Disc Brake Spindles Aquired, Some More Questions

[BlueSS454]

I actually have 2 sets of spindles now, 1 set is off a 77 Aspen, the other is off a 78 Magnum.  I got the Aspen spindles b/c I could not find a late B body in a junkyard until today, so I grabbed them when I spotted that Magnum.
First question is where to mount the calipers, front or rear?  The Charger hard lines dump out rearward of the spindle so using a hose from a 78 Magnum would work in theory since it would be reversed.  I know which rotors, bearings, and seals to get, but I'm a little unsure about the calipers.  The caliper brackets are of the slider type.  Can I use the 78 Magnum calipers or is another one required?  The last thing I see conflicting info on is the upeer control arms.  Can the stock 69 Charger upper arms be retained, or will they need to be replaced with something else?

[471_Magnum]

You're better off with the sliders as parts are more readily available.

There is some debate on the spindles. Both the ones you have are taller than the earlier ones. Recent research suggests the additional height is pretty much harmless.

The "correct" spindle is off a 73-76 A-body or 73-74 E-body.

Mount the caliper to the front.

Read Rich Ehrenberg's article if you haven't already.

[bull]

I don't think the Magnum spindles will work. You could use the caliper adapters off the Magnum if you were using the A-body spidles but IIRC the spindles are wrong. The Aspen spindles will work but they are taller than the stock spindles, and that is the topic of a years-long argument regarding the altering of the front suspension specs.

[BlueSS454]

I'm going to clean and sandblast both sets of spindles today, then compare them side by side and take some measurments.  I'll post results and pictures later tonight when I'm all finished up.  I'm not worried about the spindle being taller, just need to compensate in the alignment specs for that.

[71charger_fan]

The Magnum spindles and the Volare spindles should be the same parts. All 73-up B, F, J, M, and R bodies used the same spindle. Mount the calipers whichever way best fits your application. Just remember to keep the bleeders up. I mounted mine to the rear in my 71 (using spindles from a 77 Volare) and used the following hose:

Allparts H99069
Bendix 88611
Wagner F99069
Raybestos BH36828

The subject of the spindle controversy was covered in detail in BlueSS454's other thread. After all the discussion, he decided to go with the newer spindle. All the references to the extra 3/8" and links to Ehrenberg's swap have already been made.

Blue,

Use your existing upper control arm and lower ball joint. Everything bolts up. I think all the slider calipers were the same. Only the adapter changed depending on disk diameter.

[BlueSS454]

Awesome, exactly what I needed to know.  The casting numbers on both sets of spindles I have are the same.  Now I can get all my parts next week and rebuild the K Frame so it's ready to go back in the car in one piece after I get the engine bay and underneath painted.  I checked the bendix number for the slider calipers, and they are infact the same thing from like 75-up for a ton of different cars, including the Aspen & Magnum I took the spindles from.  I'll get some pics up once I reassemble the K frame.  Thanks again.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

As 71Charger pointed out, the spindles are the same but also, the Aspen should have the smaller 11 inch rotors and caliper adapters which you will need if you have 14 inch wheels, while the Magnum should have the big 12 inch rotors and tall caliper adapters which you can use with 15 inch wheels (recommended). The calipers are the same for both cars (note: the sets are the same, but rights and lefts are different than each other).

You can use the used calipers and hoses if you’re really bucks down and the used ones appear to be in excellent shape, but I would highly recommend getting rebuilt calipers since they only cost about $20.00 or less, each, and new hoses (about $25.00 each).

Definitely rear mount the calipers. That way you avoid any sway bar interference, you don’t need the funky long brake hoses with the bolt bracket in the middle, and it moves the weight of the calipers and adapters rearward. There is just no good reason to front mount them. Make sure you put the calipers on whichever side that causes the bleeder to be at the top, and inside.

