Why are Cudas so popular?

[Brock Samson]

 couple thoughts come up for me...

the original Bacarrudas couldn't hold a BB
and like the original charger were a plymouth signet with a new fast back, both the mustang and camaro were new bodies entirely.
the second version bacarruda held a BB with difficulty - minus a power brake booster.
and also had a lot of compition from the new firebird, camaro, cougar, a new mustang and in '68 the new Javalin and AMX...
the third CUDA was designed specificly for BBs and has the distiction a reputation for a three million dollor selling prices a few years back..
for the hemi convert four speeds export one anyhow...

plus they are known generally as the fastest muscle mopars among the public at large. (sure us mopar nuts know about the SS and wing cars the general public either don't know about them or have long since forgotten...
..another plus for the CUDA is the '70-71 had such a wide range of options including the hi-impact colors the billboard decals, pistol grips a convertable version and the six engine options - so they really stand out famously as outrageous automobiles even at the height of the muscle car wars of '70 - '71.

just my two cents...
or maybe it's a quarter... 

[Mike DC]

It's also relevant that the E-body styling/decals/gills/etc have all actually aged pretty well. 


Screaming Chickens have not. 

   

[Brock Samson]

  i dunno about that - the '70-'71 T/A are super nice cars... 

[Ghoste]

And their following is growing again.

[Mike DC]

Yeah, but the Screaming Chicken had its heyday much too late, on much too many (and slower) common cars. 

There's a large chunk of the population that likes '66-72-ish muscle cars, but still wants nothing to do with the Burt era.  Chrome bumpers & triple carbs have the potential to be classy/cool to most people.  But the Firechicken is still "a Hasselhoff/Reynolds joint" in too many minds.  Too many mulletheads have kept driving raggedy primered examples of those things for too long.

 

[Ghoste]

   True enough.

[68charger70cuda]

gee, i dont know...

[jeryst]

I mean the clones are't very desirable in the big picture.  A '68 Dart with a 440 is basically just worth the price of the '68 Dart + the price of the 440. 

In my opinion, that's what ANY clone is worth.

I just dont understand how someone can put a $20k motor in a $20k car, and think its worth $90k. I mean, really. A 318 car with a 440 in it, is just a non-numbers matching 318 car. Period.

[69_500]

Personally no idea why the cuda is so popular. I prefer the body lines of the Challenger 5 to 1 over the 'Cuda. But that is just my personal choice. The 'cuda to me has always been the cheaper version of the Challenger. If you wanted a nice looking E body you ordered a Challenger. If you were broke but still wanted an E body back in 70-71 you bought a 'Cuda.




Then again I wasn't alive in 70-71 so what does my opinion mean? NOTHING>

[Back N Black]

I mean the clones are't very desirable in the big picture.  A '68 Dart with a 440 is basically just worth the price of the '68 Dart + the price of the 440. 

In my opinion, that's what ANY clone is worth.

I just dont understand how someone can put a $20k motor in a $20k car, and think its worth $90k. I mean, really. A 318 car with a 440 in it, is just a non-numbers matching 318 car. Period.

Clones do have their place on the market. I, mean looks like a R/T, Feels like a R/T, drives like a R/T and the only thing that separates it is a P in the vin instead of a S. If people want to pay an extra 20 G's for a Vin plate?  The only numbers you should worry about is torque and horsepower numbers.

[69_500]

I mean the clones are't very desirable in the big picture.  A '68 Dart with a 440 is basically just worth the price of the '68 Dart + the price of the 440. 

In my opinion, that's what ANY clone is worth.

I just dont understand how someone can put a $20k motor in a $20k car, and think its worth $90k. I mean, really. A 318 car with a 440 in it, is just a non-numbers matching 318 car. Period.

Clones do have their place on the market. I, mean looks like a R/T, Feels like a R/T, drives like a R/T and the only thing that separates it is a P in the vin instead of a S. If people want to pay an extra 20 G's for a Vin plate?  The only numbers you should worry about is torque and horsepower numbers.

I disagree with this quote. If it drives like an R/T fine, but its still not an R/T. If it looks like a Daytona doesn't mean its a Daytona. If it looks and drives like a HEMI Cuda convertible, doesn't mean it is one. There is a reason that people do pay more money for cars with certain digits in the VIN. BECAUSE IT WAS BUILT THAT WAY ORIGINALLY, NOT 40 YEARS LATER.

[Dave22443]

I drive a clone, because I like the R/T but couldn't even find one for sale at the time.  In fact, what I found was the ONLY Charger I could find, at any cost!  Thankfully it was a 383 HP car w/air so I had all the big-block goodies, including a 26" radiator.

Do I think my car is worth as much as a real R/T?  No.  It's not.  But the 440 is worth more than the 383 was  and I love the car just the way it is.   Why???

