Selling my car, International buyer/possible scammer, I need advice!

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

I posted my car on ebay and was contacted for a buy it now price from what seems to be a legit international buyer however he has 0 feedback. He always emails when he says he will email and always calls on the phone when he says he will call. He says he wants to purchase the car for the agreed price however the last 2 times he has asked for sensitive information to be sent to him before he wires the money, he wants a copy of my driver license, copy of title, and all my bank information for the wire transfer. Now everything but the bank info throws up red flags for me and its a pretty large sum of money so I am really worried. I don't want to blow off a real buyer but I also don't want to get scammed. I would appreciate anyones thoughts on this. I have sold a few other cars international and they have never asked for anything other than bank info and those transactions went through without a hitch.

[BigBlockSam]

that has all kinds of red flags to me.   

[SFRT]

scammer !!!!!

do not send the info.

[royt440]

He may want to ensure that he is not dealing with a scammer.  We've had people being cheated on both sides of the pond.

Document requests could be fulfilled by making copies and marking copy in big, bold letters across the face.  Any info you don't feel comfortable sharing, just cut it out or cover with a black marker.

Open a separate account, with the minimum deposit, to be used for his transfer of the money.  Once the bank clears/verifies a good deposit you could transfer that to your real account and close the temporary one.

Good luck, hope it all works out.

[89MOPAR]

  I don't see why he would need the Drivers License.
MAybe provide a copy of the title [ with COPY written on it as suggested]

  I have had money wired to an account before - after verifying with my bank that ; only providing the buyer with the account # would allow them to do nothing but deposit funds, and no way to pull anything out.
 
As previuosly suggested, maybe he is trying to protect himself as well....

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Yeah I'm not calling him a scammer and if he is just protecting himself that is fine as I said it is a pretty good amount of money that would be changing hands. Also I have a secondary account used for money transfers.

[BROCK]

I'll admit up front that I've only skimmed through this thread - but hold on:  I do have a bit of experience here.  My tale might be opposite of yours, if only because I test drove & inspected a vehicle
for a friend in Australia.  He was, like you, trying to be sure of what he was getting into.  He had his transport worked out prior to the purchase - just needed a friend to check things out.  My advice
is to cut through this potential buyers crap & explain to him in explicitely how you will proceed.  If he is wary of you being a scammer, send him a pic od the car with today's newspaper featured. 
Have him find a friend in the area that can inspect the car for him.  All in all though - this guy is a scammer - just flush him out!!!!!!!

[G-man]

Hi

I went through with buying my 1st 1968 CHarger thats going to replace the 70 challenger... Pictures will come soon 

I live in australia, car was at minneapolis.

I required copy of drivers license/bill of sale/title.

All 3 were given to me. The reason somebody needs a copy of drivers license/bill of sale is to ensure the person selling is the person on the bill of sale. The reason they need a copy of the title is to ensure the bill of sale vin numbers etc are identical to that of the title, otherwise, bill of sale can say 1 thing but the car selling could be something else. So its security reasons for the buyer. Bank details so that he can wire the money accross as I got the bank details also to be able to do that.

Once he gets a copy of the bill of sale, he needs to sign it and send it back to you, then you sign it also and send it back to him (the copy). Once the money has arrived into your acount, then you will require to send the ORIGINAL bill of sale and ORIGINAL (not the copy u gave him) Title to the shipping yard which will probbably be in LA. He will need to give you the details as to what address you must send the copy of the title/bill of sale to.

Once that has been done you will need to place an A4 sheet of paper on the inside of the windscreen (i assume thats windshield in US terms... front screen) with his full name/shipping company thats doing it for him (this you will require to get of him) and also the address of the shipping yard its going to (same adress as where the original bill of sale and original title got mailed to). PhedEX or Regestered Mail is what you will probbably use to mail the title and bill of sale to.


Hope that helps you out.

