Layson's Restoration Busted at Carlisle by Police!!

[RallyeMike]

After aquiring Jeep, Chrysler sued a guy who's last name is Jeep, and made him change the name of Jeep's bar! Talk about F-ing communism!

They are responsible for the rediculous expense of being involved in the Mopar hobby or car hobby period today. When they sued toy makers,  model car companies and aftermarket manufacturers, it drove the prices of everything sky high. For these companies to stay in business, they have to pass the cost on to the consumer. When GM and Ford saw how Chrysler was going to get all these royalties they followed suit. So yes you can blame Chrysler for pricing many vintage cars/parts from any automaker out of the hands of many enthusiasts.

   Communism?! That's textbook capitalism !. The hordes of bloodsucking lawyers you find in the capitalist world just don't infest the communist one. The commies pretty much just take care of things. Theyre very efficient that way.

I for one am glad that Chrysler doesnt make restoration parts. They'd just F it up and charge 2x what the stuff goes for now.

Are there any licensed reproducers on this board? Does anyone actually have any facts on how much it costs to license anything from Mopar?

[hemi-hampton]

The problem is not the Pentastar on parts, the problem is Chrysler is not getting there share, They call them Counterfeit today but if he agreed to pay them there Licensing fee then these same parts get Chryslers seal of Approval stamp & now all of the sudden these same counterfeit parts are suddenly no longer counterfeit. They did the same thing with Mopar Performance Magazine in the 80's Give us our cut for using our name or else. They then changed the name to Mo Performance & Chrysler still sued them saying the name was still sounding to much like Mopar They went out of Business. Alot of these Reproduction companies went to Mopar in mid 80's asking them to reproduce parts. They said no, not enough demand to make us any money. SO, People reproduced there own aftermarket parts & Mopar did not care, For the first couple of years until they seen a profit to be made with the resoration boom of the late 80's. Then they decided they made a mistake & wanted in on it. I say to late, you had your chance A little history recap for those who forgotten or never knew? LEON.

[JimShine]

The ENTIRE problem is the Pentastar on the part. Putting the Pentastar on a part gives the illusion it is a Chrysler part. Yes, they want money for parts that others makewith their emblem on them. That is fair. If you look around, there are parts out there with no Pentastars on them that are NOT licensed and the makers are not violating any laws.

They hold the rights to the Pentastar logo and they desrve to be able to enforce those rights.

[69bronzeT5]

I'm with you Kevin, the cops obviously wanted to make an impression so they come down in force but then they two faced it by not wanting photos taken.  These weren't violent offenders and even if Rob Wolfe is Captain Mullet and we don't like him, how would we feel if they impounded Shelby's car (just to make "sure") and handcuffed her for a while (just in case).

Well, they wouldn't let her get her medicine or clothes til they were done. If you look you can see Shelby behind her car.  What upsets me about this is Carlisle knew this was going down. That was the Young Guns Class over there. I think that they should have moved the class somewhere else, before the show even started.  No bodies cars should have been over there. What if someone's car got damaged or worse an innocent by-stander got hurt. 

If my car was there and they taped it off and wouldnt let me get to it....I'd be mad as hell.

[bull]

So whose PR suffered worse with this incident, Chrysler's or Layson's? They both suck in the PR dept. IMO, but I don't know which one's worse.

I think Dodge Don is right though. Chrysler hasn't been interested in helping this hobby out much so what are they out really? It'd be interesting to hear BEAPARTS' (MIke's) opinion on this.

[Dodge Don]

Let's say a guy comes in with a destroyed fender.  And I custom make him one by having ol' Charlie beat one out of sheet metal, "old school".  Should I be arrested for creating a "fraudulent" part?

Lots to consider here.

As soon as you stamp a Pentastar on it it is COUNTERFEITING and selling it is FRAUD.

Yes, that is what it is all about. The use of the Pentastar on the reproduction part is the crime. There wouldn't be an issue if they just made the parts without the Pentastars. But if they did that, they would never get top dollar for them as they are no longer 'exact'. What they were doing was making "Cola" and marking the can "Coca Cola".

But Jim, the difference here is that Coca Cola actually makes Coke however Chrysler does not make these parts. So they are not losing any revenue from the creation and sale of these parts....other than the vendor not slipping an envelope of cash in their pocket and bending down to kiss their ring.

I too am interested in hearing more details on the Mopar licensing prorgram from a vendors perspective.

