Rolling Thunder's 6.1L Hemi Build *UPDATE!*

[Rolling_Thunder]

So - I disassembled my 6.1L Hemi that is going into my 68 Charger... it was advertised with a "spun bearing" so I got it for $2000. I disassembled it tonight and was flat out horrified...


7 out of 8 connecting rod bearings were spun!!!

I have never seen an engine have that... NEVER... and I've taken a old big block 426 Hemi to 8900rpm... Creepy... guess someone disabled the rev-limiter and had a little too much fun.

Oh well - will give you guys an update when i know how much my machine shop bill will be.

[gers1968rt]

Wow, never heard of that, before... need some pics.

[Charger-Bodie]

Maybe it was in one of the Chargers from the Castrol commercial. 

[KMPX2]

If he was going to mess up his HEMI atleast he did it big time

[moparstuart]

Maybe it was in one of the Chargers from the Castrol commercial. 

that was funny   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Maybe it was in one of the Chargers from the Castrol commercial. 

that was funny   

[68rt]

  that was funny

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - I got the crank out today and it had 5 spun main bearings as well - - -     Lucky Me!   

[bzabodyn]

Well - I got the crank out today and it had 5 spun main bearings as well - - -     Lucky Me!   

OUCH! Sorry to hear about the bad luck - just never know what you're getting until you crack 'em open...

BZ

[firefighter3931]

That sounds like oil starvation 

Hopefully the crank isn't cracked....send it off to be magged 



Ron

[Ghoste]

Agreed and it wouldn't hurt to do a little investigation into just how the oil starvation happened.

[Rolling_Thunder]

That sounds like oil starvation 

Hopefully the crank isn't cracked....send it off to be magged 
Ron

I'm just going to buy a new one...     $350.00 from my local Dodge Dealership....      not a bad price for a Forged crank IMO     

[autodynamics]

So - I disassembled my 6.1L Hemi that is going into my 68 Charger... it was advertised with a "spun bearing" so I got it for $2000. I disassembled it tonight and was flat out horrified...


7 out of 8 connecting rod bearings were spun!!!

I have never seen an engine have that... NEVER... and I've taken a old big block 426 Hemi to 8900rpm... Creepy... guess someone disabled the rev-limiter and had a little too much fun.

Oh well - will give you guys an update when i know how much my machine shop bill will be.

where did you get the  motor from??? i have a buddy there that warrantied his motor for a spun bearing wonder if thats the same motor.... was is from burge motors? do you have the serial number on it??? if so i have some info on that motor...

[Rolling_Thunder]

It was in fact a warrany replacement and mopar did not want this bad boy back...      seems to be very likely this is the same motor...       care to share the info you have ?

[FastbackJon]

 

[autodynamics]

was is a 73 challenger only like 500 miles on it.  was dyno'd and tuner leaned out motor and spun the bearings .... the guy lives in LA. never rev"d it over 4000k. 

[autodynamics]

i could send u a pic of it when it was installed

[Rolling_Thunder]

was is a 73 challenger only like 500 miles on it.  was dyno'd and tuner leaned out motor and spun the bearings .... the guy lives in LA. never rev"d it over 4000k. 

same engine!  I was told it was out of a Challenger and sent to a tuner and it came back with a rod knock...      had all 5 mains spun and all 8 con rod bearings spun...        never over 4000rpm...     hard to believe...      it looks like it was rich as there was quite a bit of carbon build up...        maybe leaned out then richened it and spun bearings sometime in there....           

Still - not a bad deal for $2000.  I scored a NEW crank from a dealership for $350.00 + S&H...     Bearings are like $150.00 ish so...    I'll have her back together and for well under $3000.00 - - - 

[chargerman68]

still i good deal

[autodynamics]

well the owner never rev'd it for fear it was too new... the tuners wrecked the motor and pulled a ton of timing out of it to mask the knock.... other than the bottom end the motor is practically new....nice score... hope u have more luck than he did.... he now has a new tuner new motor and runs great.... some lesson on the behalf of the tuner....

