Need to buy a cam for the 496 stroker

[General_01]

Now I have to get a cam. Here is what I am getting for parts:

383 bored .060 over
4.25 stroke crank, zero deck height
dished pistons, 9.94:1 compression
edelbrock heads(mopar performance straight plug) 84 cc
Edelbrock Performer RPM for an intake (Read this article: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0801_mopar_intake_manifolds/index.html )
Headers?? Most likely 1 3/4 because of power steering??
3" exhaust with an X-pipe
1.6 ratio roller rockers

I am totally in the dark about a cam for this engine. What did you stroker guys use in yours?

[firefighter3931]

The "right" cam will depend on several factors ;

Style of driving, vacuum requirements, stall speed, gearing, tire diameter etc....


Ron

[General_01]

Style of driving: Mostly street, maybe a couple of times a year at the track for fun. I do have a "heavy foot" though.
Stall Speed: Whatever I want. It's gonna be a 4-speed.
Gearing: 3.55:1 rear drive
Vacuum requirements:Power brakes are the only requirement. I will probably be mounting a vacuum resevoir.
Tires: I will run 255/60/15 tires all around

[firefighter3931]

Style of driving: Mostly street, maybe a couple of times a year at the track for fun. I do have a "heavy foot" though.
Stall Speed: Whatever I want. It's gonna be a 4-speed.
Gearing: 3.55:1 rear drive
Vacuum requirements:Power brakes are the only requirement. I will probably be mounting a vacuum resevoir.
Tires: I will run 255/60/15 tires all around

A good "off the shelf" cam for your build would be the Comp Cams XS290S extreme energy solid. 

I would also rethink the RPM dual plane intake manifold....a 496 will want more air than the RPM can deliver. A holley street dominator single plane with a 1in open spacer will let that engine breathe much better. 


Make sure you have your block sonic checked if you plan to punch it out .060 over and pay close attention to the cylinder wall thickness on the major thrust side of the block. 



Ron

[General_01]

Thanks Ron. I am trying to contact VegasMike to see if he still has the 300-10 SD for sale. Another guy says he has a brand new one, but I think he has the one for 413-426-440. NOT for a 383-400 like he thinks. If I can't get ahold of the SD, do you think the Mopar M1 or the Edelbrock Victor intakes would be a good alternative. Their numbers looked pretty close in the article in my link above.

I checked the specs on that cam. From the looks I better buy the vacuum resevoir now, eh.

Also, I was wondering if you would know of a windage tray for the oil pan that will work. 440 has the one for up to 4.15 if I read it correctly. I will have a 4.25 stroke. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for your help.

One last note. I remember you talking about the newer oils and how they don't have the right content for flat tappet engines. The engine builder I am using was telling me the same thing. He sells a brand called BRADPENN. He started selling it because he would tell customers what you had been saying, but he didn't know of any place his customers could find the right oil. Kinda spendy though. He sells it for $4.50/qt.

[The Kid]

Not to hijack, but I have a quick question for either Ron or General.

What are the benefits/differences between a 383/400 low deck based stroker and a 440 based stroker? Is it a weight difference?

[firefighter3931]

Thanks Ron. I am trying to contact VegasMike to see if he still has the 300-10 SD for sale. Another guy says he has a brand new one, but I think he has the one for 413-426-440. NOT for a 383-400 like he thinks. If I can't get ahold of the SD, do you think the Mopar M1 or the Edelbrock Victor intakes would be a good alternative. Their numbers looked pretty close in the article in my link above.

I checked the specs on that cam. From the looks I better buy the vacuum resevoir now, eh.

Also, I was wondering if you would know of a windage tray for the oil pan that will work. 440 has the one for up to 4.15 if I read it correctly. I will have a 4.25 stroke. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for your help.

One last note. I remember you talking about the newer oils and how they don't have the right content for flat tappet engines. The engine builder I am using was telling me the same thing. He sells a brand called BRADPENN. He started selling it because he would tell customers what you had been saying, but he didn't know of any place his customers could find the right oil. Kinda spendy though. He sells it for $4.50/qt.

The SD will work fine and give you lots of hood clearance. The Victor would probably create hood clearance headaches and is better suited to a race application with more gearing than you will be running. The M1 is descent but it won't have as much bottom end grunt as the SD will. For your application the SD is the clear choice, inmo. Lots of bottom end grunt and enough air at the top to keep that motor happy. With a 1in spacer and the Proform 950 carb it'll scream ! 

The Comp 290 solid will be pretty mild in a 496....the extra displacement will eat up the duration. On a 440/451 cubed motor that is a healthy cam but in a big motor it will be mild enough to run a vacuum booster. It will still lope nicely and sound mean enough...don't worry about that. 

Use the Mancini hemi pan and matching pickup as well as the MP 4.15 stroke windage tray. The 440 source kits use a smaller 2.2 rod journal so clearance is a non issue with the 4.25 stroker crank. Several members here are using that combination in their 512 ci builds which also use the 4.25 stroke crank. 


Brad Penn is good oil. There breakin lube is loaded with lots of extreme pressure additives. If you can find some EOS at your local GM dealership or the Comp Cams breakin lube you can use that with a good performance oil like Valvoline VR-1 20/50 racing oil.


Look at the Howards EDM solid lifters with priority cam lobe oiling....these work very well and pressure feed oil to the cam lobes. 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Not to hijack, but I have a quick question for either Ron or General.

