eBay sellers cannot leave you negatives no longer... Interesting news...

[Charger Aficionado]

I just gave a guy a neg for trying to sell me a counterfeit ACOG.  When I was about to do it eBay shot me a message that they no longer allow sellers to NEG you!  So I went Right Ahead since this dude tried to FRAUD me/others...     

http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/2398277/
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000571338

Do you think this is unfair to sellers?

[Dave22443]

I noticed this the other day as well when I was leaving positive feedback.

My complaint has always been that as a buyer I have commited to purchase and I am required to submit payment first.  Then, the seller often times holds his feedback for you until after you have left yours for them.  And worse yet, many times they never wind up leaving you feedback at all.

Another change in the feedback area that I noticed is that they no longer count anything over 12 months old.  That instantly changed me from 98% rating to 100% 

To make the feedback completely fair, maybe they should consider implimenting a rule where no feedback counts until both sides comment 

I don't know.  I'm just glad to see them making some improvements

[Charger1973]

I see it from both sides of the fence.  Its great if you only buy but if you sell you get the shaft because there are scamming buyers, non paying bidders, etc.  I gave up selling anything on there when these new rules were announced.  I think its the beginning of the end of ebay.  Dont get me wrong the system has always sucked, but now its worse and very one sided. 

[Dave22443]

It always seemed to me that the buyer was always taking the biggest risk.  I've sent my money, what if I don't get the product?  Use PayPal?  Yeah right.  That only works if the seller has the funds still in their account.  If the account is empty, PayPal is powerless to help you.  I know, because it happened.  My brother purchased an item for $450.00 and the seller never shipped.  PayPal was able to recover $28.32 (all that was in the guys account at the time) and considered the matter closed. 

[69charger2002]

i can see that side of the fence.. but personally i sell much more than i buy on there. and stupid ass buyers that don't pay have cost me so much money on ebay it's sickening. let's say you list a car.. $40.. it doesn't meet reserve so you relist it.. they charge the $40 again, then if it sells this time you pay the last $50.. and they refund the first $40. so you're sitting at $90 bucks.. now if that "buyer" is a deadbeat, which happens more times than not now.. as a seller you get screwed!. you never really could do anything to hold a 0 feedback bidder's feet to the fire.. so what if ebay boots them or they get a strike, they probably don't care or will create a new account.. but now the seller(me) has to relist the car yet AGAIN.. and of course, ebay legally let's you relist only once, no matter what. so now this time around, if you "sell" the car, you have to pay the $40 and $50 all over again. so because of deadbeat bidders, you can spend nearly $200 instead of $100 to try and sell a car. we are the ones who get punished for assholes.. now we can't even leave feedback on top of that! ebay made a bad move this time.. i actually had the scenario happen 4 times on a dart i was trying to sell. i had 4-5 deadbeats in a ROW. i spent nearly $300 trying to sell that car, and ebay probably just laughed at me because i kept having to relist and pay them. ebay's days are VERY numbered for me. the buyer gets all the preferential treatment. 1. no reprimand for not following through.. 2. can't get negative feedback brought against them.. 3. paypal already protects buyers more than sellers.. as a buyer you can make up a claim and probaly get money.. as a seller you have to prove everything to be believed
f ebay
trav

[Dave22443]

Sounds like there is work to do on both sides of the isle.

[bill440rt]

I've been both buying & selling on eBay for quite some time. I wouldn't say I make a living off of it, but it helps to clean out the garage a little & I can't stand these defective retards that show up at garage sales anymore. 

I can say that I've been burned way more as a seller than a buyer, even had a wack-job threaten me & my family once over an item that was damaged by the postal service from mishandling. This new feedback system only adds to more problems for a seller. At least with the old rating, if a deadbeat bidder racked up a certain amount of negatives, they were removed. Now what??
The only solution I can see is leaving a deadbeat bidder a negative feedback comment, although it will show up as a positive.

[Old Moparz]

It'll be nice to see the day when another company can rival ebay & be a true competitor with the same volume. I'll go there no matter what, just like I jumped ship on Time Warner with cable TV when I bought a satellite dish. Ebay has grown into an arrogant & untouchable company, buying up & suing like wildfire.

Last week I sent an email asking why "I had to offer paypal" as a seller in order to list my item. I never had to do this before, & have 100% positive feedback going back several years as a buyer & seller. I saw another auction where a seller had absolutely no feedback with a similarly priced item, & did not have paypal as an option.