[Rolling_Thunder]

hmmmm -  sounds like the Tuner didn't know shit.     The bottom end will be replaced and installed in my 68...   

[PocketThunder]

hmmmm -  sounds like the Tuner didn't know shit.     The bottom end will be replaced and installed in my 68...   

Do you have a thread on this build or is this going to be the thread on it?   

[moparstuart]

hmmmm -  sounds like the Tuner didn't know shit.     The bottom end will be replaced and installed in my 68...   

Do you have a thread on this build or is this going to be the thread on it?   

yes we need pictures of the car and the HEMI

[autodynamics]

damn,,,,whats the odds in know that motor from across the usa. ...... wow hope all works well with it.. the guy who owned the motor is real gassed that the motor was hurt that bad... i will try posting the tuners info so no one else gets hurt.... btw did u get thise hid's for that car ? pete

[Rolling_Thunder]

Small world isnt it ?          All i got from that car was the Engine and the harness....      The Harness itself is $995.00 of you buy it new...     Good thing I forked over the extra $50 for it. 

Got a quote on the new Crank - final price is $380.00 shipped to me with the tone ring.  I have a guy who wants to pay me $150 for my old crank so...     not a bad deal...   

Please post the Tuner's info when you get it...   


PocketThunder...     been posting little updates here and there...   I'll probably start a thread when the car comes back form paint and body and document the entire "building process"...    The engine build will be included in there too - most of you guys probably havent seen a disassembled 6.1L go together so it should be fun...   

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well guys - for anyone who follows my threads just thought ya'll would like an update -     

I have totally disassembled the 6.1L and decided just to purchase a new crankshaft. Nothing got hot in the engine it seems...    just spun bearings...     strange.

Had a long talk with Troy Bray at WestOaks Dodge about why Mopar sucks...      I had rounded off 3 of my connecting rod bolts while trying to remove them...       and...       Apparently I can not purchase connecting rod bolts from Mopar - they do not sell them unless you purchase a complete rod/piston assembly.

Anyway - so the Crank will be here Monday...    Bearings are all backordered - so I will source these from Clevite. Connecting Rod bolts will come from ARP. 

I Also have my new oil pan from WeldTech on the way so this bad boy will clear my stock K-member...   



I missed a SRT8 PCM on E-bay...    was outbid by $2.50 - again! - Will try to run this engine with a stock PCM for simplicity's sake...   I can always buy a cable operated throttle body and run a stand-alone PCM later.


The only thing remaining I need to BOLT this thing into my Charger is the motor mount adapter plates as I have the oil pan and bellhousing.     I'm not in a huge rush as I still need to build the engine and wait for the car to come back from Paint and Body.

It is nice to see a plan come together...    I am finally building the car I've wanted for years...      what a great feeling.      

[Silver R/T]

sounds like you got ripped off, sorry to hear that. Maybe someone else thinks its good deal but I wouldnt buy it for 2K. Thats what you get when things are made in Mexico, some poor mexican got paid day worth of food to assemble your "hemi" Apparently he didn't do very good job on it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

sounds like you got ripped off, sorry to hear that. Maybe someone else thinks its good deal but I wouldnt buy it for 2K. Thats what you get when things are made in Mexico, some poor mexican got paid day worth of food to assemble your "hemi" Apparently he didn't do very good job on it.

Well - actually it was some guy in the US who cant swap and oil pan...       Think I figured it out - oil pan pick up was not installed correctly - O-ring was not installed...    so the oil pump pulled air at high RPM while it was being tuned...         anyway - I dont consider it a rip off...      I knew it had a bottom end issue...       new crate sells for approx $7,000.00+S&H         

Crate engine    $2000.00
Crankshaft       $  385.00
Bearings          $  200.00
Con Rod Bolts  $    32.00

Total Cost       $2,617.00

So I don't consider it a rip off...    because $7,000.00 > $2,617.00    I am getting this Engine for 37.4% of the original price...      I dont think anything is a rip off if you get it for less than half price.

I do admit it is also a couple phone calls and a delay for parts but overall it is no big deal...      like i said - my charger is off at paint and body anyway

[chargerman68]

let me know how it goes....

are you going to the all american car show tomorrow?

