PPG K38 Paint Help.........

[hemi-hampton]

Yes, this is true but I dont think the guy asking this Question had a bunch of old spray guns laying around like us old timers, I got the impression he went out & bought his first gun, A $300+ primer gun. Yes this can be done also & I'm sure it would work, Just saying if I was to run out & buy my first gun or primer gun I dont think it would be a $300+ one, not saying it cant be done or wont work, just saying I'm not sure thats the best advise.  If I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion here then just disregard this statement. LEON.

[tan top]

I keep saying he needs a Primer gun. You dont use a top coat gun & then use that same gun for Primer. The 2 guns are used seperastely. Heres what you do to be more Specific. You buy a $300-$600 base coat gun, you then buy a $300-$600 clear coat gun, You then buy a cheap $50 Primer gun. The base gun only used for base, the clear gun only used for clear, the primer gun only used for primer. You dont waste $300 on a Primer gun, Thats Stupid. Primer guns dont last long & you dont want to keep replacing them at $300 a pop. I prime not just one panel at a time but Complete cars with K-38 with my cheap $50 2.0 tip gun & in 90 degree heat & have no problem. I dont have A/C in the spray booth. Use a smaller tip in Primer gun to use/spray the thinner sealer. This is just my opinion but if you do things this way you'll have no problem, I dont. LEON.

P.S. I use Sata Jet guns. 

   

yep i agree            one for  base coat , one for clear coat  &  a cheepy  with a big fluid tip & air cap for primer . ..been painting  18 years   my self  ...   & been using sata guns since the NR 95  came out .   

I not saying You shouldnt have a dedicated primer gun, But it dont have to be a cheapy! a good older paint gun works well too!

yep thats true also    ( 1 hot 68)     best results  is to get a fluid tip /needel  & air cap set up  1.8 - 2.0  if its high build primer ....

[Charger-Bodie]

Yes, this is true but I dont think the guy asking this Question had a bunch of old spray guns laying around like us old timers, I got the impression he went out & bought his first gun, A $300+ primer gun. Yes this can be done also & I'm sure it would work, Just saying if I was to run out & buy my first gun or primer gun I dont think it would be a $300+ one, not saying it cant be done or wont work, just saying I'm not sure thats the best advise.  If I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion here then just disregard this statement. LEON.

BUT, If this guy is doing a car on his own , don't-cha think he'd be served well with a good all around gun , that maybe he can also spray his door jambs etc. with? instead of some "buffalo" 2.2 gun from harbor freight?

[hemi-hampton]

If your on a budget & can only afford one gun then yes. If not then no. I dont want to prime with a gun, then paint with it, then clear with it, then prime again then go to paint again & opps, have big chunks of old crusty primer shoot out into my paint job. Thats why you want 3 seperate guns. BUT, If your on a budget or not real nitpicky about possible primer shooting into your paint job while trying to paint because you've used the same gun to prime as paint & clear, or paint shooting out when clearing then this is all right. If you must use one gun just make sure you clean it real good after each use. I prefer to use 3 guns to avoid these types of problems but if someone wants to use one, thats OK with me. LEON.

[69 OUR/TEA]

O.K,figure I'll jump back in here since this thread is most likely to go into 3 pages,and the main topic from the beginning has been needing monster tip guns for priming.The orig poster of this thread said he had a problem with pot life and does he have to clean his gun every time while waiting for the next coat.Also said his gun is stopping and starting while he is trying to spray,come to find out he had left that little strainer in the bottom.FIRST BIG PROBLEM!!!!!! Second I will go on a limb and say it is not a popular gun by the auto body folks.
  Now,it appears that he only has this one gun,and is in need of a new one for all his auto body needs.This is where I chimed in and said how I use my GTI Millenium(which has 1.3,1.4,1.5 tips),and liked it very much,and have sprayed everything out of it(except for polyester primer,for that I do have a gun with a 2.2 tip).With the investment of $300.00 ish ,he now has a gun he can base/ clear with(1.3),epoxy/sealer(1.4)and primer(1.5).Now it has been established that the GTI is NOT a primer gun,true,but as 1hot68 said,does not mean you cannot use it as one.It appears that 83charger2.2 is going on technical data and research of the gun,not actual field experience with it,because if he did actually have one and used,he would see it works!!!!
  Seeing this post go on,makes me laugh because as it is happens I just today sprayed NCP with it,which if you compare the tech sheets of NCP and K38 ,it shows NCP is a higher solids than K38.On another note,I also have had this gun since around 2000,never wore it out from priming,etc.Pretty much a good reliable gun that I use on everything.
  Now,Leon I see you talk about remnints of primer being in the gun and coming out while spraying something else,I dismantle the gun every time I use it,and fully clean it.Never had an issue.In fact,today while spraying the NCP,just as I told 68mmcharger,the pot life is the same as K38,and by the third coat,as the primer starts to set up in the gun while waiting,I quickly cleaned it out (a whole 2 minutes)before the third coat,threw the primer back in,presto!!! sprays like it's the first coat all over again.When I store the gun,it gets a 1/4 full a wash thinner left in it with the air cap soaking in it.
   There are alot of alot of auto body novices on this site just as there are experienced ones,and one thing is we all appear to do things different,but if you are going to go into debate with others,have the offense of your reasoning be that you have been there ,done that.
    I think 1hot68 ,which to me has good credability,is on the same wavelength as we are both saying how this guy gets an all around gun for himself at a good price.And IMO, with his climate down there,if the 1.5 is not cutting it,and he actually needs the 1.8 tip,for a mere $54.00,adds to his GTI setup.Take care of the gun and it will give him years of service!Take care.
   
