoted to one of the so called "70 Dayontas". I had posted about it on the old forums and it started a huge debate there....

[Chris G.]

It was a website devoted to one of the so called "70 Dayontas". I had posted about it on the old forums and it started a huge debate there....

Well here's an update...all cars were found to be converted after being sold to the public. Take that however you want, but that's reality.

There's no debate, No "what if's", it's a slam door closed case. 

[Drache]

It was a website devoted to one of the so called "70 Dayontas". I had posted about it on the old forums and it started a huge debate there....

Well here's an update...all cars were found to be converted after being sold to the public. Take that however you want, but that's reality.

There's no debate, No "what if's", it's a slam door closed case. 

wow someone is cranky....

I was only putting forth what was read....

Might not have been true but that was for someone to come forth and explain it.....

[Troy]

one different is they were factory commisioned and had factory standard for uniform construction in 69

hahahahaha... "uniform construction". Have you looked at these things? (rhetorical question) Just hanging out with Danny, Gene, Doug, Jim, etc. I have learned that very few of these cars followed the instructions to a T. Quality control seemed to be an afterthought - if a thought at all. But, that's one of the things that makes these cars so cool (and so hard to duplicate).

Troy

[70Sbird]

Troy,
I had never thought of it that way but you are correct!
Maybe if there was some uniformity back then, the scissors jack and hold down plate that took me a couple of years to buy might actually fit into the car without me having to relocate the hold down stud that I so carefully "preserved" when I replaced the trunk floor!

I do agree with Chris G, if the car was sold as a Charger (1969 or 1970) without such things as a window plug, wing, or a nose, It is not a "real" Daytona.

Just my

Scott

[69_500]

I wasn't intending to start a whole debate, just throwing out a comment. Jerry's car is a known dealer conversion, its as simple as that. However it was done in 1970 not 2008, and it was actually converted before the original owner ever picked the car up. So yes there are differences in that car than say something that someone is building today. Does it make it worth $1M , NO. Does it make it unique, YES. 


Oh and side note, not all of the 500's have XX on the dash vin either, just had to point that one out. There are at least 4 know 500's that don't have XX on the dash either. But they are still 500's.

[Troy]

Maybe if there was some uniformity back then, the scissors jack and hold down plate that took me a couple of years to buy might actually fit into the car without me having to relocate the hold down stud that I so carefully "preserved" when I replaced the trunk floor!

Exactly! You aren't the only one with that particular issue either. These cars don't appear to have been assembled by "professionals".

Troy

[hotrod98]

I for one feel that there was at least one car built at the factory with the Daytona components. I think that once the daytona deal was deemed dead, the car was either destroyed or converted back to a regular charger. Don't know which, but either way is plausible. No, I don't have proof, but there is some evidence that can't be explained away.
I don't think that there were any 70 Daytonas sold to the public other than dealer converted cars for the late-comers that still wanted a wing car. 

[Drache]

I for one feel that there was at least one car built at the factory with the Daytona components. I think that once the daytona deal was deemed dead, the car was either destroyed or converted back to a regular charger. Don't know which, but either way is plausible. No, I don't have proof, but there is some evidence that can't be explained away.
I don't think that there were any 70 Daytonas sold to the public other than dealer converted cars for the late-comers that still wanted a wing car. 

Please dont think Im being sarcastic! What kind of evidence, Im truly interested! Feel free to PM me so we dont start any sort of debate of this 

[moparstuart]

one different is they were factory commisioned and had factory standard for uniform construction in 69

hahahahaha... "uniform construction". Have you looked at these things? (rhetorical question) Just hanging out with Danny, Gene, Doug, Jim, etc. I have learned that very few of these cars followed the instructions to a T. Quality control seemed to be an afterthought - if a thought at all. But, that's one of the things that makes these cars so cool (and so hard to duplicate).

Troy

well i meant loosly uniform not like a guy going into a dealership and having them covert a car them ship it to the local corvette shop down the street to have a bumper installed and so forth . I'm just saying there is a big difference between a factory air conditioning car and a hack job dealer installed set up right ?

[A383Wing]

OK...not to start a big argument here....what about the so called '70 Daytona with the loop front bumper sitting in front of the Chrysler place with the snow on the ground?

Bryan  (just askin'....)

[moparstuart]

I for one feel that there was at least one car built at the factory with the Daytona components. I think that once the daytona deal was deemed dead, the car was either destroyed or converted back to a regular charger. Don't know which, but either way is plausible. No, I don't have proof, but there is some evidence that can't be explained away.
I don't think that there were any 70 Daytonas sold to the public other than dealer converted cars for the late-comers that still wanted a wing car. 

Please dont think Im being sarcastic! What kind of evidence, Im truly interested! Feel free to PM me so we dont start any sort of debate of this 

I believe he's talking about the watermelon car that was pictured At chrysler but the car was not seen again to our knoledge after 70

[Ghoste]

As far as any real evidence to date, it's a clone that was somehow photographed on the property.  Chrysler says they didn't do it and no one has brought anything forward except those pics to say differently.  All it means is that someone had access to the car and property.