So who is to say that Chrysler won't turn around and go after Troy for Dodge Charger.Com.......or after Chris and I for 70 Charger Registry.......or Chris for the 69 Charger Registry.....etc etc

I'm sure we don't have the full story and maybe Layson's was up to some monkey business we don't know about, possible, so far all I see is Chrysler going after them for trademark/counterfeit issues...we'll see.....or maybe Layson's was the one shop that refused to bend to Chryslers will.....villian? rebel? hero? We'll see.

[Troy]

Gunslinger (Jason), BE&A (Mike), and possibly Bill from A+M High Tech are more familiar with the licensing program. From what I understand it's approximately 10% of the cost of the part. That's one reason why the PG Classic parts are less expensive than the BE&A parts even though they are made by the same people at the same manufacturing facility. Gene and I talked to a vendor at Carlisle who mentioned that their licensing agreement was running out so they sold off everything so they didn't have to renew it. That's the first I had heard of that. I thought the agreement was to produce the parts but I guess maybe it's to sell the part(?). I'll try to find out more.

The difference between the web sites and parts vendors is that web sites aren't in direct competition with Chrysler's core business. As long as a web site is informational/educational and not selling a competing product it should be safe from any legal issues involving trademark infringement. It's even better if the site registers with Chrysler as a fan club and also becomes a Non Profit to prove that they don't have any intention to compete. That isn't to say that Chrysler can't make things difficult but it puts them in a much weaker position. Ford recently got themselves in a mess doing something similar so it isn't unthinkable.

Troy

[hutch]

Is he some mob kingpin or major drug dealer?

for a crime like this, do we need to have cops with hoods on making the bust?  Do we live in a nation now where we have secrete police making non drug/ non violent crime busts with hoods on?  No one should be arrested by secrete police in Amercia like that for such a petty crime, we should all see the face of the men that want to put chains on us. 

What Layson did was wrong and they should go to court for it and have the process run it course, but to have hooded cops show up for such a petty crime like this is a bit of a worry for anyone that respects freedom.  They should show their face.  Plus, why such the heavy hand, did the guy have a violent history?  They should have just been summoned to court via a law suit unless they are part of some orginized crime outfit.

[BigBlackDodge]

Maybe he was cold out there...................


BBD

[Old Moparz]

Believe me I know this is not just trademark infringement  I know a former employee and the cops were at the former employees house yesterday.  there is a lot of dirty crap going on with this guy.  Just feel real sorry for the employees caught in his dirty deeds!

A new member with only 2 posts, both of which say nothing but comments about Layson.

You have a special agenda here?

[hutch]

Maybe he was cold out there...................


BBD

I bet he had lipstick on and was all excited about his new gloves matching his outfit.

[IowaCharger69]

typically those are guys with roles other identity sensitive task forces. Some of the guys I know have to work double duty.

[hutch]

typically those are guys with roles other identity sensitive task forces. Some of the guys I know have to work double duty.

true, like undercover drug task force I bet.  Just does not sit right with me seeing cops walking around with hoods on.  Thats something you see in 1950 USSR. 

[Kevin68N71]

So who is to say that Chrysler won't turn around and go after Troy for Dodge Charger.Com.......or after Chris and I for 70 Charger Registry.......or Chris for the 69 Charger Registry.....etc etc

You bet.  I know there was a Barbie website for collecting Mattel's Barbie, and Mattel tried to sue for the use of their name.  Mind you, no product was being sold.  I think they had a problem with the use of their logo on the site!

My solution to that, if I had a website, is not to use anyone's logo.   Slip in a url pointer to the logo on THEIR site.  Go ahead, try to sue someone for a pointer.  Good luck.

And no, I don't collect Barbies!!!!

[IowaCharger69]

typically those are guys with roles other identity sensitive task forces. Some of the guys I know have to work double duty.

true, like undercover drug task force I bet.  Just does not sit right with me seeing cops walking around with hoods on.  Thats something you see in 1950 USSR. 

It is incredible unsettling.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Some information about additional raids on Monday at Layson's in Washington state:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/412500.html

Also a response to the Carlisle raid by Dave Layson or his attorney...

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/crime

XS

[Todd Wilson]

Some information about additional raids on Monday at Layson's in Washington state:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/412500.html

Also a response to the Carlisle raid by Dave Layson or his attorney...

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/crime

XS

Thanks for those links!  I wonder if they were selling forged pistons too?   


Todd

[71 B5383]

Does seem a little fishy!   

