440 Rebuild HOT STREET!!!

[Charger_Martin]

Hi.

Im new here and would like to know a few things.

Rebuilding my 440 block and want like to know how much this would cost.

I have no idea what parts to get since im kind of new to MOPAR CARS.

All I know is that I want around 500-550 hp.

Please help me out here, Martin

[Blown70]

Welcome to the site.  Do you have a buget?, or right off I would think some of the ALUM. Heads, possibly a stroker crank?

Edlebrock makes a nice head, that IMO is resonable.  You do not need them to make the horse you want just depends on what you want to do/ SPEND

I guess street use or track, weight of the car you are going to use it in.  DETAILS may help.

Tom

[Charger_Martin]

Is going in a charger from 1969.

No track, only street. Is it possible to not stroke my block but instead get the horses from just changing other parts?

Were thinking about spending around max 4000 dollars.

[Musicman]

A really nice smooth running street motor can be built without stoking that will produce 450 HP and 550 TQ, along with lots of vacuum for power accessories.
Of course the sky's the limit on power really, it's simply that the higher you go, the more street comfort you are going to sacrifice. That's where the mild strokers start to shine... they give you that extra power without having to sacrifice your street manners....but it will come at the cost of some extra parts and machining.

Is that $4K for the engine only? What about Headers and Exhaust, etc?
The cost of rebuilding a stock engine is minimal, performance on the other hand cost money... as the man said, "How fast do you want to go".

[Charger_Martin]

I have headers and exhaust. 4000 dollars is only the parts but I guess that it wont work anyway.
Need more cash than that.

Dont really know what to do. Talked to a couple of guys that does this for a living and said that its gonna cost between 7000-10000 dollars for a STOCK REBUILD ( included work and parts)

But if I wanted like 500 hp then it would cost between 15000 - 20000 dollars.

Not cheap here in Europe:(

[Blown70]

   Wow, for those prices you could get yourself a hemi here.  I dont see why you could not get some of the machine work done, are you able to put it together yourself or do you need it assembled too.

Also, no need for a ton of after market parts, you have a complete engine now?

[Musicman]

Dont really know what to do. Talked to a couple of guys that does this for a living and said that its gonna cost between 7000-10000 dollars for a STOCK REBUILD ( included work and parts)

But if I wanted like 500 hp then it would cost between 15000 - 20000 dollars.

$7k -$10K for stock... that's insane!!! I would even consider $700 to $1000 high for a "stock" rebuild, even with new pistons, etc...
You can buy a complete engine rebuild kit from Mancini for as little as $300, or around $700 if you want to get fancy.

[Charger_Martin]

$7k-$10k is for the parts and work but still its no cheap here. Maybe its cheaper to buy a new engine?
Read somewhere that mopar has some problems with making engines now and will not be available for a very long time.

Is this true?

[Blown70]

$7k-$10k is for the parts and work but still its no cheap here. Maybe its cheaper to buy a new engine?
Read somewhere that mopar has some problems with making engines now and will not be available for a very long time.

Is this true?

Go with one of the aftermarket guys.  Raybartonracing.com or the like,   Not sure on shipping cost etc, But as STATED for a stock rebuild without a lot of fancy parts I cannot see spending $7,000 much less $10,000?  OF COURSE I am on this side of the pond......

[SeattleCharger]

order the parts from the USA, you will get a lot for your money,  euro vs. dollar,  spend the money on machine shop for block bore etc. and hire someone to put it together,  for that kind of money you could order a built hemi from USA,   pm Norway Charger on our site, he has done this, the euro will buy a lot from USA companies, you can get everything and have it shipped,

[Charger_Martin]

Where should I buy parts and what?

I really dont understand anything of whats best etc.

Does anyone know what I should get?

If Im going to build a HEMI block, what kind of parts should I get?

Can I use the 440 block again, that I already have or should I buy a new block?

Thinking 426 or 472 hemi with around 550-600 horsepowers.

Please help me out here guys. It might take a year for me to buy all the parts but its worth it.