[Rolling_Thunder]

let me know how it goes....

are you going to the all american car show tomorrow?

Nope - cant make it down there this time -

[chargerman68]

let me know how it goes....

are you going to the all american car show tomorrow?

ok will catch up with u at fall fling

Nope - cant make it down there this time -

[Silver R/T]

sounds like you got ripped off, sorry to hear that. Maybe someone else thinks its good deal but I wouldnt buy it for 2K. Thats what you get when things are made in Mexico, some poor mexican got paid day worth of food to assemble your "hemi" Apparently he didn't do very good job on it.

Well - actually it was some guy in the US who cant swap and oil pan...       Think I figured it out - oil pan pick up was not installed correctly - O-ring was not installed...    so the oil pump pulled air at high RPM while it was being tuned...         anyway - I dont consider it a rip off...      I knew it had a bottom end issue...       new crate sells for approx $7,000.00+S&H         

Crate engine    $2000.00
Crankshaft       $  385.00
Bearings          $  200.00
Con Rod Bolts  $    32.00

Total Cost       $2,617.00

So I don't consider it a rip off...    because $7,000.00 > $2,617.00    I am getting this Engine for 37.4% of the original price...      I dont think anything is a rip off if you get it for less than half price.

I do admit it is also a couple phone calls and a delay for parts but overall it is no big deal...      like i said - my charger is off at paint and body anyway

correct me if Im wrong but I was informed "hemis" are assembled im mexico and some are from canada

[Rolling_Thunder]

yep - made in Mexico...    however i have not heard of any other crate 6.1L's having issues...      It was probably something done when the engine was installed into the challenger.      These are the same engines that are in numerous production cars and all come from the same assembly plants...       who knows.   

[Rolling_Thunder]

So Update - I placed an order with Arrington Engines for a set of main bearings and connecting rod bearings - including the impossible to get from mopar connecting rod bolts.

Check out the 6.1L Hemi thrust bearing....     



and con rod bolts

[Rolling_Thunder]

So - after going through hoops with Arrington Engines my bearings and bolts are schedualed to arrive Monday...    yippie!   

So - today I had the shop all to myself and got quite a bit done - none on the Charger though....      Got my 440 painted the correct orange, got my transmission painted all pretty as well...      got my bellhousing painted, and even managed to disassemble and restore my Hurst Shifter....      Screw paying them $250 to restore it...   took me about an hour as no parts were broken...    just cleaned it and re-greased it all nice....   


Tomarrow's plan is to modify the K-member to clear the 6.1L AC compressor and order my motor mounts from TTI.

The 440 will also be mated up to my 833 and set aside until I get my Road Runner's engine bay prepped for paint...       

[Rolling_Thunder]

So - my bearings and connecting rod bolts arrived yesterday...    I might get the Hemi back together this weekend if my girlfriend does not take too much of my time...                 If I do manage to reassemble this pig this weekend I'll have a photo-assembly guide.     

[Rolling_Thunder]

E-bay strikes again!   for all you haters of Evil-Bay I gotta say I love it...     I just scored a NEW flywheel for my hemi...    Mopar P5153592 - steel flywheel for 392, 6.1, and 5.7 Hemis...    List price is around $380.00...     Mine shipped to my door is $235.00  - - - - -     Gotta love it...     

Oh and today I dropped my new crank into my Hemi block...   figuring out the torque settings is irritating...      28Nm + 90* turn...      WTF - why can't Mopar just be normal and say "Look man...   turn it until it hits 115lbs-ft  - - -  I mean jeeezus...       connecting rod bolts are worse...    20Nm or something + 60* turn....      god Mopar is on my hate list at the moment....   

I'll drop the pistons and rods in tomarrow with any luck...    and dont worry guys - I will go back through this thread and add pics soon.   

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well...     Progress has been delayed...     after 2 months of waiting for my bearings to show up Arrington Motors (the guys who pride themselves on being new hemi experts) sent me small block chevy connecting rod bearings...     so I get to ship their shit back and wait even longer for the correct bearings...        WTF ever happened to people being reliable and actually doing their job ?   

