fram oil filter

[metcoll]

is the fram PH8A the proper oil filter for a 440.........thx

[Charger-Bodie]

Yes , BUT Fram filters are crap so dont use it! 

[NHCharger]

Yes , BUT Fram filters are crap so dont use it! 

I read a report comparing different oil filters, not good for Fram.

[firefighter3931]

Use a Napa Gold or Wix oil filter....run away from Fram ! 



Ron

[mally69]

Don't use fram they are bad news..

[mikepmcs]

Use a Napa Gold or Wix oil filter....run away from Fram ! 

Ron

+1

[pettybird]

purolator gold are excellent, as well.

since that's the filter media inside factory Motorcraft filters, and they're at Auto Zone, that's what I run! 

funny...i don't miss that oil starvation knock at startup

[ACUDANUT]

 I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

[Blown70]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Ohh they come apart and clog up certain places oil should be going......

[mikepmcs]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Here's some interesting reading for you

http://www.sadik.net/nissan/howto/oil_filter_study.html

http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/opinions.html

I myself will only use NAPA Gold or WIX.

v/r
Mike

[ACUDANUT]

Okay, Where is the recall then ?

[Ghoste]

Just because there isn't a recall doesn't mean they aren't junk.  How many Lada's were ever recalled?

[John_Kunkel]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Here's how it works, a hack does an eyeball evaluation of Fram filters and proclaims them substandard, posts that on the internet and everybody who ever had a problem that they claim is related to the Fram filter jumps in and the result is predictable.

Of course, the millions of satisfied Fram users are never heard from, only the negatives get passed on.

[1BAD68]

I have to agree, I've been using fram for years and years and never a problem

[tan top]

Just because there isn't a recall doesn't mean they aren't junk.  How many Lada's were ever recalled?

[dads_69]

I've used Fram oil filters for over 25 years, no problems to report either about them. Once again, one guy gets a bad filter and like they say, bad news travels faster then good news.

[Plumcrazy]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Here's how it works, a hack does an eyeball evaluation of Fram filters and proclaims them substandard, posts that on the internet and everybody who ever had a problem that they claim is related to the Fram filter jumps in and the result is predictable.

Of course, the millions of satisfied Fram users are never heard from, only the negatives get passed on.

I have to agree. I've cut open Fram and other brands of filters. Frams are a cheaply built filter compared to other brands.  But, I've removed hundreds if not thousands of Fram filters from perfectly good engines over the years.  Personally I would want a better filter, but Frams seem to be good enough for most applications. 

[Silver R/T]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Here's how it works, a hack does an eyeball evaluation of Fram filters and proclaims them substandard, posts that on the internet and everybody who ever had a problem that they claim is related to the Fram filter jumps in and the result is predictable.

Of course, the millions of satisfied Fram users are never heard from, only the negatives get passed on.

I have to agree. I've cut open Fram and other brands of filters. Frams are a cheaply built filter compared to other brands.  But, I've removed hundreds if not thousands of Fram filters from perfectly good engines over the years.  Personally I would want a better filter, but Frams seem to be good enough for most applications. 

you've said it perfectly, "most applications" but if I run $5000 engine I wouldn't put $5 fram oil filter on it. A few extra bucks spent on good quality filter K&N, etc is well worth it.

[crash]

i've seen fram filters suck shut on race engines before and ruin a race engine, a couple times, they may be ok for that gasaver that you drive but nothing high output and i'd change it very often, me personally, wix.  i've seen cut opens of oil filters before, with wix, k&n, motorcraft, fram, delco, and the wix and k&n's seem to be the better designs.

[Mfr426]

I've run Fram for years on my Acuras and never had an issue. I still like Fram for my daily drivers but I used a NAPA Gold on the 505 ( based on Ron's recommendations).

[firefighter3931]

Frams are a cheaply built filter compared to other brands.  But, I've removed hundreds if not thousands of Fram filters from perfectly good engines over the years.  Personally I would want a better filter, but Frams seem to be good enough for most applications. 