[suntech]

He just wants to ensure that he doesnt deal with a scammer. Would you send money to somebody you have never met, without some kind of proof that you are who you are, and that the deal is right??
I had 0 feedback when i bought my 68 Charger on Ebay. 1-1/2 year ago. What i did, was to call the guy, and we talked guite a bit, and i had a buddy of mine living just a couple of hours away, so he went up to see the car, and i sendt the money!! Easy as that!!!
I dont really se what is "sensitive" information!!!
A drivers lisence is a proof that you are you!!! You show it in the bar, to prove that you are old enaugh to buy beer!!!!
A copy of the title is simply the proof to show that the car is yours/ you have the car!!!
Bank information is simply where to send the cash!!!! He can not take anything out................... He can put money in!!!!

Some of you guys has a tendency of thinking that everything outside the US is like a 3rd world, where everybody are thiefs and crooks!!
Well............that is not the case!!!!


For the record....... I have now 1 feedback on e-bay.............seller of the Charger!!!
We here in Europe dont buy thousands of 3 dollar items on e-bay, simply because the shipping makes it to expansive!!!
Lighten up buddy!!! Nothing to worry about!!! I mean.......... you will not send the car before it is payed for..........right???

[bordin34]

I sold my 74 on Ebay to a guy in Croatia. We E-mailed back and forth and he wanted a copy of the title, which I faxed him right away. The guy who bought mine had good feedback and had bought 4 cars in 2 months. The shipper took a long time to pick it up because it didn't fit on his trailer, but the first time the shipper showed up I got $2000 in cash. But this is different for you because your guy doesn't have a friend over here. What country is the buyer from?

[mikepmcs]

For every one or two legit deals that go through, there are 100 scammers on top of them.

I wouldn't do it personally but i'm a skeptic anyway.

Isn't there a legit company that can be the mediator so to speak
or can you get information from him like address, name, phone number, maybe have him take pictures of himself standing next to his house or whatever showing the address.  Have him write a note on a piece of paper that says hi Dodge Charger Needed and snap a picture.  I know this all sounds weird but I think if you explain to the buyer your hesitation due to numerous scams out there , buyer should be more than willing to cooperate any way possible to make you feel comfortable.  If the buyer gets mad or doesn't respond back, then it was most likely a scam.
What country does the buyer live in.  Run his name on google and see if you can dig anything up on the net. Call the authorities/police in the buyers area and see if there is such a person, etc...
By the way i'm not saying that these scammers are from other countries either.  A lot of scammers are based right here in the states or they are US scammers in other countries scamming other US citizens.

I was going to buy a car a while back( a few years ago) supposedly from Arizona
Seller answered questions but never would actually give me pictures of what I wanted to see, just general pics, finally I said open the passenger door and take a picture of the striker only.
Never heard from seller again and the ad went away shortly after that.

I called LVPD when I saw silver Porsche 930 turbo, for a very reasonable price, on ebay to check the legitimacy of the listing and although they wouldn't give much info, they did tell me to stay away from that car and not purchase it.

When I bought my 55 Chevy in New Jersey a while back, I called the police in the town, the paint/bodyshop(name was printed on the back of the car) Police asked me the plate number I said what it was, they asked me the seller's name, I told them and they said that is the right name on the registration.  I called Sano's Custom Paint and talked to the owner Dave Sano and he said he remembered painting the car, etc.... 
I then told the seller I wouldn't give them a dime in deposit money(listing said $2000 in 48 hours) and said I was hitting the buy it now and I'll give them a bank check when I get the car the following saturday(4 days later).  After a few more calls and the seller now asking me questions, blam it was done and I had my 55.

I don't see any reason not to be forthright and tell exactly what's on your mind if you are skeptical, if the seller/ buyer is legit it should not bother them as they should have the same fears as you. 

good luck

v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

oh and read this thread too. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,13534.0.html

I don't think the member actually believed I was trying to help him either, i think in one post he actually said maybe you are working with the scammer or something like that.

v/r
Mike

[suntech]

What i mean, is that a SELLER has NOTHING to worry about, as long as the car stays till it is payed for. It is the BUYER that is taking ALL the risks!!
IMO nobody should buy anyhing of a certain value, if you dont have any chance of checking that it is a fairlyly safe deal, meaning phone# and adress, copy of passport or drivers licence, and a copy of title etc.
If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is!!!!