Let me know, Thanks

[SeattleCharger]

Well, I learned most of what I know about engine building from this site over the years, reading lots of threads in the engine section, asking questions,      I would just do that,  learn about cams, torque vs. horsepower, more high rpm horsepower you want, bigger cam, then you need a higher stall converter and lower rear end gears will help.  If you want lots of torque and low end and still have lots of horsepower, you can do a stroked engine (different crankshaft,)  if you go above 500 horsepower you will prob. want to build up your transmission some and probably the rear end,   you can learn about intakes, carbs.   A dual plane intake is better for the street and lower end response, etc.
hope that helps,  don't know what to say about exact specific parts for you to order, others know a lot more than me,
Nate

[Charger_Martin]

Im just thinking since its probably gonna cost me alot, why not just build a hemi instead.

Buy all the parts withinn 1 year and have it built. Can`t cost that much more here in Europe anyway, instead of doing alot of other things with the existing engine or a new one.

1 example: The 500 wedge bb cost between 8100-9500 dollars in the us, here its 16400 dollars, so all in all it would not be that much different from buying/building a HEMI.

So the question again is: Can I use the 440 ( 69 ) block to build a hemi or do I need a new block for that?

Is there like a list of the parts thats beeing used to build the 426 or the 472 hemi?

[mikepmcs]

Welcome to the site.   You will get the right answer soon enough be patient.
I will direct some guru's your way... although some have already posted.

v/r
Mike

[Charger_Martin]

I found this list. Is this something that could be used?

http://www.forhemisonly.com/426resto.html

[SeattleCharger]

Here's an online store where a lot of people buy parts, if you want to get an idea about the cost of some parts, some info reading also.

    http://www.440source.com/

I can't make much sense of that hemi build, above my knowledge,

[firefighter3931]

Have a look in the Proven engine combo forum....there are lots of nice builds complete with dyno proven results. 

For 4k you won't be building much of an engine, inmo.



Ron

[SeattleCharger]

Well, you can do a decent build if you go for around 450 horsepower that will be a lot more economical than 500-550 horsepower, good bang for the buck ,  a street combo that I kind of wanted to do:   

   the aluminum stealth heads from 440source website, 900 bucks, this lets you have higher compression while running pump gas,
  get an engle K58 or K56 cam, work great in 440's says firefighter, (can I quote you firefighter?)
use an edelbrock RPM performer dual plane intake, and an eddlebrock or similar 750 cfm carb,  buy some mopar performance rods and some decent forged pistons, and go for a zero quench deck lid, (this is determined by the head gaskets and the height the pistons will go up to the heads,   this combo will give you maybe 450 horsepower?  and you won't have to build up transmission and rearend and change a bunch of other stuff like a 550 horsepower engine will need,  lots of tire roasting power with 450 horsepower,   ,  get the block you have bored if necessary, get all the parts, and find someone who will put it together for you,  would be close to 4000 probably, except for the high labor it sounds like you might have to pay for the machine shop over there, 
  or look into a crate engine and take your chances on the quality of the assembly, and have it shipped to you,

[mikepmcs]

As Ron stated..here is that said forum

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?board=30

Now that is some good stuff!

v/r
Mike

[Challenger340]

I'm with Ron here, you aren't gonna get much of an engine for the 4K mark.

Realworld, for 500 H.P. 440 engine, you'll need more budget.

[crash]

go to 440source.com  they are fairly inexpensive, stroker kits are 1,797.00  aluminum heads are 899.00  i priced all the parts for a  wicked stroker motor through them for around 3,600.00   my dollar sign doesn't work on the computer.  but that much money sounds insane for a stock rebuild.

[Charger_Martin]

Would it be better for me to buy a new engine instead? It will cost me alot in shipping and tax also + to have someone to do the work.

Read a post here about the 500 wedge engine? Would that be a good pick since it is probably going to cost m about the same in the end.

[Musicman]

As I said before, you can get a good 450 HP Street Build fairly cheap since you would be using a good portion of your existing components, stock crank, etc... However that extra 50 HP required for a 500 HP street build will cost you a lot more, because now your talking about replacing the entire rotating assembly, and all the necessary support items to go with it.

If you were trying to build a 600HP Street engine that would be one thing, but a 500 HP engine.... Take your $4K and build on what you have, the extra 50 HP will never be missed...