I tend to agree with Paul here...Frams are poorly built but they used to be a very good filter. I suppose the outsourcing deal has hurt quality control 

For a daily driver with limited high RPM use i suppose they would be adequate but on a hot street motor with increased oil pressure (HV oil pump) and some high rpm abuse i don't trust them. 



Ron

[aifilaw]

I've used Fram oil filters for over 25 years, no problems to report either about them. Once again, one guy gets a bad filter and like they say, bad news travels faster then good news.

I have to agree, Before I knew any better I ran fram on everything. Never had a problem. Now I run WIX only, can't find puro here. I just want to have the best, and its clear although its not catastrophically bad, fram is not the best

[dads_69]

I never said Fram was the best. I have used Fram on daily drivers since high school. Starting in '82. Motors for track I used either factory Mopar or Wix. When we owned a new Dodge ram w/a 5.7 and 5.9... Dealer said they will only warranty motor if we used factory filter and not after market brand.
I use factory Ford oil filters for what wife and I drive now, Fram on whatever else I have thats not track driven.
I also run K/N air filters, some people call them engine killers as well, I say whatever to that theory as well.
My point is, I have yet to loose a motor due to oil filter or air filter brands.
Now I only hope I haven't jinxed myself! 

Edit: Most importantly, what brand of motor oil do most of us use? I can read the headline now, if Fram made a motor oil, we'd all hear, Fram oil sucks...
remember the old saying, * Quaker State is the best*. Pennzoil sucks, then so on about others motor oil is the best......

[ACUDANUT]

 I use fram on every Mopar I own. I Never had a problem.  I always was always told, WIX was JUNK. 

[aifilaw]

Edit: Most importantly, what brand of motor oil do most of us use? I can read the headline now, if Fram made a motor oil, we'd all hear, Fram oil sucks...
remember the old saying, * Quaker State is the best*. Pennzoil sucks, then so on about others motor oil is the best......

I've seen the 3rd party and the chemical engineer full test and analysis on motor oils, and that is why I only use Rotella for all my conventional, and I used to use Mobil 1 for all my synthetics until they changed it up, now I use purple. Gotta do the additive on even the rotella though for a standard flat tappet hydraulic cam.

[RD]

fram filters are good for daily drivers, but with higher oil pressures, the frams just dont cut the mustard.  they may work, but when have you bought cheap insurance for your car and thought, you know they may work, but.... hence people using hagerty for their musclecars for that "added" insurance.

i would use a fram if i had to, but not on start up, and only intermittently.  i just like the added insurance of knowing that the filter I am using has a metal filter casing instead of being held together by two flimsy circle shaped cardboard styled retainers.  the casing will, at least, hold the major parts of the filter element inside the casing, whereas rather than having it get stuck in my oil pump if there was any filter failure.

is 2-3 dollars worth the extra insurance?  well, only you can decide that, but i would rather spend an extra $100 in one year on filters than kicking myself in the butt for spending 3K on a new rebuild.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Fram filters - i have used them for years without problems...    but these are on daily drivers...     my Charger usually got K&N filters due to my excessive driving habits.

[Runner]

I have never had or heard of Fram being junk

Here's how it works, a hack does an eyeball evaluation of Fram filters and proclaims them substandard, posts that on the internet and everybody who ever had a problem that they claim is related to the Fram filter jumps in and the result is predictable.

Of course, the millions of satisfied Fram users are never heard from, only the negatives get passed on.

john this is how i formed my opinion of fram filters.  the first was a ph8a filter from back in the mid 80s when i was about 20 years old driving down the road with my dad and the filter split apart with 70 psi right after an oil change and dumped all 5 quarts in a mater  of a couple seconds. the second was in the early 90s when i changed the oil on my wifes daily driver and it had a horrible leak from where the filter top and the case come together. it leaked a about 2 quarts in a couple minutes.      2  faulty filters from fram was enough for me and i switched to wix sence id rather not split another filter.  mabe they are better now, and mabe ive been unlucky but ill be damend if ill put another fram oil filter on anything i own.