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

I'm not calling anyone a scammer. I actually wanted to get opinions from overseas people here that I know have bought a car in the US. It has caught me off guard because on all the previous international sales of cars no one has asked for that information. I consider a drivers license somewhat sensitive information with all the ID theft going on call me crazy or just paranoid.

[mikepmcs]

Jeff,
You are neither crazy or paranoid. I realize it's the info, you are being asked to hand out, that is the issue that could cause a life altering future if it lands in the wrong hands.

Just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.  Just be careful and do some research as I suggested above and you should put your mind at ease in short order.

Sorry, I'm not overseas, but I felt the need to post anyway. 

v/r
Mike

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Hi Jeff,

from which country is the potential buyer?
How is his e-mail address ending?
See if it matches.
I am from germany and the german ending is .de

I bought several Mopars in the US. I never had a problem. I use to call the guys up (instead of e-mailing), talk to them, try to notice if the are real Moparguys. If I have a good feeling about the sellers honesty and feel he knows what he has I usually continue without any further proof of paperwork.

Regards

Carsten

[six-tee-nine]

I don't want to bash you guys, but as Suntech stated, we Europeans also get screwed from time to time.
I have made some great deals on ebay, but also got screwed for over $ 200 last month.

So let's not start calling eachother scammers....
But In these days of professional scamming a name and adress just are not enough anymore to be safe. With a licence or social security number the buyer at least has something in his hands when de deal gets croocked.
in the end , he will have to put money in your account before you ever let the car go.

[472 R/T SE]

I don't want to bash you guys, but as Suntech stated, we Europeans also get screwed from time to time.
I have made some great deals on ebay, but also got screwed for over $ 200 last month.

So let's not start calling eachother scammers....
But In these days of professional scamming a name and adress just are not enough anymore to be safe. With a licence or social security number the buyer at least has something in his hands when de deal gets croocked.
in the end , he will have to put money in your account before you ever let the car go.

Good luck getting a social security number.  I'll be damned if I'm ever gonna give mine out to some total stranger.  There's safer ways...

I don't know about you folks over seas but social security numbers' over here should be top secret.

[69charger2002]

i think you're crazy and paranoid, but what do i know..   

[Big Lebowski]

  Try this, have him send a deposit $500-$5000 whatever, Then You'll feel better about giving him copies of whatever info he thinks that he needs to make the deal.

[G-man]

  Try this, have him send a deposit $500-$5000 whatever, Then You'll feel better about giving him copies of whatever info he thinks that he needs to make the deal.

that wont work

If i sent someone 5000 dollars from australia to get his license.. he could turn around and say "No I dont know you, I never had a car for sale" and I lose my money, no license, no identification, no bill of sale to prove there was a car for sale no title to prove he owns a car like that. Im the 1  screwed not the seller.

As a seller u need to be prepared to give that out or dont offer the car to international buyers.

Re-read my statement earlier... !

[suntech]

Try this, have him send a deposit $500-$5000 whatever, Then You'll feel better about giving him copies of whatever info he thinks that he needs to make the deal.

Turn this around, and ask yourself: If i have a car for sale, and i tell you to send money, before i will send you ANY proof of me beeing me, and that i actually have the car i claimb, would YOU send any money? I know sure as hell that i would´nt !!!!!

My best adwise is to cut down on coffein and throw away that Conspiration Theory video, and email the guy a copy of drivers license, title, and full name and adress phone# etc.
And.............................if you want money, send him the Bankdetails, and just sit and wait for the money to  arrive, before you let the car go!!