Because you can drive the crap out of a clone!   

[Ghoste]

Yep, but it's amazing how many clone builders think their creations are only worth a little less than the real thing.  They turn up at all the auctions and it's astounding how much money some of those guys truly feel the car should bring.  There are a lot of bitter clone builders loading their cars back on the trailer to take home when the classic car auctions end.

As a side note, one of the reasons that 71 Cudas sold so poorly (compared to some of their contemporaries) was that they just were not viewed as all that attractive in 1971.  Not everyone agrees, and I'm one who likes them, but the car mags of the day pretty much all slayed the "controversial" styling.  Chrysler came late to the ponycar party but they also piled it on a little too thick in the gimmick department.  Those are the things we like about them today but in 1971...

[Mike DC]

Very true.


These days, anything that was factory-done on musclecars is automatically bestowed at least some amount of additional appreciation.  Not true when they were new.  Gaudy was just gaudy.  I think this is partly why so many of these designs are loved in 2008 after being derided in the early 1970s.


I've certainly thought this about the '71 fender gills. 

If those had never been factory-done, can you imagine the blood-curdling screams of pain from other Cuda enthusiasts if somebody did that to a Cuda project for the first time now?

 

[68charger383]

As a side note, one of the reasons that 71 Cudas sold so poorly (compared to some of their contemporaries) was that they just were not viewed as all that attractive in 1971.  Not everyone agrees, and I'm one who likes them, but the car mags of the day pretty much all slayed the "controversial" styling.  Chrysler came late to the ponycar party but they also piled it on a little too thick in the gimmick department.  Those are the things we like about them today but in 1971...

Funny that the side fender accents are back in trend today...look at Buick and Cadillac who have them on their current models. It's also a big mod add on for the new cars like Chargers and ricers.

I had a 71 cuda back in the very early 80s and I always had people stopping by my house or stopping by at a gas station to try and buy the car. Today that would not be that odd, but back then it was just weird because 71 cudas were rare, but they were around and priced similarly to other cars on the market ($2K-$4K). People probably saw the car back then and had love at first sight. I could never understand it, but now that I look back and think about it, they were beautifully designed cars and I think the gills really added to the already great design for the car.

I remember running into a 71 red with black interior/top 340 4 spd car. It was driven by a really hot young blonde girl. The girl was actually selling it for $3,500.00, but that seemed kind of high for a 340 car, and I was talking to her about the car as a means to hook up with her. Guess looking back I should have forgotten my moves on her and bought the car!

[Back N Black]

I mean the clones are't very desirable in the big picture.  A '68 Dart with a 440 is basically just worth the price of the '68 Dart + the price of the 440. 

In my opinion, that's what ANY clone is worth.

I just dont understand how someone can put a $20k motor in a $20k car, and think its worth $90k. I mean, really. A 318 car with a 440 in it, is just a non-numbers matching 318 car. Period.

Clones do have their place on the market. I, mean looks like a R/T, Feels like a R/T, drives like a R/T and the only thing that separates it is a P in the vin instead of a S. If people want to pay an extra 20 G's for a Vin plate?  The only numbers you should worry about is torque and horsepower numbers.

I disagree with this quote. If it drives like an R/T fine, but its still not an R/T. If it looks like a Daytona doesn't mean its a Daytona. If it looks and drives like a HEMI Cuda convertible, doesn't mean it is one. There is a reason that people do pay more money for cars with certain digits in the VIN. BECAUSE IT WAS BUILT THAT WAY ORIGINALLY, NOT 40 YEARS LATER.

All I'm saying that there is a small percentage of people that are all about the numbers and thats fine. But if someone wants to put a 440 in their charger and tail stripe there is nothing wrong with that either, for a fraction of the cost. I just would not pay the extra cash because it a numbers matching or whatever, again thats just me. 

[jeryst]

I mean the clones are't very desirable in the big picture.  A '68 Dart with a 440 is basically just worth the price of the '68 Dart + the price of the 440. 

In my opinion, that's what ANY clone is worth.

I just dont understand how someone can put a $20k motor in a $20k car, and think its worth $90k. I mean, really. A 318 car with a 440 in it, is just a non-numbers matching 318 car. Period.

Clones do have their place on the market. I, mean looks like a R/T, Feels like a R/T, drives like a R/T and the only thing that separates it is a P in the vin instead of a S. If people want to pay an extra 20 G's for a Vin plate?  The only numbers you should worry about is torque and horsepower numbers.

I disagree with this quote. If it drives like an R/T fine, but its still not an R/T. If it looks like a Daytona doesn't mean its a Daytona. If it looks and drives like a HEMI Cuda convertible, doesn't mean it is one. There is a reason that people do pay more money for cars with certain digits in the VIN. BECAUSE IT WAS BUILT THAT WAY ORIGINALLY, NOT 40 YEARS LATER.