[Charger_Martin]

Found this article somewhere in this forum. Could this be made with my 440? I guess I would need another cam since this one is a custom one.

Or it there another way of doing it?

Proven Horsepower Engine Combinations - 500hp

Mopar 440ci
Since the mid-'60s and the introduction of the RB engine (raised block), Mopar guys have had it pretty good. The venerable 440 has always been a relatively cheap, reliable source of horsepower and torque. Enthusiasts devoted to other brands have to pay extra for things that are stock on the Chrysler big-block, such as an external oil pump and shaft rockers. The skirted block, although heavy, provides a very stable bottom-end platform, and the cavernous crankcase lends itself to the addition of various stroker cranks without much fuss. However, since stroker engines can be expensive, do you really need the extra inches to make 500 street-friendly horsepower and 525 lb-ft of torque? That's the question we put to Mike Johnson at JMS Racing Engines in Monrovia, California. Johnson says, "No problem, with modern cam profiles and cylinder heads, 500 hp and 525 lb-ft should be relatively easy, and it shouldn't cost too much, either."

Johnson suggests the use of Edelbrock Performer RPM cylinder heads. Used in conjunction with stock replacement KB Silvolite hypereutectic pistons, the closed-chamber design of the 84cc heads provides a great quench area to deter detonation and puts the compression ratio at 10.3:1 when the pistons are at zero deck height. The heads can be used right out of the box with a Performer RPM manifold.

Johnson tells us the LY connecting-rod forgings are plentiful, inexpensive, and reliably capable of handling much more than 500 hp when equipped with quality hardware. Pre-'73 440s all have forged cranks that also will handle the load, so we used these essentially stock components.

Lunati ground the cam using some lobes designed specifically for the Chrysler lifter. As most Chrysler guys know, the large 0.904-inch lifters allow for faster ramp rates and higher lift without the penalty of long duration times, and Johnson planned to take advantage of this. He wanted the torque curve to be flat, with peak horsepower coming in below 5,800 rpm, so he chose a solid flat-tappet cam with 239/243 degrees of duration at 0.050 and 0.536/0.547-inch lift. The exhaust flow of the Edelbrock head is good enough that a larger split between intake and exhaust duration isn't necessary at this power level. The cam was ground with a 110-degree lobe separation and an intake centerline of 106 degrees.

On a dyno, this combo made 527 hp and 557 lb-ft. The peak horsepower was achieved at 5,600 rpm, and the peak torque occurred at 4,100 rpm, making over 500 lb-ft from 2,900 rpm all the way to 5,500 rpm. In fact, the average torque throughout the entire pull was 529 lb-ft. Even with all that power, it still pulled 12 in-Hg at an idle, just perfect for the street.

JMS Racing Engines
Monrovia, CA
626/357-2718
jmsracing.com

Parts List
Description   PN   Source   Price
Edelbrock RPM Chrysler heads   60929   Summit Racing   $1,359.00
Edelbrock RPM manifold   7193   Summit Racing   199.88
KB Silvolite pistons   KB237   Summit Racing   313.99
ARP rod bolts   135-6402   Summit Racing   51.88
Lunati cam/lifters   custom   Lunati   169.95
Crane 1.5 rocker arms   64790-1   Summit Racing   349.95
Holley HP 950   80496-1   Summit Racing   679.95

(http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0611_performance_engine_combinations/mopar_performance.html):

[SeattleCharger]

that looks awesome.    I think that when you order a cam, you can order it specifically any grind you want, so the fact that it is a custom cam isn't any different than ordering a cam in a pre-made grind other than you gotta tell em what you want exactly.  pretty sure about this, don't quote me.

[Charger_Martin]

So could this be made with my 440? Like the article says or is it alot of work extra which they do not write?

Or is it that easy to just change the parts and thats it?

[Musicman]

On a dyno, this combo made 527 hp and 557 lb-ft. The peak horsepower was achieved at 5,600 rpm, and the peak torque occurred at 4,100 rpm, making over 500 lb-ft from 2,900 rpm all the way to 5,500 rpm. In fact, the average torque throughout the entire pull was 529 lb-ft. Even with all that power, it still pulled 12 in-Hg at an idle, just perfect for the street.