[chargerman68]

what trans are you going to run.....do u need the flywheel for a sb727 or one of the trans

[Rolling_Thunder]

nope - for any automatic you just need a flexplate and torque converter - I need the flywheel because i'm running a TKO600 5-speed manual trans.

[chargerman68]

oh ok good cause i just buttoned up the motor.....

[PocketThunder]

I'm living vicariously thru you guys.....          

[Rolling_Thunder]

I'm living vicariously thru you guys.....          

Says the guy with the C500....            

[Rolling_Thunder]

*UPDATE*   Well...    my bearings still are not here....       but on the brighter side my flywheel made it here safe and sound...       

more news ?   ummmm    my Charger is getting its color coats tomarrow at the painters...    should be able to pick it up next week sometime.   and yes i know you guys want pics...    all in due time fellas.

[skip68]

    Question,   Is the 6.1 a 392 ?  ?  ?   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

   Question,   Is the 6.1 a 392 ?  ?  ?   

Not exactly....
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/engineconversion.asp

[Rolling_Thunder]

370ci...     but shouls make close to 480hp when im done   

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well my bearings finally came in today...    Arrington motors did make it up to me by sending me a T-shirt, letter of apology, and considerably more expensive bearings....     Clevite bearings I ordered = 72.00...     Mopar bearings i got = 316.00   So they took care of me pretty well...    I would do business with them again.

Assembled the short block tonight, dropped in the pistons, crank, cam, lifters, sensors on the block and got the heads bolted on in 2 hours...   whew...    that was fun!      Yes i took pics....    will be added when the engine is complete.

Tomarrow night i'll be installing my oil pan, valvetrain, timing gear, covers, and all that jazz....    I should have this bad boy together by the weekend.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well The engine is completely assembled (finally) - Yes I know about the carbon on the pistons...       didn't feel like it was a huge deal...

I'm sure everyone agrees doing the shortblock is the most boring part so we'll start here with the crank, pistons, and rods in the engine...     only new thing on the 6.1L Hemi is to remember to install the oil squirters in the bottom of the cam tunnel.



Lifter packets have been installed...     awesome design..   they alone with most other parts use encapsulated hardware (ie. the screws/bolts remain in the plastic retainers...    causing them not to get lost)



Camshaft has been slid in



Camshaft retaining and oiling plate has been installed...    cool thing...   use a drill bit to restrain the white plastic tensioner for the timing chain.



Install the heads as an assembly...   they weigh 41lbs a piece complete...    dont forget the head gaskets...   they are coolio multi-layered type



Install timing chain after getting engine on TDC and aligning the cam...    the sprockets need to be synced correctly using the blue identifying links on the chain...   remove your trust drill bit on the tensioner as well....     then install your front mounted oil pump.



Now install your valve covers and coil packs....   again both use encapsulated hardware and get torqued to 70 in-lbs - valve covers also use O-ring style material for seals as does the timing chain cover, oil pan, and water pumps.



Install timing chain cover and water pump at this time....   nothing out of the ordinary really



Now install your water tubes and your super duper intake manifold assembly...    vertical mounting holes make it a breeze and actually easy...     



Now install your oil pan gasket, pickup tube, and your Weldtec oil pan...    pick up didnt fit all that great but was easily modified....     oil pan does not have a deep sump...      good for ground clearance I hopp.




IMPRESSIONS OF THE 6.1L HEMI: I have to say this is the most painless engine I have ever assembled...   it went together smoothly and without any issues...     the only annoying factor came to the torque settings for the mains, rod, and head bolts....    as mopar has switched to a "35 ft-lb then 60* turn" style instruction...    all together not that bad....     just a slight annoyance. The engine is very similar to most big block mopars however is just very much simplified...    I was nervous at first but quickly found out there is nothing to it...      All together a great engine.

[NYCMille]

looks knarly man... 

[Blown70]

NICE WORK, keep the updates comming in.  Cannot wait to see that in the engine bay. 

[68charger383]

Nice play by play, read like a car craft article: