COuld this be how it'll all end?

[Orange_Crush]

The "Grey Goo" problem...something to think about, from Exitmundi.

It was no one less than the Nobel prize winning physicist Richard Feynman who gave rise to the `problem'. In a famous 1959 lecture, Feynman predicted that man will some day be able to make nano machines, devices so tiny that you can't even see them. A nanometer is a billionth of a meter, and a nano machine would be a thousand times smaller than the thickness of a human hair.

Well, mr. Feynman wasn't drunk when he predicted this. Machines ARE getting smaller: just compare the microchips of today with the huge taperecorder-like computers from the fifties. But it can go much smaller still. In principle, Feynman foretold, you can make computers and other gadgets out of single atoms. You only have to `click' them together in the right way, like tiny pieces of construction lego.

And he was right. In 1986, the physicist K. Eric Drexler took up Feynman's ideas, and coined the term nanotechnology: `the technology of creating and working with devices only a few nanometers big', as it is defined. In 1990, the world realised that this was no longer science fiction, as a team of IBM researchers managed to arrange 35 single xenon atoms so that they spelled out the logo of IBM. Rumour has it that another research team responded to this crafty display of atom knitting by doing some intellectual nano graffiti: `Bill Gates sucks', also jotted down in single xenon atoms.   

Ever since then, nanotechnology has undergone a modest revolution. With the coming of the Atomic Force Microscope, which uses a tiny `needle' to explore the surface of materials, scientists have been able to `pick up' single atoms and move them elsewhere. Numerous universities and privately funded institutes engage in nanotech. Nano engineers have at their disposal a toolkit full of crafty gadgets, ranging from nano trains that transport atoms across a nano track, to a nano pen that squirts out atoms instead of ink. Also, there's a growing collection of nano switches, nano wires, nano tubes and - more recently - the first nano `engines': rotor shaped molecules that rotate  under the influence of the right changes in temperature and light.

Well, but we're still alive and kicking. So where's the gray goo? O, wait and see. The end of the world may be nearer than you think.

Nano philosophers foresee that one day (some estimate around 2010) it will be possible to create a nano assembler: a man made molecule, that is `programmed' to create certain things out of raw materials. A nano assembler would for instance pick up plain carbon atoms and rearrange them into the molecular structure of a diamond. Or it would make water out of the atomic parts of plain air. Or a cheese sandwich out of dust. Or water into wine, you name it.

This notion is not as weird as it sounds. Our DNA- and RNA-molecules do it all the time! They pick up the raw materials from our food, and turn them into complex molecules. DNA and RNA are nano assemblers that manufacture whole organisms, with arms and legs, and fingers that can type the word `nanotechnology'.

So, if a nano factory can be programmed to create a cheese sandwich out of atoms, why wouldn't it be able to create new nano factories? This in fact is exactly the way it will be, at least according to nanopioneers like K. Eric Drexler. Let's face it: it's a hell of a job to build a nano machine by hand. It would be much easier to make nano machines that are capable of copying themselves, much in the way DNA-molecules replicate themselves. Nano scientists claim it is even essential for a nano machine to be self-replicating. Since they are so tiny, we would need millions of them to be of any use. It would take a lifetime to make them all by hand. Nano factories are thus by definition Von Neumann machines: devices capable of creating new copies of themselves.

But there's a nasty downside. What will such a self-replicating nano machine do if you carelessly tossed it away? You guessed it: it would go on grabbing all atoms within reach, rearranging them into copies of itself. And the copies would make more copies of themselves. And those copies would make even more copies of the copies of the copies. And so on.

No, you just DON'T want to know what this means. Within only 72 hours after the release of the first molecular nano machine, every single atom on earth would be `used' to create new nano machines. In other words, all plants, animals, humans, cars, buildings and even rocks would have been `eaten up' by a vast, exponentially growing army of invisibly small nano devices.

There you have it: gray goo. Lots of it. Bye-bye world.

[Shakey]

I like Grey Goose with club soda and a slice of orange!   

[moparstuart]

I like Grey Goose with club soda and a slice of orange!   

with some grey poupon ?

[kab69440]

You mean we are capable of making self-replicating nano-machines, yet incapable of fitting them with nano-"OFF" switches?   couBS!gh

[Old Moparz]

What's wrong OC, Mopart.com still off line?   


Smaller is okay until you try to push buttons on a tiny cell phone & keep hitting wrong numbers. 

[Orange_Crush]

What's wrong OC, Mopart.com still off line?   


Smaller is okay until you try to push buttons on a tiny cell phone & keep hitting wrong numbers. 

Just slap-happy.  Been trying to get a good part of our stuff into a POD for a week now and finally got done (we're getting ready to put our house on the market)

[Mike DC]

 
That scary nanotech stuff could also be used for a hell of a lot of other decent purposes. 


Imagine turning those machines loose on a few million cubic yards of landfill waste, and a few days later they've turned it into a few million cubic yards of premium gasoline  .  .  .

[superblu72]

"ANDROMEDA STRAIN"

[PocketThunder]

Isnt Nano Nano something Mork said on Mork and Mindy?   