What are the benefits/differences between a 383/400 low deck based stroker and a 440 based stroker? Is it a weight difference?

Kid, the 383/400 block is more compact so there is increased clearance in the engine bay to work. The shorter deckheight also creates more hood clearance which can be an issue with flat hoods. There is also a slight weight advantage with the shorter block.


Ron

[The Kid]

Not to hijack, but I have a quick question for either Ron or General.

What are the benefits/differences between a 383/400 low deck based stroker and a 440 based stroker? Is it a weight difference?

Kid, the 383/400 block is more compact so there is increased clearance in the engine bay to work. The shorter deckheight also creates more hood clearance which can be an issue with flat hoods. There is also a slight weight advantage with the shorter block.


Ron

Thanks for clearing that up Ron!

[General_01]

Thanks Ron. VegasMike says he still has the intake, so when he gets back to me with an address I will be sending for that. I will order up the pan and windage tray.

I will check out the Howards EDM lifters.

I was already pretty sure you were going to recommend the Proform. I was just gonna ask what size and you already answered.

So far I am trying to get the parts together. The shop says it will take about two weeks to prep the block and rotating assembly after they get the stuff. So that gives me about 3 weeks total to get the rest of the stuff together so they can put it together and then dyno it.

[firefighter3931]

Here's a link to the EDM lifters...i wouldn't run a solid cam without these ! 

http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=91718

The Crane Gold 1.5:1 rocker arms or the Crane 1.5:1 ductile iron rockers will work fine. With this cam profile and the 1.5 rocker ratio you will be able to use the supplied valvesprings on the MP/Eddy heads....no need to swap valvesprings.

The pushrods will need to be custom made because the EDM lifters place the plunger lower in the lifter body than a stock mopar lifter. No big deal....the shop can mock it up during assembly with a checking pushrod and order the correct length in for you. Smith Brothers makes top shelf pushrods that are reasonably priced and they have a quick turnaround. 

When you order the carb get a 1in open phenolic spacer and the holley 20-7 throttle adapter. 


Any other questions just ask 



Ron

[General_01]

Ron, I already have some brand new 1.6 ratio roller rockers. Will this cam and heads work with them, or should I go a step down on the cam and let the rockers make up the rest?

Thanks for the link.

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I already have some brand new 1.6 ratio roller rockers. Will this cam and heads work with them, or should I go a step down on the cam and let the rockers make up the rest?

Thanks for the link.

What rockers do you have ? Fwiw, i would not use a "budget" rocker arm with this (or any) build. Buy quality parts and sleep better at night ! 


Ron

[General_01]

Another something to try and sell on ebay i guess. Thanks Ron.

[firefighter3931]

Another something to try and sell on ebay i guess. Thanks Ron.

You've seen Mally's rocker arm thread huh ?    Don't make the same mistake 


Ron

[General_01]

I hear ya. I don't want to have to try to explain to the wife that I need another $1,500 in the engine when I can just spend $350 on the front end. I am shopping around for prices on stuff right now between Mancini, Summit, Competition Products, etc, etc. Trying to get as many things as possible so I don't have to pay for engine shop prices on parts.

Sad thing is that i have a brand new timing set out in the garage for a 3 bolt cam. Gotta sell that and get a single bolt. I think a thread in the for sale section is in order for all my extra parts.

[firefighter3931]

I hear ya. I don't want to have to try to explain to the wife that I need another $1,500 in the engine when I can just spend $350 on the front end. I am shopping around for prices on stuff right now between Mancini, Summit, Competition Products, etc, etc. Trying to get as many things as possible so I don't have to pay for engine shop prices on parts.

Sad thing is that i have a brand new timing set out in the garage for a 3 bolt cam. Gotta sell that and get a single bolt. I think a thread in the for sale section is in order for all my extra parts.

Call Comp and have them grind the cam on a 3 bolt core...they will do that for you if you ask. 



Ron

[General_01]

Cool. Thanks.

[General_01]

Good news. The 440 Source kit arrived today. I threw it in the truck and ran it down to the engine builder with the block. Should have it back in about a month.

Good news also. I found out I should use my eyes more. The timing set I have is for a single bolt. Yessss!! Gotta enjoy the little wins.

[General_01]

Heads came today. Boy are they light compared to the stock heads! The oil pan came too, but it looks like the windage tray might be backordered. Have to check on that. I think I may be driving around with a rusty hood this year. I think I blew my paint budget on the stroker kit and then some. Gives me something to do next year. Or maybe the year after.

[firefighter3931]

The aluminum heads are 25 lbs lighter (each) so that's 50 lbs off the nose of the car. When you add in the aluminum intake and other misceleneous parts it adds up quick. 


Ron

[General_01]

When you add in the aluminum intake and other misceleneous parts it adds up quick. 


Ron

Are you talking about the weight loss or the prices? 

[General_01]

Forgot to say the lifters came today. And UPS called and said more is coming tomorrow. Should be the cam, gasket set, timing cover, fastener kit, oil slinger, roller rockers, and cam bolt. Now I need to order the carb and adapter and the spacer. Then I need to get the flywheel resurfaced and order a Dual friction Centerforce clutch assembly. I will wait another few weeks and order up the radiator.

I am thinking I should have gotten a new radiator and threw the 440 into the Bee and called it good. My budget is shot and the builder is just starting.   Guess that's why we have banks for loans.