I ran this build in my PC and produced the following...

Peak Torque was 526 @ 4100
Peak HP was 487 @ 5500
12.5" Vac @ Idle

Average Torque was 493 from 3000 to 5500

This was assuming a good set of headers and a quality exhaust system was in place, as would be on the vehicle.
Assuming a good set of headers and an OPEN exhaust produced 538 TQ and 497 HP.

Of course there are a host of components which are not mentioned in the article that would effect the final numbers. The use of electric fuel pumps and fans for instance would increase the numbers, low tension rings etc, etc,etc.. Still, all-in-all a very nice alternative 

[Charger_Martin]

Well, you can do a decent build if you go for around 450 horsepower that will be a lot more economical than 500-550 horsepower, good bang for the buck ,  a street combo that I kind of wanted to do:   

   the aluminum stealth heads from 440source website, 900 bucks, this lets you have higher compression while running pump gas,
  get an engle K58 or K56 cam, work great in 440's says firefighter, (can I quote you firefighter?)
use an edelbrock RPM performer dual plane intake, and an eddlebrock or similar 750 cfm carb,  buy some mopar performance rods and some decent forged pistons, and go for a zero quench deck lid, (this is determined by the head gaskets and the height the pistons will go up to the heads,   this combo will give you maybe 450 horsepower?  and you won't have to build up transmission and rearend and change a bunch of other stuff like a 550 horsepower engine will need,  lots of tire roasting power with 450 horsepower,   ,  get the block you have bored if necessary, get all the parts, and find someone who will put it together for you,  would be close to 4000 probably, except for the high labor it sounds like you might have to pay for the machine shop over there, 
  or look into a crate engine and take your chances on the quality of the assembly, and have it shipped to you,

So you would perfer the aluminum stealth heads from 440source instead of Edelbrock 84cc (which I have read that alot of guys use) Would that be a better choice?

And the Engle K56 cam instead of comp and those other brands?


450 hp would be more than enough for now I guess. So is the heads + cam all I need to get or should I get pistons,rods ++++ or is that not necessary?

Already have new exhaust,headers,intake,carb so that something I don`t need.

Please help me out here guys. Going to buy/order heads and cam this week.

[SeattleCharger]

well, I am sort of new at all this, but from what I have learned from this site, the engle K58 is probably the best for a 440, K56 is bigger and would have more high rpm horspower, but less responsive low end, not as streetable and would require higher stall converter and lower rearend gears, you are probably better off with the K58,
as for the heads, the thing about the stealth heads is they are cheaper, AND, the spark plugs come out straight just like the original heads, but the eddlebrock heads have slanted spark plugs and make getting in a couple plugs just about impossible without customizing your headers,
  they have about the same specs, 84cc flow, same dimensions, etc., but different price and different spark plug angle, I would go with the stealth for those reasons.
  I would recomend new rods and forged pistons,   the rods will be lighter and stronger, and make it easier for the rotating assembly to speed up in revolutions with the less weight,  mopar performance rods from 440source? not sure,  actually I don't really know for sure the advantage to new pistons other than that they are lighter and stronger,  maybe someone else can chime in and explain this better or recommend the piston/rod thing for you,

[john108]

Hi
I am no expert either but the K-58 has more duration and greater lift then the K-56, Therefore, I think the K-58 is "Bigger"

[SeattleCharger]

Hi
I am no expert either but the K-58 has more duration and greater lift then the K-56, Therefore, I think the K-58 is "Bigger"

oops,  thanks

  anyways, go with the K58,  streetable and produce good power, but you probably shouldn't go bigger than that without higher stall and lower rear gears,

[Musicman]

What years is your existing block, is it the original 69? If so then compression should not be an issue, just freshen up the pistons with some new rings etc, and check the cylinder bores etc.
You say that you already have headers, what size and type are they? 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 Dia. with 35" or 36" runners would be best.
If you want to keep your performance power in the 3000 to 5000 rpm range then I wouldn't get to excited about a big cam. All you need is a good cam with a little snap to it. The Lunati Voodoo 60302 would be a good choice for a mild build in this rpm range, plenty of vacuum at idle, with just enough of a lope to let you know it's there without getting rude. The Lunati 60303 would be your next step up, but you want to move up to a 2800 stall with this one. Personally, I would stick with the 60302... it's slightly better on low end performance.
Heads... Edelbrock or Stealth heads would make a good choice. The Edelbrocks flow slightly better out of the box, but they do cost a bit more. You will be running a mild cam, so the differences here are rather minor in my opinion. Myself I would opt for the cheaper Stealth heads and save the extra cash for a good quality valve job and maybe some 10 degree locks & keepers for piece of mind.
Intake... This would be a street build, so stick with a dual plane design for better low end performance. The Eddy Performer & Performer RPM are both good choices here. The RPM will give you slightly better high end performance, but the Performer's low end boost will get you to the top quicker... you have to decide which is more important to you. You also want to remember that the RPM manifold is a little taller. This is not normally an issue, but it is something to keep in mind.
Carburetor... Everyone has their own particular favorites... an Eddy Thunder Series 800 CFM unit would make a nice street kit, but there are a lot of other "really great alternatives" out there as well.

Bottom line... You need to pay the most attention to your heads and your exhaust. These two pieces will make or break a mild street build. Obviously all of the puzzle pieces must work together for a successful build, but your heads and your exhaust are the foundation in a street build such as this.  There's lots of little things you can do to improve performance too, like pulling that old radiator fan off and placing a good electric puller on the back of the radiator (no pushers)

Of course, you know what they say, opinions are like @$$holes, everybody has one.... This one is mine, I'm sure others will follow.

[Charger_Martin]

It is a original 69 block.  I think I will go for the 440 source stealth  heads, but then its cam,rods and forged pistons to find out.

[Musicman]

Well, if you factor in the cost of the heads & bolts, the Cam & Lifter kit, Intake manifold & Carburetor, new rings etc... your probably looking at $1900 American... add to that the head work etc.      You might have enough left over for rods and pistons if necessary 

[firefighter3931]

Don't forget about Machining costs....quality machinework isn't cheap. 



Ron

[Musicman]

Don't forget about Machining costs....quality machinework isn't cheap. 

Ron

Yup... as Ron has stated here... machining costs will be a major factor if you start getting carried away. All said and done your already looking at over $2000 just for the basics components and supporting odds and ends, like nuts bolts, lubricants, etc... Then there's shipping costs, taxes, etc... it all adds up pretty quick. I wouldn't do any more than I had to if I were in your position. After all, a $4000 budget will disappear into an engine block real quick... it's not a lot to work with. The last thing you want to do is get half way through a poorly planned build and then suddenly realize you can't afford to finish it. Do all your planning up front start to finish, and see where it takes you. Strive to do the best you can utilizing whatever you have.

[G-man]

30 000 or so for 600hp...

I got something even cheaper for you then a Hemi.

440ci - 512ci stroker.

850 Horsepower - $16 000AU dollars.

[Charger_Martin]

So would you guys rather get the Lunati Voodoo 60302 or the K58?

Or would COMP have some good cams instead?

What lifters should I get with the  cam?

And which cam fits the 440source stealth heads best?

I will get the 440source stealth heads, but do I need to get the ported heads? They cost twice as much.

I would only need rocker arms & shafts, head bolts with the heads and nothing else??

Does anyone think that this is a bad choice to make? Rather Edelbrock rpm heads??

If not I will go for these heads but still needs some advice.

[Musicman]

So would you guys rather get the Lunati Voodoo 60302 or the K58?

2 completely different animals, requiring different support components...  The mild Lunati 60302 is a good street cam, the more aggressive Engle K58 is a good Street/Strip cam. As such, different components are required to maximize their potential.