So far, I got 2 computer generated responses telling me they got my question & that as a highly valued ebay member, they will handle it since I am so special to them. I just got a third email telling me that they forwarded my question to paypal, but that I should contact paypal for a quicker response. I sent a reply telling them my question had nothing to do with a paypal account & to go back & read it.

Now several more days will go by without an answer, but at least I'll hear from ebay's computer that loves me so it's not a total loss.

[bill440rt]

One other thing about leaving feedback as a seller:

I ALWAYS leave feedback for a buyer, however not until I know they've received the item & it is left for me first. I specify this in my checkout instructions. Sure, they'll send payment, but that is only the first half of the transaction. The transaction is only complete when I know they've gotten the item & I hear from them with feedback. This prevents them not leaving reciprocal feedback for me. Works best for both parties.

[General_01]

One other thing about leaving feedback as a seller:

I ALWAYS leave feedback for a buyer, however not until I know they've received the item & it is left for me first. I specify this in my checkout instructions. Sure, they'll send payment, but that is only the first half of the transaction. The transaction is only complete when I know they've gotten the item & I hear from them with feedback. This prevents them not leaving reciprocal feedback for me. Works best for both parties.

I think this is one of the main reasons for the change. As a buyer, I think if I sent you the money promptly and you received it, I should get a positive rating the minute you get my money.

I am not saying you do this, but some sellers out there get the money, wait for the buyer to leave good feedback, THEN give good feedback back. It was a quid pro quo system that did not give truthful info to other buyers out there. The system was set up on how good your feedback is on both sides. Too many negs and a buyer could be banned, so many buyers cut there losses to keep a good rating, but would just never buy from the seller again. How did this help other buyers?

I just bought a carb on Ebay in early May from a Power Seller. The ad said they had 4 available. I paid with PayPal immediately. I got the carb 3 weeks later. When I called two weeks after the purchase, I got a sob story about how the internet went down there a couple of days ago. How did this affect my 2 week ago purchase? The real story was that they did not have the carb in stock and were waiting on a shipment. So their ad lied about having the carb in stock. They also never contacted me to let me know they really didn't have it in stock.  I left a nuetral because the parts came and were just as advertised, but slow shipping. Before the new system, I would have left a positive because I got the parts and it would have gotten me a positive back. Now I can be truthful for other buyers without worrying about a retaliatory negative. Also, I got the part last week and still have not gotten any feedback from the seller, thus justifying my argument. I left them a nuetral, so they are not going to leave me any feedback because they don't want to give me a positive for paying them the day I bought it and waiting 3 weeks for the item. The place is one day shipping away by ground UPS.

[Dave22443]

 

My sentiments exactly.  When you as a seller withhold feedback until you've recieved it from the buyer first, good intentions or not, it is the same as telling the buyer "You better not leave me negative feedback or else I'll burn you sucker!"  It's intimidating to the buyer, even if its not meant to be.

I commend sellers that tell you up front that feedback will be left AFTER you leave yours.  However, when I see that, I refuse to buy from them.  However, when a seller advertises immediate feedback upon payment, I go out of my way to buy from them.

[2Gunz]

Im not a huge ebay guy.

However the old system never made any sense at all to me.

Ive bought a bunch up stuff and ALWAYS give good reviews even if I wasnt exactly
happy about the whole thing.

Why?  Because I dont have alot of feedback and cant afford to piss of the guy I bought from,
because he is going to review me.

And really why should he review me?
My only obligation is to pay for the item, and he shouldnt ship untill he gets the money.

So what REAL reason other than retaliation for a bad review from me would he have to give me feedback?


Now I can say the packing sucked.
Or hes really slow to ship.... or whatever without fear.


And lets face it the feedback thing is a joke anyway.

Pretty much everybody has a 98-100% feedback score.
So why even have it at all.

Should be a few lines like...........

Quality of Item
Speed
Smoothness of transaction
whatever else



Now that I and others can give real reviews, the REAL great people to deal with are going to shine.

[68chrgrwife]

It always seemed to me that the buyer was always taking the biggest risk.  I've sent my money, what if I don't get the product?  Use PayPal?  Yeah right.  That only works if the seller has the funds still in their account.  If the account is empty, PayPal is powerless to help you.  I know, because it happened.  My brother purchased an item for $450.00 and the seller never shipped.  PayPal was able to recover $28.32 (all that was in the guys account at the time) and considered the matter closed. 

The same happened to us...it was for $117 and e-bay said that they found in favor for us and that it is still on going (2 years later) but has yet been able to come up with a dime.  They were quick to knock our account negative when someone who didn't read the whole ad for a product we were selling asked for their money back...they were supposed to ship the item back as well and never did, but because the dispute was closed we can't add that the item was never returned...so the guy has his money and the item!!!!!