 

[hemi-hampton]

If he's looking for a one size fits all gun then maybe this would be a good gun for that. Did not know that was the Question. The part about using the gun for multi purpose but possibly changing to a 1.8 for Priming sounds like a good one to me. Yes, totally dismantling the gun after each use is best & i'd prefer to do my self but my particular mass production at times prohibites that & all I use at times is a Gun Cleaner that pumps Laquer thinner threw partially dissassembled gun for 5 minutes. Sometimes I'm on Restos all week then new cars all week. With the new cars you can be spraying constantly all day different colors ect, lots of gun cleaning. Not like a Resto. SO, Guess it depends on intended purpose & situation. No insult intended. LEON.

[Todd Wilson]

 

[hemi-hampton]

 

[hemi-hampton]

Here's the last complete car I primed in K38 a few months back. LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

T7 Bronze paint

[68mmcharger]

Thanks guys, you have provided me with lots of input. Some of it very lively.... and I have learned a lot.

As the starter of this thread my basic problem was spray gun not spraying steady spray and K38 drying in gun before it I could get 12 ounces or so out. Also primer surface was going on very dry and rough. There was a couple of things causing my problems. Biggest appears to have been the strainer in the gun slowing spray combined with the 1.4 tip size. The Ingersol Rand gun I was using had no options for different tip sizes so I replaced it, based on recommendations, with a Devilbiss GTI set up with multiple tips. Using the 1.5 tip and no strainer, there is no comparison with the IR gun. Looks like the primer was drying in the IR gun due to the 90 degree temp and the long time I was taking trying to spray the primer with the inconsistent spray.

The GTI is working great so far and I disassemble and clean the cap, tip and needle after each use.  Since I have am restoring only this car at this point I needed a gun that ideally can used for primer, base and clear coat.

Sure is nice to have a site where one can get this sort of info and this much dialog.

69OUR/TEA - What tip size do you use for base and clear?

Kevin

[Charger-Bodie]

I could post hundreds of Pics of cars I've done in Various priming stages & resto stages But I really dont think people want to be bored with such things as all my k-38 & other primer pics. LEON.

You are right about that  But atleast we got to see a few! 

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hey Kevin,
    great to hear it is working good for you,I use the 1.3 tip for base and clear,seeing that you are using PPG products,I usually use DBC for base,and  2042(when I need a fast clear,real nice stuff),and 2021 for my overall clear.
   

[68mmcharger]

69 OUR/TEA - Thanks for answering my question on tip sizes, even though you had already provided the info in a earlier post that I didn't read throughly.

[hemi-hampton]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

[hemi-hampton]

 

[Charger-Bodie]

   

[hemi-hampton]

 

[Todd Wilson]

 

[83CHARGER2.2]

Kevin,

The bottom line is that your problems (two) were pot life and a spray gun choice.  The posts that I provided are basically saying that when purchasing a spray gun for a specific purpose, do not purchase something that you will be sorry for later.  I know that there are a lot of folks that may be purchasing $300 guns and then, disposing of them, but most of the time your money needs to count for equipment that you need.