[John_Kunkel]

john this is how i formed my opinion of fram filters.  the first was a ph8a filter from back in the mid 80s when i was about 20 years old driving down the road with my dad and the filter split apart with 70 psi right after an oil change and dumped all 5 quarts in a mater of a couple seconds.

Like I said, failures get more notice than successes.

When you can cite an accurate statistic of how many Fram filters have been placed in service versus the number that failed, those failure percentages are what condemnation should be based on; not individual anecdotes.

Hell, I've blown up a couple of Mopar motors, shredded rear ends, etc. Does that mean Mopars are "junk"? If I thought that I wouldn't keep buying them and I wouldn't be here.

[ACUDANUT]

john this is how i formed my opinion of fram filters.  the first was a ph8a filter from back in the mid 80s when i was about 20 years old driving down the road with my dad and the filter split apart with 70 psi right after an oil change and dumped all 5 quarts in a mater  of a couple seconds. the second was in the early 90s when i changed the oil on my wifes daily driver and it had a horrible leak from where the filter top and the case come together. it leaked a about 2 quarts in a couple minutes.      2  faulty filters from fram was enough for me and i switched to wix sence id rather not split another filter.  mabe they are better now, and mabe ive been unlucky but ill be damend if ill put another fram oil filter on anything i own.

SO WHY DIDN'T YOU SUE THEM   BETTER YET, why are they still in business ??

[Runner]

SO WHY DIDN'T YOU SUE THEM   BETTER YET, why are they still in business ??

  are you serious? why didnt i sue them?     first off, it would cost me  alot more to file even in small claims court to recover the 3 dollars for the filter and the 5 bucks for the oil.  the second failure i had the parts store gave me my money back on the filter and replaced the oil, so nothing really to sue for there,  mabe time?.  im really not a sue people type person.  i guess you would sue someone over 8 dollars?   lol   

    why is fram still in business you ask? well id guess they are still in business because they are a profitable company, isnt that how companys stay afloat?    i really doubt the loss of me as an oil filter customer hurt thier bottom line.

  john ,  the only stat i have is 2 failed filters for me, that stat is enough for me not to run them.  i dont thing your analogy of mopars is fair. a fair analogy would be ive used mopar performance engine paint a few times, but ive had a couple cans that wouldnt spray when new and i really didnt care for the way it covers so i now use dupicolor becasue it covers much better and the cans always seem to work.       im guessing you probably dont believe me about my filters. and thats ok  its your choice. but let me ask you this,   lets say you personally had 1 filter blow about and another leak, would you continue to use that brand of filter or would switch to another brand?

[RallyeMike]

After reading the crap talk about Fram, I purchased a PH8A and several other types, cut them apart and checked it out for myself. It doesnt take a genius to see that the Frams are built with inexpensive materials. Probably fine for most every day use, but not on my cars.

[ACUDANUT]

 I would buy about 5 of them myself and do that, BUT I can't even afford one right now. 

[RD]

After reading the crap talk about Fram, I purchased a PH8A and several other types, cut them apart and checked it out for myself. It doesnt take a genius to see that the Frams are built with inexpensive materials. Probably fine for most every day use, but not on my cars.

i have worked for a couple of autoparts stores and have done the same thing to all the filters we sold... hence i came to the same deduction

[John_Kunkel]

After reading the crap talk about Fram, I purchased a PH8A and several other types, cut them apart and checked it out for myself. It doesnt take a genius to see that the Frams are built with inexpensive materials. Probably fine for most every day use, but not on my cars.

My career has been in the aviation field where it has long been common practice to cut filters open at each oil change, remove the filter media and inspect for metal, etc.

Since I have a dedicated filter cutter and some aircraft use the same 3/4"-16 thread as the Mopar/Ford I have been cutting used Frams open for years and regardless of their crumby internal appearance they do the job. The cheap cardboard end cap that gets the bad rap does its job and keeps the element centered even when exposed to hot oil.

Rather than an "eyball" evaluation that most so-called studies perform I'd be more impressed with real world flow studies, etc.