[SeattleCharger]

You want a bad engine, but don't want to spend a fortune.  The K-58 is going to be more of a hot rod cam.  Don't get the heads that cost twice as much, stealth heads good enough.  Every part of the engine you could upgrade ten times up in cost and performance, but what you are getting is bang for your buck, from stock to upgrading some key things significantly enough to get big difference,  just get some mopar performance rods and decent forged pistons.  Do a zero quench build,            As you upgrade more and more, you start paying more and more for slighter increases in power,  the curve goes up, you know?   450 hp will be a blast, don't worry, and will sound like a hot rod, not a race car, but will be a bad machine none the less 
  read through these threads:    You might save the links into a wordpad file for future reference:
   

                  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21349.0.html     (cam thread)

          and this one:

                       http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22562.30.html    440 Engine build with 440 source aluminum heads, all info for quench height , break in, etc. 


                      http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=34087.new;topicseen#new   new440sourceheads and "cam" info with HP EXHAUST and CH4B intake
           

                                http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10041.0.html   (cam, Hughes, Engle)

              http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,28602.0.html  440 engine build with alum. Heads/ specs/ qu. Mi. times,


                     http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33451.0.html    440 engine builds and links for about 500 hp with aluminum heads
                 

   

[gordo1968charger]

are you in the uk?if so i know of a good builder,mopar specialist,runs a 9 second gtx,so its safe to say he knows what hes doing,hes doing mine when/if  the cash is available

[Musicman]

Go with the Stealth heads... NO you do not need the ported heads, they cost more and you are trying to conserve your resources remember. Save the money for a good valve job and a set of upgraded locks & keepers.

If you go for a larger cam like the Engle K58 or Lunati 60304, you will see slightly better high end performance with properly matched components, but you will also be looking at the addition of some extra items like a new torque converter as well... which is even more money.

Like we said in the beginning...  Performance costs money... How fast do you want to go?
In your case it's more about bang for the buck, and what you can afford on a limited budget.

[Charger_Martin]

450 hp will be good enough for me.

Not looking for a STRIP/RACECAR but a streetcar that has BALLS. Don`t want a bad engine, since that would cost alot with upgrading brakes,gear,rear etc..


Im thinking about getting a new converter, but the one I have seems to fit good right now.

Then I will get the complete 440source stealth heads + rods & forged pistons.

Just the cam and lifters left.

Summit sells the Lunati Voodoo 60302, should I get that cam? Seems like the k58 is too much for my block?

[SeattleCharger]

I like musicman's idea of the lunati now that I read more and see his reasoning.    You don't really need more high end for the stree that much, a 440 is a torque monster, don't need to rev em up to high rpm's,   saves the money of the torque converter and the other parts he mentioned.

[Musicman]

450 hp will be good enough for me.

Not looking for a STRIP/RACECAR but a streetcar that has BALLS. Don`t want a bad engine, since that would cost alot with upgrading brakes,gear,rear etc..


Im thinking about getting a new converter, but the one I have seems to fit good right now.

Then I will get the complete 440source stealth heads + rods & forged pistons.

Just the cam and lifters left.

Summit sells the Lunati Voodoo 60302, should I get that cam? Seems like the k58 is too much for my block?

This will be a 450 hp street build... with that in mind, do you really feel it's necessary to replace your existing rods and pistons? I don't, not as long as they are in good shape and the cylinder bores check out. The 68 block already had a 10+ compression ratio... A new setup would be nice of course if you had the extra cash flow, but I wouldn't consider it necessary. A good street build will be putting the power out there in the 3000 to 5000 rpm range, so extra strong lightweight high rev components are not absolutely required.
Furthermore, since the engine will be operating within a normal street rpm range, Anti-Pump lifters will not be required, but they are highly desirable. Most Cams like the Lunati and others can be purchased with standard lifters as a kit, reducing the overall cost of buying the components separately. If you want Anti-Pump lifters like the Lunati Micro-Trol lifters they will have to be purchased separately driving the overall cost up about $50 over a kit.
Converters... A mild cam like the 60302 (which is the next step up from a stock Mopar Magnum cam), does not require a stepped up torque converter, but that is not to say that you wouldn't benefit from using one. Again nice to have but not a necessity in this case. If you did decide to go with a new converter at some stage of the game, I would suggest that you contact the manufacture before purchasing one and let them help you decide which stage would be best suited to your engine.

[Musicman]

Forgot to mention... Since you have decided to go with the Stealth heads.... Be sure to order the ROL's head gaskets that 440source sells to go with them... This is a necessity as far as I'm concerned. The larger bore diameter of the ROL gasket is better suited to the Stealth head, and a requirement in some cases.