If you buy rebuilt calipers and/or new hoses they will have new copper washers for the banjo bolts (that mount the hose to the caliper), otherwise make sure you get new washers as the old ones can seep. --- If you do buy rebuilt calipers, don’t be tempted to spend a little extra for “metal pistons”. This is NOT an upgrade.

As for pads, I only use the Bendix Fleet MetLoc pads, as they are the best available. They aren’t cheap (about $50.00), but well worth it, with amazing stopping power. This isn’t just my opinion; they have been tested numerous times by Police and independent testing agencies as superior (do a Goggle search if your interested in tests).

VERY IMPORTANT: If your car was equipped with drum brakes and your not changing out the master cylinder, pry the seat out of the reservoir that feeds the fronts, and remove the residual pressure valve (or verify that one doesn’t exist). Also check your fluid frequently for the first 1000 miles or so, as the drum masters don’t have the fluid capacity necessary for “fill and forget” fluid maintenance. After the pads wear in the fluid level stabilizes.

Other tips are:

Use a silicone based disk brake grease to lube all the caliper sliding areas (available in small packets), and make sure the caliper slide nice and smooth with no rough spots.

Use some brake quite on the back of the pads during assembly.

Make sure you stake the outside brake pad to the caliper (instructions will be included with the pads).

If you are changing any bushings, use the Moog “problem solver” offset bushings in the upper control arms as you will be able to achieve more positive caster when aligning the car as opposed to stock or poly (trash) bushings, but don’t exceed about 4 to 4-1/2 degrees if you race the car, or otherwise run at speeds over 120-130 MPH, since more caster can cause wheel shimmy at higher speeds.

Make sure you adjust the wheel bearings for zero free play (just zero, not “to tight” zero) because even a couple thousands of play can cause a spongy pedal, and imprecise steering.

Lastly, check everything for proper clearance, no binding or contact on the hoses, and ease of movement, not only when you get it all installed, but after the first 100 miles or so.

Nothing changes the drivability of these heavy cars more than excellent brakes. I’m sure you will find it the most worthwhile change you will ever make. You will also realize that the “tall spindle = Armageddon” crowd are - at best , wrong, - at worst , liars. You will notice that all the detractors have NEVER done it! After all, I defy anyone to find someone who has done it that is unhappy with it, or has any complaints or failures, and I’ve been doing them since 73.  

[BlueSS454]

The car is completly disassembled and up on a rotisserie now, no nut or bolt is left in the car.   I trashed all the old brake parts I removed from the car, and never bothered to take the rotors/calipers fromt he Aspen or the Magnum because they were junk as far as I was concerned.   I have a spreadsheet made up with part numbers and the like of everything I need along with cost and where to get them.   The 12 inch rotors are going on, rims are not a concern since I'll be putting on a set of those repo Vectors.   As far as sway bar clearance goes, I plan on putting on one of those big Hotchkis bars on it, don't want the calipers to be hitting that!   Do you have the Moog part number for the offset UCA Bushings?

[Chryco Psycho]

I phoned to get a part # but came up with nothing , let me know if you find them first

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Moog "Problem Solver" upper control arm bushings #K7103

They run about $30.00 per set, 2 sets needed (1 per side). Most any auto parts store has them, or you can get them at partsamerica.com or other online stores.

If you get them you will notice they have arrows molded into the rubber face. For proper installation to increase caster (looking from the front of the car towards the rear), install the front ones with the arrow pointing out towards the tire, and the rear ones with the arrows pointing in (towards the engine). Ignore the instructions that come in the box because they tell you to install them differently than above for increased camber.

[jaak]

Hey BlueSS454,

would you want tio sell one set of spindles since you got 2 pair.

Thanks Jason.

[PocketThunder]

Read Rich Ehrenberg's article if you haven't already.

So if this is the correct measurement for the desired spindles... what is the measurement of the taller spindles?  I have a set that seems to measure a bit taller than 4-9/16".. 

[71charger_fan]

Bump, as this wheel is being reinvented yet again.

[71charger_fan]

Bump, for the same reason as before.