[jeryst]

Scammers exist on both sides of the issue, so I would never send drivers license info to anyone. Having said that, most of the risk is for the buyer, so a buyer cant be too careful.

If he wants to prove that you have the car, provide a fresh photo with yourself and the title/BOS in the picture. Have him describe how he wants you to hold the title/BOS (left hand, right hand, on windshield, etc. Hold a sign with his name on it. That will prove that you have the car.

Send him a copy, or a photographed copy of the title/BOS, with "copy" written across it, along with photos of all of the numbers on the car. That will prove that the car itself is legitimate.

Have him contact your local police, and have them verify that you and the car exist.

Have him send a sales contract. Take it to a notary when you sign it, and have it notarized along with their letter that they have personally identified you, and that you signed the sales contract in front of them.

If that's not enough for him, find another buyer.

To protect yourself, as mentioned before, open a new bank account that can only have money electronically deposited, and that only you can withdraw from in person. Bank checks and money orders , even postal ones, can be forged, so if you accept one, make sure you give it at least two weeks to clear.

[Big Lebowski]

  Try this, have him send a deposit $500-$5000 whatever, Then You'll feel better about giving him copies of whatever info he thinks that he needs to make the deal.

that wont work

If i sent someone 5000 dollars from australia to get his license.. he could turn around and say "No I dont know you, I never had a car for sale" and I lose my money, no license, no identification, no bill of sale to prove there was a car for sale no title to prove he owns a car like that. Im the 1  screwed not the seller.

As a seller u need to be prepared to give that out or dont offer the car to international buyers.

Re-read my statement earlier... !

      I still would never give out my private info to a stranger, I would hope that the buyer would HIRE a REAL car inspector to establish who owns what & only then would I consider releasing that info IF the buyer was willing to send a deposit. So IF the buyers car inspector informs the buyer that the seller is legit, then I would ask for the deposit, then send copies of everything he wanted.

[suntech]

I guess many international sales will go south with this fear, specially when the fear is from the seller. Just dont get it!! Why list a car for sale, if you are not prepared to prove who you are, and that the car is yours
Personally i dont think a copy of a drivers licence, with whatever "sensitive" info blacked out, and a copy of the title of the car you want to buy, is the least a seller must be able to come up with, if he wants to sell a car !!!!
If not.................IMO the seller is limited to sign in the driveway, and local newspaper.  Nobody in their right mind would send 20-50 whatever thousand dollars to a complete stranger, without any proof that they are not in for a major buttf**k!!
I am perfectly aware of the risk of ID theft, but with a buyer that comes up with a legit name, adress and phone #, that everybody that want, can check, i think it is paranoid to refuse to give out the requested info. 

I know that there are different "traditions" of how to do things in US.
Back in 01 i crewed on a Formula 1 powerboat team in US, and i needed the APBA or Prop Tour application (can´t remember wich one) with a notarized signature!!!! Why, i have no idea, but i guess liability/insurance reasons.

[CB]

maybe it was better you never got into the intl. selling issue.
It is always a risci business and being afraid of getting screwed you should've said that your car won't go to a person outside the USA.
Saves you the headaches and besides that, the intl. buyer can find other deals.
Some on the board are firm: no selling to someone outside the country.


CB

[charger_mike75]

If the person has the money to buy the car and ship it overseas, maybe they need to just spend a few bucks more for a plane ticket and inspect and or buy in person. Then no one will be scammed.   

[Corellian Corvette]

I think most people have posted sane advice.

He could just as easily be testing you, as you are testing him. There is probably fear on both sides, and while his requests may send a flag, not giving out the info could send a flag the other way.

I do agree the buyer is taking the bigger risk. Ask me how I know.

However, if you are worried about IDENTITY THEFT, that's what I think is worrying you. In the case of your D/L, the important information is the acutal number which I would black out. But again, tell him you're blacking it out and why you are. Be honest about your concerns. Certainly your SSN# should never be shared. Having your address and VIN number isn't going to lead to any Identity Theft.