Side items like the 10 degree locks & keepers, and anti-pump lifters do add a small amount to the cost of the build, and it's true that they may not be a requirement in this instance, but they do go a long way toward peace of mind if you can afford them.

[firefighter3931]

The stealth heads are fine for a 450hp build and with that cam i would be looking at a 3000 stall and 3.55-3.91 gears.

Like Mike says the stock rods and crank are fine....i would be looking to upgrade the pistons though. The factory ratings were often generous in terms of compression....most 10:1 motors were closer to 9:1 in reality.



Ron

[Musicman]

True enough there Ron, and new pistons would be nice... I was simply looking at it from the budget standpoint, figuring the smaller closed chamber of the Stealth heads would take up the slack a bit on the compression, good enough for a pump gas build anyway.

[Charger_Martin]

Cool, so then I should get the mild Lunati 60302 cam with the stealth heads from 440source + pistons but what?

And lifters also but what?


Probably new gasket,head bolts, what else?

Do I need to take the engine out of the car or can it stay while the parts are going in?

The money is not the problem here, but I just don't want to spend a lot of money if its not necessary.


Really appreciate all the help im getting. Thank you so much guys.

[SeattleCharger]

Are you putting in new pistons?    are you getting the engine bored out?   

[Charger_Martin]

Im willing to get what I need so cash is not the problem in a way.

Yes, new pistons. The engine is 30 over already, do I need more?

Steath heads, lunati 60302 is what I should go for? I guess I will after what you all have said.

And then lifters,pistons,gasket kit,maybe valve seats?, and more?

A friend of mine told me that the stealth heads does not come complete?

[Musicman]

Im willing to get what I need so cash is not the problem in a way.

Yes, new pistons. The engine is 30 over already, do I need more?

Steath heads, lunati 60302 is what I should go for? I guess I will after what you all have said.

And then lifters,pistons,gasket kit,maybe valve seats?, and more?

A friend of mine told me that the stealth heads does not come complete?

Your engine is 30 over already... NO you do not need to go bigger.

YES, Stealth heads can be purchased complete... 440source part #200-1053
Head Gaskets are sold individually #112-1004 (2 required), or as part of a complete engine gasket kit #112-1000

Cam can be purchased with stock lifters as a kit from Summit #LUN60302LK
or if you want the better lifters you can purchase the items seperately.
Cam - LUN60302
Micro-Trol Lifters - LUN71977

[Charger_Martin]

That sounds great, anyone agree? Should I go for it? Will the engine be around 400-450 hp?

Heads,gasket kit,cam,lifters.

Is the ROL's head gaskets the same as the normal head gasket that 440source sells?

[SeattleCharger]

That's what I love about this site, well, other things too, but you can get specific knowledgeble answers to your questions.  If these guys are telling you the best way to go on parts,  build plan, giving exact parts numbers, details, etc.,  heck man, consider that a gold mine, go for it 

[Musicman]

Is the ROL's head gaskets the same as the normal head gasket that 440source sells...?

The ROL's gasket is the one that 440source sells for their heads... it's the ROL HG31130HT... as was already stated.

Since you have decided to go with the Stealth heads.... Be sure to order the ROL's head gaskets that 440source sells to go with them... This is a necessity as far as I'm concerned. The larger bore diameter of the ROL gasket is better suited to the Stealth head, and a requirement in some cases.

Side items like the 10 degree locks & keepers, and anti-pump lifters do add a small amount to the cost of the build, and it's true that they may not be a requirement in this instance, but they do go a long way toward peace of mind if you can afford them.

You should really go back through and read some of the posts to make sure that you have all of your ducks in a row before moving forward.
What headers do you have?
What intake are you going to use?
What carburetor, etc,etc,etc?
A little planning up front will save you a lot of headaches and help prevent avoidable issues from arising during your build. In other words, don't start running a race if you don't know where the finish line is.

[Charger_Martin]

This is what its going to be:


440 stealth heads from 440source.


