Axle installation. Help!

[terrible one]

Aghh! I can't do anything to this car without getting caught up! Oh well, makes the reward better.

I recently rebuilt my rear suspension and as of right now I have the case, with differential and axle seals installed, sitting on the springs. The differential is a 3.55 suregrip in a 741 case, not sure of the year.

I am installing the axles per the FSM instructions. I put the backing plate and axle assembly into the drivers side first, slid it into place, and tightened the nuts on the retainer. However, once I got to the passenger side (side with the adjuster) the axle won't seem to go in all the way. It will go in far enough to catch in the splines and turn the differential, etc. but the retainer is still about a half inch or more from touching the flange. What's the deal?

[Musicman]

Dumb question but I still have to ask anyway.... You do have the adjuster backed all the way out, and not all the way in, correct?

[firefighter3931]

Try grabbing the axle flange and rotating it around while pushing in 


Ron

[terrible one]

Dumb question but I still have to ask anyway.... You do have the adjuster backed all the way out, and not all the way in, correct?

Yep. It's neither the flange/adjuster stopping it nor the bearing assembly. It just flat out won't go in. I just got back from fighting with it again. I've got a milk crate under the yoke so that it can't spin and I've been twisting and pushing and repositioning and nothing. Is there anything else it could be? This is no good at all!

[terrible one]

Scratch that. I went back over there calmed down and inspected it. The axle was going in all the way the whole time. The retainer wouldn't go because the outer bearing race wasn't wanting to slide into the housing. I got it to get in straight and far enough to get the nuts for the retainers started, and simply tightened each one a bit moving from one to the other clockwise until I had pushed the bearing in right and the retainer was snug, then I torqued the nuts for the retainers on both sides down.

However, I'm a bit confused about setting the end play. It doesn't seem like the adjuster on the right side of the car affects the left axle? And the instructions in the FSM I don't get for some reason. Turning the adjuster clockwise threads it into the retainer, thus creating more play. Turning it counterclockwise backs it out toward me and eventually makes contact with the axle and makes it to where there is no play. Still, this doesn't affect the left axle. . .

WHAT DID I DO WRONG?! 

[Musicman]

The adjuster nut is rotated "in" clockwise until you have zero end play (IE: you can't move the axle in or out at all). Then you rotate the prop several dozen times to fully seat the bearings and eject any excess grease. Go back and check for zero end play again, if it's loose, tighten it again and repeat the prop rotations. Once your satisfied that your bearings are fully seated and you have zero end play, back off on the adjuster about 4 notches, that should get you where you want to be... install the locking tab. You can always check your end play with a dial indicator if your real concerned about it.

[Charger-Bodie]

That is one of the reasons I like Green bearings.

No adjustments neccesary.

[Musicman]

The Green Bearings are not quite as rugged as the originals, but they are still "more than adequate" in most cases, and certainly more user friendly for some folks. Myself, I don't care one way or another, the old style is easy enough... it's not rocket science... just a little more tedious.

[mikepmcs]

.008 to .018

just feel a tug and your good in and out.


v/r
Mike

[terrible one]

I think there is a problem. I understand the end play adjustment process but I obviously have way too much. I'm fearing that the thrust block or button or whatever in my new suregrip unit is different than the 2.76 peglegger I pulled out. They are both 741's though. . . I'll post pictures of the case casting numbers in just a while.

[terrible one]

Can anyone tell me anything with the case stampings?

What I pulled out (2.76 open, think it's original ('68))




What I put in (3.55 clutch type suregrip, unknown year)



As far as I can narrow it down with my Google powers, BOTH of these chunks are from anywhere through 1963-1969. So they are pretty damn similar in design I would think. . . but could that still be my problem?

[mikepmcs]

I believe that NOT to be the problem, I pulled out 2.7's(open) in a 489 case and put in 3.2's(suregrip) in with a 742 case.  my only change was the yoke end.
I had no problems with the install at all. One question TO is this.... are you adjusting the nut the wrong way?  I'm not trying to be an a$$ but I started to go the wrong way at first and it was getting all sloppy and then went the other way and the metrics of the whole process cleared up in my mind. That's just a thought and I am by no means challenging your smarts.

*edit* i just read a few posts above from musicman and yourself on the rotation of the nut, i'm still thinking though.

in the meantime read this and see if something clicks for you.  http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/12.html

2070741 (1964-1972)

Any 8-3/4" center section may be interchanged for another as an entire

assembly, with the exception of center sections manufactured prior to

model year 1964

Hang in there you"ll get it.

v/r
Mike

[terrible one]

This is really frustrating.