Believe me I know this is not just trademark infringement  I know a former employee and the cops were at the former employees house yesterday.  there is a lot of dirty crap going on with this guy.  Just feel real sorry for the employees caught in his dirty deeds!

A new member with only 2 posts, both of which say nothing but comments about Layson.

You have a special agenda here?
]

[Dodge Don]

Some information about additional raids on Monday at Layson's in Washington state:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/412500.html

Also a response to the Carlisle raid by Dave Layson or his attorney...

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/crime

XS

Interesting. Given Layson's poor customer service experiences noted by some they are probably not a good poster child for sqeaky clean vendors but I still don't like how Chrysler is dealing with this. The whole thing stinks.

[hemi68charger]

Some information about additional raids on Monday at Layson's in Washington state:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/412500.html

Also a response to the Carlisle raid by Dave Layson or his attorney...

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/crime

XS

Interesting. Given Layson's poor customer service experiences noted by some they are probably not a good poster child for sqeaky clean vendors but I still don't like how Chrysler is dealing with this. The whole thing stinks.

Don, like one has eluded to, there's probably been contact from Chrysler numerous times on this topic of licensing.. You see it all over the place now where you have "authorized" vendors................  Dave probably just didn't wanna come down from his pedestal long enough to get "authorized".... Chrysler probably had enough.......  My dealings with him in the past gave me his true colors..... and they don't paint a pretty picture.........

Cheers,
Troy

[69bronzeT5]

Chrysler is turning into Ford........

I recall where a guy photographed a Mustang and started selling his pictures as posters and etc and Ford tried sueing him for copyright issues. He didn't steal the pictures either, he took them at a car show himself.

[max]

The difference between the web sites and parts vendors is that web sites aren't in direct competition with Chrysler's core business. As long as a web site is informational/educational and not selling a competing product it should be safe from any legal issues involving trademark infringement. It's even better if the site registers with Chrysler as a fan club and also becomes a Non Profit to prove that they don't have any intention to compete. That isn't to say that Chrysler can't make things difficult but it puts them in a much weaker position. Ford recently got themselves in a mess doing something similar so it isn't unthinkable.

Troy

if i remember correctly a few years back a web site called scatpack.com was being harassed by Chrysler Corp over something they were doing and was threaten to be shut down, but i never read anything else about it.

so today it's repo parts they are going after, but what about later when small vendors or average Joes are selling 30-40 year old original parts at these shows. is Chrysler going to want a percentage on every old original part that is being sold and made money on since it carries their part # and trademark? 

[bakerhillpins]

Let's say a guy comes in with a destroyed fender.  And I custom make him one by having ol' Charlie beat one out of sheet metal, "old school".  Should I be arrested for creating a "fraudulent" part?

Lots to consider here.

As soon as you stamp a Pentastar on it it is COUNTERFEITING and selling it is FRAUD.

I am not quite sure that your statement is correct if we strictly consider the example quoted above. As I understand it you are allowed under existing laws to re manufacture or have re manufactured a part to replace the one you own. Even if you stamp the Pentastar on it. Since it is for your own use.

As soon as you start making reproductions and selling them to the open market then you start running into issues.

[TUFCAT]

Some information about additional raids on Monday at Layson's in Washington state:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/412500.html

Also a response to the Carlisle raid by Dave Layson or his attorney...

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/crime

XS

Thanks for those links!  I wonder if they were selling forged pistons too?   


Todd

Obviously they mean "forged" as in forgery.   I don't think Dave Layson is practicing the art of "forging metal" quite yet.... however, with good behavior, he could get that job in prison.   Prisoners have been hammering metal into useful tools since the Bronze Age.   

[JimShine]

But Jim, the difference here is that Coca Cola actually makes Coke however Chrysler does not make these parts. So they are not losing any revenue from the creation and sale of these parts....other than the vendor not slipping an envelope of cash in their pocket and bending down to kiss their ring.

Actually, Coca Cola is bottled by a series of franchises. They buy the the syrup from Coca Cola and pay to use the name.

It is not fair to Chrysler for parts to be manufactured and sold with their logo without their permission and compensation. This same problem exists in many other areas. Guitar guys know the names "Fender" and "Gibson". These companies fight even harder than the automakers to keep people from creating forged parts with the name, logos, headstock shapes and sometimes even body shapes. I myself have received Cease and Desist letters a decade ago when I was selling replacement headstock decals. Most people try to look for gray areas, but the law sees it as black and white.