[r73mopar]

i used t know a guy that worked at aplace that made fram filters, and he said they take the left over crap and shove it into a fram can and then seal it up. i used to use fram all the time until he told me this. now i spend the extra money and buy mopar filters for everthing i drive now. i built a 318 for a truck and used a fram , did the break in and lost oil pressure guess what it was the filter. changed it ran about 200 miles did it again. put mopar filter on never had a problem again!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RallyeMike]

My career has been in the aviation field where it has long been common practice to cut filters open at each oil change, remove the filter media and inspect for metal, etc.

Since I have a dedicated filter cutter and some aircraft use the same 3/4"-16 thread as the Mopar/Ford I have been cutting used Frams open for years and regardless of their crumby internal appearance they do the job. The cheap cardboard end cap that gets the bad rap does its job and keeps the element centered even when exposed to hot oil.

Rather than an "eyball" evaluation that most so-called studies perform I'd be more impressed with real world flow studies, etc.

I'll put one on my slant 6 if they are on sale, but not the race car.

I remember that Fram used to have the best tested oil filtration/flow of any brand (1980's controlled test data). Not sure where they stand these days? Flow/filtration is great but...... but ever seen test results on blowout or otherwise catastrophic failure? Probably not, because in general it wouldnt sell filters .

Ever run a Fram at 5000 rpm/120-165 mph for an hour on a stout oil pump with the added restriction of an oil cooler? Me either, and I don't plan on being the crash test dummy. In the absence of real testing for catastrophic failure, my "eyeball evaluation" is the best data I have, and I'd say it's not a bad choice to NOT run "cheap cardboard end cap" Fram in my application. I don't care if Fram traps paticles 1.5% better or whatever. I just want a filter that filter/flows good, is made of quality materials, and has a limited chance of self-destruction.

What's the lovefest on Fram about anyway?, Is your stock tanking? 

[RD]

What's the lovefest on Fram about anyway?, Is your stock tanking? 

you have to admit that was funny   thanks mike, gave me a good laugh

[RallyeMike]

Hopefully we are all laughing together. I actually have used Fram for 25 years (based on those old test results) and still do on some cars. Never had a problem with them for it's worth.

[my73charger]

I have to say I did have an oil pump quit on me once and it had a Fram filter on it at the time.  Don't know if there is any connection though.  I always buy a Wix for my 440.

[Blown70]

Well, to me anyone can run what they want John K., likes his fram he is free to use them,  They will come no where near my cars.  I am just as free to have my formed opinion as Jonny is to his.  My opinion is the one that matters to me so I will go with that.

Tom

[John_Kunkel]

What's the lovefest on Fram about anyway?, Is your stock tanking? 

I was waiting for that one. 

No love affair, I just don't put much store in eyeball evaluations and anecdotal experiences and neither does the scientific community.

[Ghoste]

Then again, there is an awful lot that the scientific community can't agree about even amongst themselves.  For me, the price of a filter versus the price of an engine leaves me perfectly happy to utilize anecdotal evidence and not run Fram filters.  I've used a great deal of anecdotal evidence from this site for advice on a wide range of things.

[Charger74SE]

I never had a problem with a FRAM filter when I had a high pressure oil pump on my 318 engine but I had to go to a PH43 filter to clear the headers. Only problem I did have was with the rubber gasket behind the adapter plate blowing out. I made a gasket out of some high pressure steam gasket paper to fix that.

[John_Kunkel]

Then again, there is an awful lot that the scientific community can't agree about even amongst themselves.  For me, the price of a filter versus the price of an engine leaves me perfectly happy to utilize anecdotal evidence and not run Fram filters.  I've used a great deal of anecdotal evidence from this site for advice on a wide range of things.

Exactly which anecdotal evidence on this subject on this site are you are you basing your choice on?

In this thread, what is the actual count of failures experienced versus satisfied users versus "I heard they're junk"?

