Different ways to shift a manual trans vehicle?

[toupee]

Hey all,

Just wanted to throw this out there for discussion. 

I was taught to always use the clutch when changing gears in a manual tranny vehicle.  All the truck drivers I know though will only use the clutch when going into first or downshifting.  Otherwise they just try to match the revs and pull from one gear to the next without the clutch pedal depressed.

How many reading this shift with the clutch pedal and how many without?

[1969chargerrtse]

I've had many 4 speed Muscle cars from the 60's and 70's.  I played around with not using the clutch just for fun, but mostly I used the clutch just to be courteous to the trani.  I didn't want to risk being off timed and grinding a pound.   I've done the same on my bikes, but again went back to the way the owners manual suggest.

[WingCharger]

Hhhmmm... .

[Aero426]

There obviously is a sweet spot where gears will drop in from one to another.  But generally speaking,  I would imagine not that using the clutch is hard on a synchromesh transmission, and you have to get it just right.     Where possible, I will sometimes double clutch and match revs on a downshift.     

On some classic cars with no synchromesh,  matching revs up and down is the only way. 

[Joshua]

My brother used to race my dad in our junker cars. Geo Metro and Toyota Tercel. He powershifted without the clutch for a month or so, and then the clutch went out. It was a chore replacing it too.

How does a clutch go out when it's not used???

And powershifting is shifting with the clutch, you just don't let up on the throttle

[WingCharger]

.

[hemigeno]

Years ago when I went to buy my 4-speed R/T, the old codger that owned it took me out for a test drive with me driving a Hemicar -- that I didn't yet own -- for the first time.  This guy used to road race anything with four wheels at Riverside (CA) on an amateur level back in the '60s and early '70s before moving to Texas, so he was an experienced wheelman.  When I started clutching with each shift, he growled at me something to the effect of "Clutches are for starting off and for [[expletive intentionally deleted]]!!"  I asked him how I was supposed to shift, and he said "Heel & Toe boy, Heel & Toe..."  I still remember the look he gave me...

I pulled over and let him drive the rest of the way - but at least he still sold me the car!

[Kevin68N71]

I have had alot of fun playing with my 88 Mustang GT to see how far I could go without shifting.

Years back, I didn't have alot of money and the car's original clutch (at 185,000 miles, and no, I am not lying!) was wearing really thin--but I kept going with it.  I was driving the car to and from downtown Los Angeles out to Riverside county, about 45 miles each way, daily.

Just getting onto the freeway leaving downtown, the clutch no longer worked.  I forced the car from 2nd to 3rd and back, dodging cars (it was actually a plus that the freeways were crowded, but not stop and go).  I got from downtown LA to Diamond Bar with no clutch, revving the engine to drop to second and getting speed up, revving the engine and popping it into third.  My idea was that I was not going to be able to make it home, as there would be stoplights off the freeway, but I could limit my towing charges.

I got close enough to home that AAA took me the rest of the way for free!

That said, I have heard that shifting without the clutch is very hard on the synchros, and is not recommended by any manufacturer.  If it creates wear, why do it except for maybe the occasional fun stab at it?

To me, long clutch wear is arrived at by using the clutch MINIMALLY for each shift.  If adjusted properly, many cars you don't need to go down to the floor with the clutch, just enough to smoothly shift.  That really saves on the clutch.

[Todd Wilson]

You got to use the clutch in the old 1947!   


Todd

 

[Back N Black]

My brother used to race my dad in our junker cars. Geo Metro and Toyota Tercel. He powershifted without the clutch for a month or so, and then the clutch went out. It was a chore replacing it too.

How does a clutch go out when it's not used???

And powershifting is shifting with the clutch, you just don't let up on the throttle

Hey, where I live, things have a different meaning. You cant speak non that.

It was a damn Geo Metro, who cares how something broke, it did!
Powershifting here means not using the clutch.

A little sensitive are we.   

[SeattleCharger]

good thing about learning to shift without clutch, if your clutch goes out, you don't have to be stranded.  when car is off at stop, put it in first, turn the key, the starter will move you forward and compression start the car, you can shift through gears up and down while driving, try to get the car home or to shop, whatever, to avoid being stranded or needing tow, if you must stop, you can go into neutral and start back up if lucky enough to be on hill, or you have to turn off ignition and then compression start with starter again.    not the best thing for car maybe, but it works, did this with celica and full size blazer, no problem.