As some folks are stating "I not saying You shouldnt have a dedicated primer gun, But it dont have to be a cheapy! a good older paint gun works well too", and that a GTI works for 69OUR/TEA, that is great. But there are a lot of contridicting going on.   In the world of urethane primers, you want a piece of equipment that will work 100% for that application.  A primer gun is made for primer, just that.  A worn gun or a topcoat gun are not designed for primer. 

As 1hot68 stated that there is he said she said info, he may be correct for other posts, but not mine.  I stated that I checked a PPG Rep just as a reference to verify my own usage and understandings.  You, know a double check, that is what a factory REP is for. 

I also feel that someone who is recommending a topcoat gun, and telling me that I am not basing my explanation on field experience, should evaluate himself again.  I have been painting vehicles for flat rate, restoration, and commercial for over 20 years.  I am not saying I am the best either, as some folks imply.  I have two GTI's which I do not even use anymore, and my primary guns are SATA NR3000's and RP 3000's.  Small tip guns for base, especially high metallic colors, 1.4 for Clear. 

I have worked in primarily PPG Shops using K38, NCP 271, DPHS 52,etc and I have always used a specific DEDICATED primer gun for primer. 

When you are priming a large area (overall of a car, Nose of a over the road truck, EUCLID, etc) in FLorida, you will give yourself an education and get the correct setup for what works in hot temps, with fast drying products.  I would like to know how much K38 69 OUR/TEA has even sprayed??

Every one will have their own opinion, but they all have to base upon the basics and the facts of a product.  WIll a worn gun work for primer,  sure.  What wheres?  The packing, the needle, etc.  If the gun was so good as a topcoat gun, then why not rebuild at a fraction of the cost?  (If it was a good namebrand gun to start with?). 

Do not forget, in most professional environments, HVLP is a must, and fines are given for shops without these HVLP Guns in use.   There for older guns are unacceptable.   Hopefully you have solved or worked around your problems, and have achieved success.  Good Luck.

[1969chargerrtse]

                    Well that was an interesting thread.

[Todd Wilson]

I think you all are wrong and dont know what you are talking about...........




Todd

[dads_69]

Holy crap, all this (political debate) over some primer use? My two cents, like it's worth a damn right now.
Every paint has it's own designated use, primer, base coats single stage clear etc...
IMO, anyone using a GTI for primer, well, if it were my gun that person was using, he/her would be fired!
Primer requires at least, for correct amount applied a 1.5 to 2.0 tip. yes, you can use *whatever8 gun tip *you* chose to shoot primer with, but the correct amount of primer will not be laid down, unless you apply more then needed for whatever your doing.
As for *83charger2.2* you don't use your GTI guns anymore, sweet, give them to me! Unless they're worn out, keep 'em.
I shoot PPG, Dupont, Nasson, etc... All brands of paint, primer clear. It's my job to do what makes the customer happy. Certified in 4 paint products as well.
In closing, use a gun specified for primer only, just like a gun is used for base coats and clear only. Thats how the best results end up in the end.

Gees, what a long ass post this has turned into.

83charger2.2, a 1.4 tip for clear, wow, your really dumping the material on buddy, try a 1.2 tip w/your GTI gun and see the savings/difference.



Mark

[Charger-Bodie]

Holy crap, all this (political debate) over some primer use? My two cents, like it's worth a damn right now.
Every paint has it's own designated use, primer, base coats single stage clear etc...
IMO, anyone using a GTI for primer, well, if it were my gun that person was using, he/her would be fired!
Primer requires at least, for correct amount applied a 1.5 to 2.0 tip. yes, you can use *whatever8 gun tip *you* chose to shoot primer with, but the correct amount of primer will not be laid down, unless you apply more then needed for whatever your doing.
As for *83charger2.2* you don't use your GTI guns anymore, sweet, give them to me! Unless they're worn out, keep 'em.
I shoot PPG, Dupont, Nasson, etc... All brands of paint, primer clear. It's my job to do what makes the customer happy. Certified in 4 paint products as well.
In closing, use a gun specified for primer only, just like a gun is used for base coats and clear only. Thats how the best results end up in the end.

Gees, what a long ass post this has turned into.

83charger2.2, a 1.4 tip for clear, wow, your really dumping the material on buddy, try a 1.2 tip w/your GTI gun and see the savings/difference.



Mark

I think the main problem is that most people in this thread are missing the point............This guy is one guy doing one car, not a fully equiped resto shop !!!! he wanted a good gun to use for all aspects of doing his ONE car and he bought the gun, likes it,and is very happy with the results!! So I say we leave him be , and everyone can stop pumping their chests and go do some work!!