[Charger_Fan]

I don't understand this move by Ebay at all. It seems they are biting the hand that feeds, by doing this. It's the SELLERS that pay them their fees when they sell something, not the buyers. If they piss off enough sellers (which I can't think of many who wouldn't be peeved at this), those sellers are gonna look at other avenues to sell their stuff.
Maybe this is the beginning of the end for eGouge.

[beedees]

Ebay started out as a pretty good thing, but look at it now. Used to sell , but got tired on deadbeat buyers. You "sell" something and Ebay gets their cut. Sure, if you have a nonpaying bidder, Ebay will happily refund the final-value fee (wink,wink)...been waiting for litterally years on several items.. I think the thing to do now is bid like crazy and don't worry about paying for it. Sure, Ebay will eventually boot you off...but who cares?

[Drache]

It always seemed to me that the buyer was always taking the biggest risk.  I've sent my money, what if I don't get the product?  Use PayPal?  Yeah right.  That only works if the seller has the funds still in their account.  If the account is empty, PayPal is powerless to help you.  I know, because it happened.  My brother purchased an item for $450.00 and the seller never shipped.  PayPal was able to recover $28.32 (all that was in the guys account at the time) and considered the matter closed. 

Paypal now has the option of taking the money right out of someone's bank account or credit card (whichever is hooked up to paypal) if something like that happens.

One other thing about leaving feedback as a seller:

I ALWAYS leave feedback for a buyer, however not until I know they've received the item & it is left for me first. I specify this in my checkout instructions. Sure, they'll send payment, but that is only the first half of the transaction. The transaction is only complete when I know they've gotten the item & I hear from them with feedback. This prevents them not leaving reciprocal feedback for me. Works best for both parties.

I wait for the item to be received as well before I leave feedback not because they might leave me bad, but what if they receive the item but complain they didn't and try screwing me over? Then I tell it like it is....

[GreenMachine]

 



You guys that are for this must be thinking that all buyers on Ebay are honest like you. What these pricks do is pay, receive the item, then say they didn't and file a claim. If you give them feedback right away then he has 100% positive and goes on to screw the next guy.

[ramit]

   I never leave feedback for a buyer until they recieve the item and leave me feedback.  There are too many people out there that will claim they never recieved their item even if you have tracking on it.

[General_01]

I hear you about the deadbeat buyers, but as I pointed out, I think Ebay is trying to get rid of the "quid pro quo" system. The seller I bought from is the prime example. I did not leave them a positive, so they are not giving me one. And since they cannot leave me a nuetral or a negative, they are not leaving me any feedback. Very unprofessional and I will not be buying from them again.

If a seller leaves feedback based on fact, then it is alright. By this I mean: If a buyer sent money promptly, received the item, but was not satisfied with something as the packaging, shipping time, etc. If the seller still leaves a positive for the buyer, then it is not extortion. If the seller leaves a bad rating for the buyer because they left a bad review for them, then it is extortion.

[chargerboy69]

I don't understand this move by Ebay at all. It seems they are biting the hand that feeds, by doing this. It's the SELLERS that pay them their fees when they sell something, not the buyers. If they piss off enough sellers (which I can't think of many who wouldn't be peeved at this), those sellers are gonna look at other avenues to sell their stuff.

I agree, people will find other ways to sell their stuff. I heard a news report that E-Bay has said Craigslist is having an effect on their business.

I have been a member of E-Bay for over 10 years and this is one of the stupidest things they have done. I am already having a problem with a buyer not paying, and there is nothing I can do about it.

[beedees]

Be real nice if CL had an easy to use search function.

[rav440]

One other thing about leaving feedback as a seller:

I ALWAYS leave feedback for a buyer, however not until I know they've received the item & it is left for me first. I specify this in my checkout instructions. Sure, they'll send payment, but that is only the first half of the transaction. The transaction is only complete when I know they've gotten the item & I hear from them with feedback. This prevents them not leaving reciprocal feedback for me. Works best for both parties.

I think this is one of the main reasons for the change. As a buyer, I think if I sent you the money promptly and you received it, I should get a positive rating the minute you get my money.