[moparstuart]

   maybe he couldnt find his IPod

[TruckDriver]

I had some grey goo when I was sick once 15 years ago

[Shakey]

What's wrong OC, Mopart.com still off line?   


Smaller is okay until you try to push buttons on a tiny cell phone & keep hitting wrong numbers. 

Just slap-happy.  Been trying to get a good part of our stuff into a POD for a week now and finally got done (we're getting ready to put our house on the market)

Where are you moving to?

I recall seeing pics of your house in the background when you were loading your Charger, it was very nice - why are you moving?

You know you don't have to answer if you don't want to (divorce, on the lamb, business is booming etc..)

[Chad L. Magee]

Not all microtechnology will have the possibility of causing "grey goo", not everything interfaces with biological active materials.  Case in point:  I used to work on molecular switches (what you would call nanoswitches), but decided to work on another project that I designed.  The molecular switch systems that I researched are relatively inert and would not self replicate even if you wanted it to.  (The worse that could happen would be that someone would digest the material and get sick once the transition metals oxidized inside the body.)  I was after a means to increase the storage capacity of a computer hard drive by a factor of 1000X or so (maybe more, maybe less).  It is a distinct possibility to create a useful molecular data storage device if the right combination of materials are used (but I don't want to put people to sleep with the details).  Another point on how the progression of nanomaterials have increased lately: I know not many of the members here read scientific journal articles on a regular basis, but about two years ago a Texas research group was able to make nanocars and nanotrucks by using C60 (fullerenes) as wheels on an organic framework.  The movement of the molecules was done by placing them on a gold surface and applying thermal energy to allow for free rotation, thus creating movement across the gold atoms.  The nanotrucks were capable of carrying another molecule, while nanocars were not.  Why are they important?  They could be used in a nanomachine factory for making much larger, complex machines that could interact with biological materials like the ones pointed to in the orginal post.  The nanocars and nanotrucks would not interact with DNA as the materials used to create them are relatively inert.....

A side not on all of this:  The head of the MU Chemistry department is quite famous in the scientific field, as he help create the field of supermolecular chemistry (basically how organic molecules build frameworks upon contact with each other).  It would not suprise me if he would recieve a future Nobel prize due to his research work.  This area of chemistry in a way leads into the building of microtechnology as it allows researchers the ability to assymble the "machines" on a molecular scale by the interaction of certain molecular forces, without having to build them by hand.........

[Old Moparz]

What's wrong OC, Mopart.com still off line?   


Smaller is okay until you try to push buttons on a tiny cell phone & keep hitting wrong numbers. 

Just slap-happy.  Been trying to get a good part of our stuff into a POD for a week now and finally got done (we're getting ready to put our house on the market)

Moving sucks, hope it goes well for you.   

So, does that mean you're leaving the area, or just to a different house?

Still plan on going to Carlisle?

You need to hook up with a bunch of us there to go to Nathans Cafe to get some grub.   

[jeryst]

It'll never happen, because they cant create a power source that small.

I can see it now, each nano machine attached to an AA battery. lol

[Orange_Crush]

What's wrong OC, Mopart.com still off line?   


Smaller is okay until you try to push buttons on a tiny cell phone & keep hitting wrong numbers. 

Just slap-happy.  Been trying to get a good part of our stuff into a POD for a week now and finally got done (we're getting ready to put our house on the market)

Moving sucks, hope it goes well for you.   

So, does that mean you're leaving the area, or just to a different house?

Still plan on going to Carlisle?

You need to hook up with a bunch of us there to go to Nathans Cafe to get some grub.   

Its nothing sinister.  There are only three of us, the wife, myself, and our daughter.  We live in a 3,500 square foot 3 story 5 bedroom 3 1/2 bath house.  Its kinda stupid.  We're just looking to downsize to something in the neighborhood of 2000-2500 square feet.   At the same time, we want to get in a little closer to the urban areas and out of the suburbs...we'll be staying in Charlotte though.  That's all.  I appreciate the concern though.

As far as Carlisle goes, I wouldn't miss it.  I'll PM you my cell phone number.  Give me a call and we'll meet up for beer and grub.

[Chad L. Magee]

It'll never happen, because they cant create a power source that small.

I can see it now, each nano machine attached to an AA battery. lol

Actually, that is incorrect as you can potentially use solar power as an energy source, once the correct molecular parts are in place.  That is something that researchers (like me) have been looking into for nanomachines for the past few years.  For my oral comprehensive exam in 2003 (Orginal Research Proposal), I proposed a design for an all inclusive solar powered molecule attached to a micro gold surface (energy storage much like a battery), but until real research work is done on it, it is just an idea......

[Mike DC]

 
Our whole civilization wastes so much power every day it's insane.  (I remember a statistic that in cars & trucks, we're effectively using barely 1% of the power in the gasoline itself.)


I think we really need a modern-day equivalent of the Manhattan Project that's directed at improving electric battery technology.  The whole civilization is pissing power out of its ears everywhere you look, but we waste almost all of it.