Lunati Voodoo Camshafts (60302)
Camshaft, 3-Bolt, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 262/ 268, Lift .475/ .494, Mopar, Big Block, Each

Is this the cam I should use or could I get the 60303 or would it be too much? Just read something about this cam so wanted to ask. Or will this wake up the engine enough? (I already have a mopar purple cam)

Lunati Micro-Trol Hydraulic Lifters
Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Chrysler/ Dodge/ Plymouth, Set of 16


Also got some other new parts, which I have used 3 weeks so its almost new:


Holley street dominator intake
Holley 750 cfm (3310s) carb
Flowmaster 3" exhaust with aero chambers.
727 automatic transmission with stock converter (around 1800-2500 stall)
Msd digital 6 box with mopar distributor
Gear: 3:54
K&N filter and base


What do you guys think? Will it gain some Horsepowers when the new heads and cam is installed? Around 450 or less?

[SeattleCharger]

I don't know, but the intake and carb and exhaust and headers and the ignition and also the lower rear gears, all of that says to me go with the bigger cam if you are deciding between those two cams,  the only thing may be the stall converter is a bit small, I don't know, if its 2500 that should be fine

[Musicman]

When you started this thread you said you were looking to rebuild a 440 for a 69 Charger. You wanted 500 - 550 hp, but you only had $4000 to spend. You were told by many individuals that your aspirations were higher than your budget, but that we could maybe shoe you into a real nice 450 hp build. It had been assumed that the block was an original 69 440, but now near the end we find out that it has been rebuilt and bored 30 over at some point in the past. Furthermore, we are just now finding out that you already have a Street Dominator intake, Holley 750 carb, Magnum cam, etc...Would have been nice to know this stuff up front, as all of these parts must work together as a whole for a successful build. I also see that the restrictive $4000 budget has flown the coop as well, and money is no longer an issue.

[Charger_Martin]

Didnt really think about the parts that I had. Sorry about that. Would you consider other parts for my 440 instead?

A couple of friends tells me that I should get the edelbrock rpm heads instead of the 440stealth, in case it wont fit???

Should I get another cam or heads?

Sorry for not telling you about the parts and all. Thats how much I know about building a motor:)

[G-man]

Charger martin, 16 000 will get you 850 HP.

around 9000 should get you 550HP

To make it simple for u and less headache to everyone else.


Go to an engine builder, tell them "I have a 440ci, I want more power, 4000 is howmuch money I have, what can you do with that?"

And let them tell you whats achievable with the money. That will save alot of questions and headaches.

Dont worry about the formula, take ur money and ask to get it built, they will tell u whats achievable for that budget, if ur happy, proceed if ur not get more money.

Simple.

[Charger_Martin]

I dont think I will buy a new engine, since I got the engine rebuilt not too long ago..

The only thing that did not match the best was the heads and cam.

So thats the only thing that I need right now.

Will rather wait a few years before I think about a new engine.


Just talked to 2 guys who builds motors and they said that its not always the heads and kam that can be the "problem".
They both told me to get a new intake instead of the holley street dominator that I have and that I should get a new converter with a higher stall.
Since the 440 block is more a higher than a low end engine. They also said that the mopar 906 heads and the "purple" cam should be just fine, so I should think about all this.

[SeattleCharger]

Didnt really think about the parts that I had. Sorry about that. Would you consider other parts for my 440 instead?

A couple of friends tells me that I should get the edelbrock rpm heads instead of the 440stealth, in case it wont fit???

Should I get another cam or heads?

Sorry for not telling you about the parts and all. Thats how much I know about building a motor:)

hmm, re asking the same thing a few times,  stealth heads are an inexpensive copy basically of the eddy rpm heads.  You are on a budget, right?  excellent place to save money in your build, they are basically the same aluminum/design head, except the spark plug comes straight out like stock head instead of at an angle like the eddy's, so you don't have to mess with header clearance with the spark plugs, that can be a pain,  get the stealth heads   
   I would try and go with the slightly bigger cam between the two you are deciding on.  they both cost the same, right?   your intake and carb and exhaust and headers are set up for bigger cam, and you are going for more power and "hot street" and all that.  if you have the 2500 stall, you should be fine.     

   There are lots of threads about the stealth heads if you want to read more about them.   use search engine and scroll through the posts, there are lots of cam threads, maybe read more,
   No worries on being new at this, learning is half the fun