I am not saying you do this, but some sellers out there get the money, wait for the buyer to leave good feedback, THEN give good feedback back. It was a quid pro quo system that did not give truthful info to other buyers out there. The system was set up on how good your feedback is on both sides. Too many negs and a buyer could be banned, so many buyers cut there losses to keep a good rating, but would just never buy from the seller again. How did this help other buyers?

i sell on EBAY also more than i buy . as a buyer when i recive the item it is up to me to give feedback .

we can argue this all day till were blue in the face , but unless you sell & buy on EBAY as opposed to just buying you will not understand this as a seller .

just because you buy an item from me and pay for it dosent mean that i owe you feedback : reason , because that is the way i used to operate on EBAY but i had more buyers not leave me feedback after i left it for them than i can count .
i always leave feedback but not until the buyer leaves it for me and i know they are happy . i do my damnedest to discribe an item and photograph the hell out of it and price it to move . i have 100% positive feedback and never left negitive feedback nor did i want to.

[General_01]

One other thing about leaving feedback as a seller:

I ALWAYS leave feedback for a buyer, however not until I know they've received the item & it is left for me first. I specify this in my checkout instructions. Sure, they'll send payment, but that is only the first half of the transaction. The transaction is only complete when I know they've gotten the item & I hear from them with feedback. This prevents them not leaving reciprocal feedback for me. Works best for both parties.

I think this is one of the main reasons for the change. As a buyer, I think if I sent you the money promptly and you received it, I should get a positive rating the minute you get my money.

I am not saying you do this, but some sellers out there get the money, wait for the buyer to leave good feedback, THEN give good feedback back. It was a quid pro quo system that did not give truthful info to other buyers out there. The system was set up on how good your feedback is on both sides. Too many negs and a buyer could be banned, so many buyers cut there losses to keep a good rating, but would just never buy from the seller again. How did this help other buyers?

i sell on EBAY also more than i buy . as a buyer when i recive the item it is up to me to give feedback .

we can argue this all day till were blue in the face , but unless you sell & buy on EBAY as opposed to just buying you will not understand this as a seller .

just because you buy an item from me and pay for it dosent mean that i owe you feedback : reason , because that is the way i used to operate on EBAY but i had more buyers not leave me feedback after i left it for them than i can count .
i always leave feedback but not until the buyer leaves it for me and i know they are happy . i do my damnedest to discribe an item and photograph the hell out of it and price it to move . i have 100% positive feedback and never left negitive feedback nor did i want to.

What would you have done if someone left you negative feedback? That is what the underlying emphasis is about.

Also, you say that as a seller you do not owe someone who pays in a timely manner feedback. As a buyer, my feedback allows me to bid on items that may have restrictions, ex.; Only buyers with 10 or more feedbacks may bid on an item. You can tell me all you want that because I don't sell, I don't know. I know that some sellers used the threat of negative feedback as a way to get away with less than quality products and service. It is those sellers that you should be upset with for the changes. I am not saying Ebay is solving the problem in the best way, but I am sure they felt they had to do something to try and stop that from happening. Should they have maybe implemented a different system for arbitration before not allowing sellers to leave feedback. Probably. The one thing they really need to try to figure out is how to keep a buyer or seller who is banned, totally banned so they cannot come back under another username. Until they do that, it is going to be hard to stop.

I also hear that in Australia, Ebay is going to an all Paypal system. If it works well there, they will implement it everywhere. This is so they can have a credit card or bank account to get funds from. It is also so they can get money from all the transactions so they can get more money. Not sure how it will go over. I think a lot of the Australians are upset with this. 

[rav440]

What would you have done if someone left you negative feedback? That is what the underlying emphasis is about.

first there is no reason for somebody to give me negitive feedback . if it came to the point that a buyer left me negitive feedback it would have been done out of spite from the buyer so yes i would leave them negitive feedback also .

as i said prior , i do my best to describe an item in worded detail & photos . i dont just have a description of lets say a an " EDELBROCK CH4B intake " some sellers would have a description - " EDELBROCK INTAKE CH4B 440 in used condition " and 1 photo what the hell is that ? 
so now i have to Email the seller and ask a ton of questions asto the condition ect ect .
i try to take the guess work out of it by haveing a full description and tons of photos .

so back to negitive feedback . as i said there is no reason for a buyer to leave me negitive feedback . because i would do my best to remedy the situation before it came to negitive feedback .

as for sellers threating to leave negitive feedback i think it is more the other way with dishonest buyers trying to get something for nothing .

that game i do not and will not play 

Feedback Extortion : READ

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

[Dave22443]

Rav440,

  I have no doubt that you are an honest and trustworthy seller on eBay.  But as we "buyers only" have been accused of having many a bad lot among us, so it is to be said about sellers.  Its a two-way street.