[Ghoste]

As far as which anecdotal evidence, unless you've experienced it personally I'd be inclined to say that every single thing you read on the internet is anecdotal so take your pick.  There comes a point where you apply faith, trust, instinct or whatever you want to call it to the things you read or hear.  You are absolutely right John, there are only a couple of people who "claim" real world failures and a few more who "heard" they were bad and years and years and thousands and thousands of happy satisfied Fram users to dispel it.  I have decided to put my trust in the handful of real world "claims" no matter how dubious or scientifically unsound or statistically unreliable they may be because switching brands seems much better easier and cheaper to me in this case than potentially ruining an engine.
I do notice no one has chimed in yet to say they've experienced a failure with a Wix filter, even though I am sure there are some.

[Tigger]

This response is a little off topic, but you Cummins owners should know about this. A few years ago Chrysler released a Service notice to all dealers about Fram filters. They are NOT on the approved filter list, (your owners manual i believe should tell you which ones are approved). FOLLOW the recommended filter list. Chrysler cannot publicly come out and say do not use Fram filters for fear of law suit by Fram. Thats why they have the (approved) list. If your Cummins engine grenades and you don't have the (approved) filter on. Your engine warranty is GONE! The (supposed) reason Fram is not on the (approved) list is glue or adhesive that seals the filter to the housing. The adhesive separates and clogs the oil passages and/or the cooling jets for the pistons. Seen the pictures at Chrysler training, the 5.9 liter had a hole through the side of the block!!!

I don't know if Fram has addressed this or not, but Chrysler has not sent out another service notice saying its OK to use the filter now.

Buy the way, if you think changing the filter after your motor goes up, don't bother, Chrysler can easily figure it out that you used a Fram filter.

[Spike]

Why risk it? It is common knowledge that Fram filters are cheaply made, cardboard internals, no anti drain valve, etc. Why in the world would you go cheap on an oil filter?? This just makes no sense to me at all. People will buy the best wax, the best stereo, the best whatever and then try to save a buck or two on an oil filter. The most important part of keeping harmful particles from circulating in the lubrication system. I for one would not even use a Fram filter on my mower(if it used one) never mind any of my vehicles.

[440fan]

This is a long conversation.   I would never take a chance on any of my cars and use a Fram filter. Just go to NAPA or wherever and buy a filter made by Wix or if you really like your ride buy a K&N oil filter...

[ACUDANUT]

K@N filters are fram filters that have been painted differently.  They are made by the same people.

[Silver R/T]

K@N filters are fram filters that have been painted differently.  They are made by the same people.

where did you hear that from?

[ACUDANUT]

 HEHEE, I was just throwing in a anecdotal  that Ghost mentioned that goes around. Sounded good though. 

[Ghoste]

I think John called it first really, I just broadened the definition.  I'm still not using Fram filters and incidentally, K&N are what I use on the Charger. 

[John_Kunkel]

This response is a little off topic, but you Cummins owners should know about this. A few years ago Chrysler released a Service notice to all dealers about Fram filters. They are NOT on the approved filter list, (your owners manual i believe should tell you which ones are approved). FOLLOW the recommended filter list. Chrysler cannot publicly come out and say do not use Fram filters for fear of law suit by Fram.

Above is a classic example of how things can be taken out of context.

Singling out Fram from a lengthy list of unapproved filters for the Cummins ignores the rest of the brands on the list, many of which have been described in this thread as being among the best.

The Cummins piston oiling jets clogging is a unique situation; the problem isn't with any "adhesive", it is common to any filters that have neoprene internal components (that's just about all of them). To be approved for use in the Cummins, the filters must contain no neoprene components.

[Tigger]

This response is a little off topic, but you Cummins owners should know about this. A few years ago Chrysler released a Service notice to all dealers about Fram filters. They are NOT on the approved filter list, (your owners manual i believe should tell you which ones are approved). FOLLOW the recommended filter list. Chrysler cannot publicly come out and say do not use Fram filters for fear of law suit by Fram.

Above is a classic example of how things can be taken out of context.

Singling out Fram from a lengthy list of unapproved filters for the Cummins ignores the rest of the brands on the list, many of which have been described in this thread as being among the best.