Also - I think the case of opening up a NEW bank account specifically for this transaction may be a VERY smart thing to do. Don't tie it to any of your credit cards or other accounts. That's a very safe way of not letting your finances get exposed.

And as others have said be honest and transparent and trust your gut. It sounds like your tendency is to trust this guy, and I do agree he's taking the bigger risk.

Good luck!

[royt440]

Separate account is a definite!!  Minimum deposit to open and then transfer the big bucks to your personal, PRIVATE, account.

My wife is customer service rep at a local bank.  Anyone with your account number can take money out as well as make a deposit.  Whenever you give your account number to a store/vendor, you are trusting that party to abide by the implied contract that they will only draft the amount you have agreed upon.  Some banks may have different rules but don't count on it.

Roy

[suntech]

My wife is customer service rep at a local bank.  Anyone with your account number can take money out as well as make a deposit.

Well, that is the only bank i have heard of that has that "service"
She must mean that someone ( like a known relative to the account holder) shows up in person in the bank, with a signed (and notarized in US) letter from the account holder, that allows what he /she wants to do.
I have been sending and receiving money from pretty much all over the world, and the ONLY thing you can do with a bank account# , assuming you are not the account holder, is to put money IN to the account.

[moparchris]

Just my two cents, but I have also sold a stateside mopar overseas and what is being asked is in this instance is also what I did.  I provided a COPY of the title, a Copy of my drivers license and of course the routing information for the wire transfer of funds.  The buyer needs your Name address etc... from your license, just black out your actual i.d. number on your license.  This shouldn't be your s.s.n. anyways.  If it is you have bigger worries than this.  he also needs the titile info to get his import paperwork started so he can do the deal.  You also need a copy of his license with all of his info also and make sure that the mailing address that you are sending the title to matches his license.  Also TALK to this guy and try to get a feel for him.  You have the car and it doesn't go anywhere until you'ver been paid.  I know exactly how you feel and it can get nerve racking, but this is probably a legit deal.

[69charger2002]

simple if the guy has $20k to blow on a charger, he can spend an extra $1000 and fly his ass over here to look at it, and buy it.. basically as said earlier
trav

[CB]

My wife is customer service rep at a local bank.  Anyone with your account number can take money out as well as make a deposit.

Well, that is the only bank i have heard of that has that "service"
She must mean that someone ( like a known relative to the account holder) shows up in person in the bank, with a signed (and notarized in US) letter from the account holder, that allows what he /she wants to do.
I have been sending and receiving money from pretty much all over the world, and the ONLY thing you can do with a bank account# , assuming you are not the account holder, is to put money IN to the account.

That's what my bank said also. Over the years, I bought 8 cars in the US, everytime with bank wire transfer. Never had troubles. CB

[suntech]

the mailing address that you are sending the title to

The original title goes together with the car in most cases, as the shipping company uses that and the bill of sale, as customs papers, meaning the seller is not giving away ANYTHING but his name, adress and bank details, before the car is payed for.
As for spending another 1000 bucks++ for a plane ticket, to go and check out the car in person, just because the seller won´t give out basic information............. well, i would consither that a waste of money, and taking time off work, rental car, etc it would add up to maybe 3 K, and that is a lot of money to spend/ waste, just because of stupid stuff like that.
I see threads here where members feel ripped off, because a vendor charged them 20 bucks more than another one for shipping, so nobody here wants to WASTE money
Rolf

[Ghoste]

This is why the whole "buying a car on the 'net" thing just leaves me stone cold.  No offense to our overseas friends because I very much understand your plight but for me, buying or selling a car is just something that needs to be done face to face.  If you can't buy or sell face to face, then you need to use a broker as a go-between.
It's only my opinion but it is what it is.

[suntech]

I understand that people are questioning many things, the way the world is, but i am a strong believer in that if you play with a open hand, and everything is transparent, there is not much to be to afraid about. If there is nothing to hide, no point in hiding it, right!!