   I used to shift my old 75 celica way back when without using the clutch, upshift and downshift all the time, over 100K miles, did it easy, never had clutch or trans problems,
  I imagine different vehicles would work differently, probably little imports are easier ?  I don't know

[craigandlynda]

not using the clutch is asking for extra wear.

i used to drag a sixpak bee w 4 speed...everyone talks about wearing the disc, but i found the pressure plate to be the key ingredient to success...getting a good grip off the line meant a plate with stiff enough springs to make a solid connection w no slippage...i had a few that i rebuilt myself just for racing, filling all the spring positions w the stiffest springs available....great out of the hole, and instant thrust forward with every shift...of course, this was a race car only, street use would have me with worn out leg muscles in ten minutes of normal driving...

for most applications, "follow manufacturers recommendations"....

another similar experience...years ago, i drove taxicab in the city of philadelphia...the cabs were 1963 plymouth savoys...slant six, three on tree....you could start out in first, push shift lever up in to second, and then when you wanted to upshift to third, just step on the clutch, let off the gas, and...the shift lever was so heavy, it would drop itself down into third gear....no hands needed.  came in useful when i wanted to munch on a sandwich while driving.

[John_Kunkel]

"Big truck" transmissions don't have synchronizers so you have to double-clutch or find the sweet spot and shift without the clutch. I have become quite adept at clutchless shifting in big rigs but some cars seem impervious to the same technique while others are easy. 

[472 R/T SE]

The only time I'd double clutch was pulling a grade that was so steep that once out of gear you slow two or more gears worth down so I'd grab a couple gears.  You'd have to be good at it cause you don't want to start over on a grade with any kind of load.

You really gotta time it right with a gas rig and when you miss it makes all kinda racket.

I started out in the oil fields of western Kansas moving rotary rigs and would drive bare footed to get more of a feel.  There's always the few who swear by using the clutch but the old guy that taught me didn't so that's how I learned.  At a stop, or starting one up is the only time I clutched.

The new cranes I drove were Allison or Liebherr automatics.  They would have transmission brakes, worked pretty slick.  Just had to watch the tranny fluid temperature.

[Chryco Psycho]

I never use the clutch in my Cummins & generally powershift in muscle cars , just kick the clutch 1/2 way down & slide off the side of the pedal while putting pressure on the stick , it will sound like an auto outside the car

[toupee]

One of the fellas I know now drives a 02 3500 cummins.  He was taught to not use the clutch in the air force while learning to drive a semi.  He still doesn't on his Dodge and it's got close to or over a 100,000 miles on it with no clutch issues.  He drives like a half asleep old woman, though.  No quick revs or anything... 45-55 MPH.
Some of my employees try to go clutchless on our F550's but they aren't synchronized well enough or something so it usually just makes a wracket. 
Maybe it's just from where I've always used the clutch, but I just never feal right when I shift without it.  Had a Nissan Sentra Spec V that would shift as easily without the clutch as with it.  I know because I did it by accident more than once.  It also came out of 6th gear sometimes for no reason 

[suntech]

Coming from Europe, and used to the cars here, i always clutch. Also my dad, that used to drive big rigs, did that, but that was with syncronized gearcase. Back in 01 i crewed on a powerboat team in US, and drove the rig to the races, and that was the first time i got to drive with the Fuller transmission. Used the clutch just to start and stop, and for the rest i just slided it in to gear, upshifting or downshifting. Like in butter, when i got used to it, and i loved it!!!!

[aussiemuscle]

good thing about learning to shift without clutch, if your clutch goes out, you don't have to be stranded.  when car is off at stop, put it in first, turn the key, the starter will move you forward and compression start the car, you can shift through gears up and down while driving, try to get the car home or to shop, whatever, to avoid being stranded or needing tow, if you must stop, you can go into neutral and start back up if lucky enough to be on hill, or you have to turn off ignition and then compression start with starter again.    not the best thing for car maybe, but it works, did this with celica and full size blazer, no problem.

they were asking on the mad max forum how Mel was able to drive around with a shot leg. since you can start a car without a clutch as you suggest, i guess that is what he did.

[Joshua]

good thing about learning to shift without clutch, if your clutch goes out, you don't have to be stranded. 

If your clutch goes out......your car won't move....'cause the lining is toast or the pressure plate is F'd.....
Now if the clutch LINKAGE or cable breaks.....then yes, you can get home.

[RallyeMike]

If you really want to have some experimental fun with a manual, turn off the ignition while in gear and clutch engaged, coast 100 feet, and turn the ignition back back on.

[ChargerRon]

If you really want to have some experimental fun with a manual, turn off the ignition while in gear and clutch engaged, coast 100 feet, and turn the ignition back back on.

BOOM!!!!!!       

[craigandlynda]

it's a great way to burn out the packing in glass pack mufflers...really "lights off" those cherry bombs!