The Cummins piston oiling jets clogging is a unique situation; the problem isn't with any "adhesive", it is common to any filters that have neoprene internal components (that's just about all of them). To be approved for use in the Cummins, the filters must contain no neoprene components.

Hmmm, taken out of context, this thread is talking about Fram filters(nothing more, nothing less). I'm not debating any other filters except Fram.

[squeakfinder]

 I used Fram oil filters for years without problems (but never on a high performance engine). Then as John stated "I heard they were junk." and I stopped using them. As a matter of fact, the guy behind the counter at NAPA was one of the people who told me they were junk.

Anyway, when you walk into Wallmart, what do you see? An isle full of Fram filters. Gee, do you think Fram compromised there quality to keep there prices low enough to sell there filters in Wallmarts store? 

[Challenger340]

I'm in the Engine "Business"

We Dyno every engine we build, and cut apart all Oil Filters for inspection as part of the Break-in process.

The following is a true story from 2 yrs ago;

We ran in a Customers Original 426 HEMI Charger Engine, cut apart the Filter, Half the paper Element was Missing, just plain old "wasn't there" from factory
Took Photos Immediately
Took Engine off Dyno
Contacted Owner

Now, if it was you or me, contacting the Oil Filter Company, I think the response from the Rep. might have been

"Geez awfully sorry 'bout that, here have a six-pack of free Filters", over the phone.

But, when you are "Mr Big" C.E.O. of un-named Oil Company here in Calgary,

and it's "HIS", documented HEMI Charger,

The Oil Filter Rep Flew in next Day.

Next thing we new we were dis-assembling, changing anything even remotely suspicious or dirty, re-assembling, and re-Dyno'ing, all on **** Oil Filter Companies Nickels.

Wonderful, that warranty work !

Who says Oil Filter Companies don't stand behind their product ?

True Story

[John_Kunkel]

Hmmm, taken out of context, this thread is talking about Fram filters(nothing more, nothing less). I'm not debating any other filters except Fram.

Your post stated that "Chrysler released a Service notice to all dealers about Fram filters." which is incorrect, they issued a TSB (TSB 09-004-01) with a list of approved filters; all others not on the list, including Fram, are not approved. There was no letter singling out Fram.

[RD]

I'm in the Engine "Business"

We Dyno every engine we build, and cut apart all Oil Filters for inspection as part of the Break-in process.

The following is a true story from 2 yrs ago;

We ran in a Customers Original 426 HEMI Charger Engine, cut apart the Filter, Half the paper Element was Missing, just plain old "wasn't there" from factory
Took Photos Immediately
Took Engine off Dyno
Contacted Owner

Now, if it was you or me, contacting the Oil Filter Company, I think the response from the Rep. might have been

"Geez awfully sorry 'bout that, here have a six-pack of free Filters", over the phone.

But, when you are "Mr Big" C.E.O. of un-named Oil Company here in Calgary,

and it's "HIS", documented HEMI Charger,

The Oil Filter Rep Flew in next Day.

Next thing we new we were dis-assembling, changing anything even remotely suspicious or dirty, re-assembling, and re-Dyno'ing, all on **** Oil Filter Companies Nickels.

Wonderful, that warranty work !

Who says Oil Filter Companies don't stand behind their product ?

True Story

ok, i'll bite.. which filter company

[jerry]

my 69 A12 road runner has had a fram filter on it since the second oil change after buying it new.when can i expect it to blow apart??

[RallyeMike]

my 69 A12 road runner has had a fram filter on it since the second oil change after buying it new.when can i expect it to blow apart?? hah hah

It might not. But if it does, you wont be crying in MY hankie.

[Challenger340]

my 69 A12 road runner has had a fram filter on it since the second oil change after buying it new.when can i expect it to blow apart??

Your call,
if you think the quality these days is the "same/same" as the ones you got when it was new ?

[bordin34]

I have 2 Allied Signal FRAM filters in my garage. This was before Honeywell aquired FRAM. Are these filters better than the new ones and do they have the cardboard ends?