[Silver R/T]

I bought a part from a guy long time ago. He gave me his paypal to which Ive sent money, paypal account was non-existent so I withdrew money back from that email/account back to my account. Guy then said that I never paid him and left me a negative. In this case I didn't deserve negative and guy was new to ebay so he didn't know how to handle situation.

[General_01]

rav440, that's great that you give good, honest descriptions on the stuff you sell. You say that if someone leaves you a negative, it would have been done out of spite. Maybe so. But you seem to have the mentality that if you say you give good service, then that is that. It is the buyer who rates your service, and the buyer cannot do that if they are threatened with a retaliatory feedback. I am also not saying all buyers are great people either. That is why I said Ebay should have come up with a better arbitration system before not allowing sellers to give feedback to buyers. But if I look at buying from you or any other seller, I am better informed if I can look at freely given feedback then at quid pro quo feedback.

I also know that retaliatory feedback is against Ebay rules, but I think you know as well as I that it is an unwritten rule that that is what will happen. You just said you would give it to a buyer if they gave it to you, regardless of circumstances.

[rav440]

rav440, that's great that you give good, honest descriptions on the stuff you sell. You say that if someone leaves you a negative, it would have been done out of spite. Maybe so. But you seem to have the mentality that if you say you give good service, then that is that. It is the buyer who rates your service, and the buyer cannot do that if they are threatened with a retaliatory feedback. I am also not saying all buyers are great people either. That is why I said Ebay should have come up with a better arbitration system before not allowing sellers to give feedback to buyers. But if I look at buying from you or any other seller, I am better informed if I can look at freely given feedback then at quid pro quo feedback.

I also know that retaliatory feedback is against Ebay rules, but I think you know as well as I that it is an unwritten rule that that is what will happen. You just said you would give it to a buyer if they gave it to you, regardless of circumstances.

no and no , i did not say that .please do not put words in my mouth i never said i would leave " retaliatory feedback "  .  what i said was , that i would do everything in my power to keep it from getting to that point . but as i also said I  WILL NOT PLAY GAMES . i dont want negitive feedback anymore than i want to give somebody negitive feedback .

as i said i describe and photograph items more than the average seller to take the guess work out of the deal & i dont hide flaws on an item like some sellers do .  when i package an item it could be dropped from a tall building and survive plus i insure it and get delivery confomation just to cover the bases even more plus i try like hell to get the item shipped with in the same day or the next day .

in other words i want the buyer to be more than happy . no body like bad service or hidden flaws .

but its all regaurdless no because SELLERS cant give negitive feedback .

Posted by: Dave22443

Rav440,

  I have no doubt that you are an honest and trustworthy seller on eBay.  But as we "buyers only" have been accused of having many a bad lot among us, so it is to be said about sellers.  Its a two-way street

i not acciusing any buyers , hell i LUV buyers !!!! if it wernt for buyers how could i sell stuff  but now its not a two way street anymore saddly .  i just hope all of my future buyers are as honest and great as my past buyers . but i have a felling that there are going to be a few that try to threaten negitive feedback to get a freebie . 

[gtx6970]

Do you think this is unfair to sellers?

In a MAJOR way

[Big Lebowski]

  Well at least I'm back to 100% sqeaky clean again.

[superduperbee]

The new rules make non paying bidders an even bigger problem than they were before. The only negative feedback I had in 7 years was from non paying bidders who left it in retaliation for me reporting them to ebay for not paying. Since the new rules,  I'm only a buyer on ebay, finished with selling there. If the all paypal all the time comes to the US like Australia, I will be done buying there as well and just close up my account. We all need to band together and decide on one alternitave auction site to support. We could generate enough traffic there and get by with out ebay. I did my first swap meet in 8 years and it went well.

[milner]

It'll be nice to see the day when another company can rival ebay & be a true competitor with the same volume. I'll go there no matter what, just like I jumped ship on Time Warner with cable TV when I bought a satellite dish. Ebay has grown into an arrogant & untouchable company, buying up & suing like wildfire.

Last week I sent an email asking why "I had to offer paypal" as a seller in order to list my item. I never had to do this before, & have 100% positive feedback going back several years as a buyer & seller. I saw another auction where a seller had absolutely no feedback with a similarly priced item, & did not have paypal as an option.

So far, I got 2 computer generated responses telling me they got my question & that as a highly valued ebay member, they will handle it since I am so special to them. I just got a third email telling me that they forwarded my question to paypal, but that I should contact paypal for a quicker response. I sent a reply telling them my question had nothing to do with a paypal account & to go back & read it.

Now several more days will go by without an answer, but at least I'll hear from ebay's computer that loves me so it's not a total loss.

how hard would it be to build an auction site to rival ebay?