All I'm saying that there is a small percentage of people that are all about the numbers and thats fine. But if someone wants to put a 440 in their charger and tail stripe there is nothing wrong with that either, for a fraction of the cost. I just would not pay the extra cash because it a numbers matching or whatever, again thats just me. 

I agree that clones have their place. I just think its rediculous that people think they are worth more than the sum of the parts. There were a finite amount of rare cars produced, but there is no limit on how many clones can be produced. Originality, authenticity, desireability, and rarity make a car valuable, not just looking like something else. My son is a really great artist, and I'm sure he could whip up a convincing copy of the Mona Lisa in our garage, but if the real one is worth $50 million, does that mean his copy is worth $25 million? If anyone thinks that, PM me with your order - lol.

[Mike DC]

It ain't the fault of the sellers that there are buyers willing to overpay for stuff.



In the case of overpriced clones, you could make the argument that they're not really as overpriced as they sound. 

The factory didn't build any original "clones" last I checked.  So if you're shopping for a clone, there's 100% chance that it had to be hand-built by someone after it left the factory.  That means the extra cost over the raw parts bill is justifed to add to the total bill for the car, because there's a 100% chance that any other clone you find for sale also incurred those same costs to construct.  (If you can't possibly get something built or get an existing one located & purchased for less than X dollars, then it's worth X dollars.  Whether it "should be" worth that much or not.)

It costs money for all the "little stuff" that adds up so fast in these clone buildups.  And time to find that stuff.  See if a resto shop will gather up the pieces (both new and used) that it costs to do a resto without adding that to the bill.  Hell, just the shipping alone . . .

And then there's the specialized knowledge to get the whole thing done correctly.  VERY specialized when you consider that they not only have to know how to make the clone match the factory, but they also have to be aware enough about the current situation of Mopar restorations (it changes a little every year) to get all the restoration variables handled right.

(What, knowledge isn't worth thousands of dollars?  Then why don't you send your car to that Chevy resto shop that would paint it fine but also give it a black engine bay and put pentastar emblems on both fenders?  Why does a joint like Roger Gibson's cost and wait-list so much more than somewhere else just as capable of spraying paint & hog-ringing seatcovers on?  Why wouldn't YOU take responsibility for overseeing someone else's factory-correct clone buildup for free?)



Given all that, I would argue that paying $50K (or occasionally even as much as $60K) for a "$20K+$20K" factory cloned Hemi car is just paying what it would really cost to get that car built to turn-key status by someone else.  The "$20K+$20K" restomod Hemi cruiser with the slot mags is really being sold at a loss for $40K.

[RT DAVE]

I dunno.  They sure are ugly.  Here's a 440 4 speed I snapped a picture of this weekend.  Nice car!  Not mine.

[hotrod98]

The two cars shown below are both Cuda clones. My wife had to have the gills in her '73 to match my '71. We also own a 70 Gran Coupe and a real '71 Torred bench seat Cuda.
We own more b-bodies than e-bodies, but we always end up driving the cudas since they get much better gas mileage than our big block b-bodies so it always looks like we prefer the cudas over the other cars. We love them all equally.
As soon as the Daytona clone and Superbird clone are finished, I think the cudas are going to get some rest from the shows and cruises for a while.

[RT DAVE]

c'mon!  Gas mileage!   I think the real reason is that they are just better looking! 

[hotrod98]

I think that 25 mpg is a good reason to choose the cudas. The big block cars get 10 mpg on a good day.
I love fuel injected small blocks more now than ever. 

[Mike DC]

E-bodies aren't much different from B-bodies when it comes to mileage.  The same EFI that makes the E-body more practical would have done it for the B-body too.

[RT DAVE]

I think that 25 mpg is a good reason to choose the cudas. The big block cars get 10 mpg on a good day.
I love fuel injected small blocks more now than ever. 

I didn't know you had fuel injection and that the difference was 150% better fuel mileage or I wouldn't have made that comment.  I thought we were comparing stock vehicles.  My mistake. 

[hotrod98]

The cudas were already non-matching numbers small block cars and were good candidates for the 5.9 EFI / od setup.
My b-bodies are real big block cars and I wouldn't change that.
The exception is the 70 Superbird clone that we'll start building in 2009. I already have a 5.7 / 5 speed auto setup for it. The donor car that I have for it is a small block '70 Satellite.
I don't expect to get the fuel mileage from the 5.7 hemi setup that I've gotten from the 5.9 setup, but you never know.
I know the horsepower will be much greater though and that's what I'm looking forward to. I may end up driving the bird clone more than the daytona clone.