On the right side I have confirmed that the axle is in all the way, the collar is making contact with where it is suppose to be sitting in the case. Haven't looked at the left side yet.

I'll go down there and make a quick video. I really have no idea what the deal could be. Could the bearing assembly not be pressed onto the axle far enough? As in the collar is keeping the axle from going all the way in?

[Musicman]

You should have little or no threads showing on your adjuster nut at zero end play... What do you have?  You normally have to use a punch and a hammer on the adjuster nut to drive it home and achieve zero, it usually won't turn in that far by hand.

[Musicman]

Coincidently, I just discovered an article covering this subject in the AUG 2008 edition of MOPAR Action

[terrible one]

That just makes me jealous.

Alright, so I understand the end play procedure completely by now. And with that, I know it's not my problem. With the adjuster all the way in, one thread showing is as good as I can get it by hand, there is a good 1/8" of play in both axles. Hell, probably more than that.

I decided to start back from square one. I pulled both axles out and looked at them. There is a LOT of play in the bearing/retainer assemblies.

I took videos of me fiddling with the assemblies on each axle, as I don't know how much there should be or should not be. Here they are:

Left Axle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHaKojtTH80

Right Axle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukuMD0tzkS8

Next, here is a picture looking through each case, showing the block or whatever in the chunks.

Old one:


New one:


From what everyone has told me (and thank you so much for all the help guys) it most likely isn't a problem with the compatibility of the differentials, but the things in the middle do look different.

Not knowing much about the axle bearing assemblies,if it IS NOT the differential, it seems to me that the axles may have walked out of the collar, as in the collar isn't as close to the axle flange/wheel end of the axle as it should be, and so when the retainer is tightened and the collar is snug, the axle isn't as far into the chunk as it should be. Does that make sense?

I appreciate all of the help. I'm determined to finish this part of my Charger and I'm going to look at it as a learning experience. If worst comes to worst I can get a different chunk, get the one I have made right, or put new bearing assemblies on there, whether it be Timkens or Greens. There aren't that many things to eliminate!

[Musicman]

With the adjuster all the way in, one thread showing is as good as I can get it by hand, there is a good 1/8" of play in both axles.

Have you used the punch and hammer that I mentioned yet? Chances are, you won't get to zero by hand...

[terrible one]

With the adjuster all the way in, one thread showing is as good as I can get it by hand, there is a good 1/8" of play in both axles.

Have you used the punch and hammer that I mentioned yet? Chances are, you won't get to zero by hand...

No but did you look at the video? It is way too off for that to make a difference. At least, I think so.

[Musicman]

Sorry... I can't view the video from here at work, but I'll have a look at it tomorrow if you haven't already solved the problem by then. 
Hopefully you don't have something Pre-64 in there somewhere... I'll check your pictures and numbers in the AM.
In the mean time... try driving the adjuster home with the punch and hammer and see what happens.

[terrible one]

Sorry... I can't view the video from here at work, but I'll have a look at it tomorrow if you haven't already solved the problem by then. 
Hopefully you don't have something Pre-64 in there somewhere... I'll check your pictures and numbers in the AM.
In the mean time... try driving the adjuster home with the punch and hammer and see what happens.

Musicman,

I went back there tonight after work and just did it per FSM instructions, and then got to the right side and did the adjuster thing like you said, and well, you know what happened.  . I misunderstood the application, I was wayyy underestimating where the adjuster bottomed out. So I got the end play down now and when my new axle seals get here (decided that maybe I shouldn't re-use the old ones and went for the safe side and plopped down the $15.00 to replace them) I'll get them in, install the axles, set the end play  , and be good to go and fill it with fluid and get the u-bolts, shock plates, and shocks on it.

Thanks for pressing the hammer-chisel thing through my hard head.

[Musicman]

Yup, your good to go 

I finally got a chance to see the pictures you posted of the 2 different carriers this morning when I was at home. Case number 2070741 is just what the doctor ordered .... Case number 1820657 (pre-64) used 2 different size axles for open & sure grip applications.

Good to hear that you finally got it figured out... Like I said earlier, it's really not a big deal "once you know what to expect".... so replace those seals, get it put back together and be proud of your efforts.... Then go get yourself a beer 

Mike 

[mikepmcs]

Root Beer that is.

Great job TO!


v/r
Mike

[terrible one]

Haha thanks guys. Updates to come. 

[Charger-Bodie]

Looks to me like you are missing the thrust button in the newly installed chunk. 

[terrible one]

What is the thrust button? Everything seems to be in order without it, end play is right between both axles. BTW there is SOMETHING in the center, the picture through the new chunk is with BOTH axles UNINSTALLED.