Hard Times?

[Shakey]

I just about Andy getting a new job, Pete has a job interview and some others have mentioned being down on their luck.

It sounds as though this looming recession in the United States I keep hearing about is already affecting some members here!  Is that true or are these difficult times the result of something else?

I've heard about the housing market woes in certain pockets of the United States - is this the cause of the grief I read about from other members?



 

[Brock Samson]

It's a domino effect,.. I'm sure floating loans to folks with out the means to repay has alot to do with it,..
but there are other factors like the rising costs accross the board, particularly fuel prices...
I also belive that NAFTA and the exponental growth of our trade imblance has to be a factor.
The chickens have come home to roost. This was foreseen ten years ago.

[1st_charger]

I think its affecting all lines of work! And I fell for everyone thats down and am happy for those that things are looking up for with the new jobs! I'm looking at possibly being unemployed this July. The company I work for is sending all of there products to Mexico and China to be made. If I make it past July I am almost guarantied another 6 months of employment! After being here for 7 years I'm trying to way my options, I've never been unemployed.

[ITSA426]

There is so much to say that this will be a long topic or locked up shortly. 

I worked in the airline industry for 15 years and left by choice.  Lowering our standards, as CEO's make bazillions hasn't helped.  There is a hoarding of wealth in America that hasn't been seen since the beginning of the last century.  It will lead to collapse of the middle class. 

I don't know anybody that hasn't had to make a drastic change to keep their lifestyle.  Easy credit isn't the answer and working harder for less to be globally competitive doesn't seem to work.  Lower taxes aren't the answer if the tax money is simply paying down interest in a huge debt or buying corporate interests.  Here in Minnesota we're using tax dollars to build a ballpark for one of the richest men in the state; and his family business gets the revenue it produces.  Meanwhile, we're fighting for money to rebuild the Interstate - 35 bridge that collapsed. 

This country needs to rebuild it's infrastructure.  Doing that creates jobs and requires technology improvements that will be used here. Building the interstate highway system created jobs.  So did the rail system.  Rebuilding them would do the same.  We can do the same with energy and other non-military technology.  We just have to thinking short term and lowest bidder. 

We've allowed a generation of bad leadership and shortsighted thinkiing to bring this country down.  We need to think about what is best long term for our children and grandchildren.

Sorry for the rant.  This is a topic that touches me as a working class American, a veteran, and my religious values as a Christian.   

[moparstuart]

national debt is way to high , devalued dollar   :Twocents:l

[andy74]

the political climate,price of fuels,and alot of other things are causeing the down turn we are seeing now-i am a frm believer that we as a country will pull out of the downward spiral we are currnetly in,but how long until it happens no one can know.i am a victim of a greedy boss who sold everyone of his employees out with no warning or remorse,and he is still living in his big house on the river,with his boats,cars and possesions thinking nothing is wrong.the sad truth is that there is not much that can be done with out a huge change in the way things are done,from the factory worker to the ceo of a large company,the entitlement attitude of most people has to change to fix whats wrong-the good people should be able to rise to the top,and the lazy should not be rewarded because they have time on their side.

rant over,for now

[Mike DC]

 
In the big economic picture, the US middle & lower-middle classes have gradually been pressured about as far as they can stand during the last few decades.  The wages are staying pretty flat (and aren't low to begin with) but the costs of living just keep climbing faster.  It's very difficult to live a cheap existence here.

But this particular current situation has been building for about the last decade.




We've really been due for a recession since the dotcom implosion on Wall Street in about 2000.  Not to mention 9/11.  The govt tried to stave off a recession instead of letting it play out like it needed to, and now we're in for a much bigger problem than they were originally trying to prevent.

Around 9/11 to 2002, the US govt basically allowed/encouraged a housing "bubble" of speculation.  Some people over-borrowing, some people refinancing & taking the cash now, some people just buying speculative real estate. 




Some people borrowed against the (artificially) increasing equity of their houses or else they just refinanced the existing loans.  It seemed that the real estate prices here would only go upwards.  And there were also some predatory lending practices going on sometimes too, with some of the subprime ARM mortgages.   

(But to be fair, the housing & real estate speculation idea probably wasn't 100% total lunacy to begin with.  There's been massive recent construction and this is basically still an uncrowded nation compared to the rest of the 1st world.  Lots of real estate prices in the US still do seem pretty low in comparison to a similar given house or property in many other countries.  But recently the market just overshot things and got way ahead of itself.) 



Now the housing value "bubble" is imploding.  A whole lot of people are finding that without ever-decreasing real estate values (often their primary assets), they're way overextended.  It's having a ripple effect on the whole economy way beyond just those in direct real estate trouble.  It's just the hitting of a long, long overdue recession here.   

 

[ITSA426]

Some people were taxed on that artificial equity, and now local governments are looking to raise the mil rates to keep the same tax base (income) even as housing values go down.  Just one more log on the fire.

[SFRT]

on the neg side, I live in SF and we have the most expensive gas in the country. premium is like 4.59 in my area. 4.19 at the 'cheap place'
I do a lot of overseas manufacture and my manu cost and shipping has gone up about 12% in the last year.

and  my business sales have been flat for 2 quarters in the US,


BUT my export sales to europe and japan have nearly tripled, since the lower dollar makes my goods seem 'a bargain' so the low dollar/higher fuel bit is more than offset by increased foriegn sales so I am coming out ahead lately.

the housing deal has no effect on me since I dont have any money invested in real estate and both the properties I lease are rent controlled. My tactic while I live in SF is that I lease stuff for 1/8th the cost of a mortgage and invest that extra money in other ways. When I retire I will re-locate to the most inexpensive place I can find and cash out the investments to actually purchase a property in full then kick back debt free.

[bull]

Here in Minnesota we're using tax dollars to build a ballpark for one of the richest men in the state; and his family business gets the revenue it produces.  Meanwhile, we're fighting for money to rebuild the Interstate - 35 bridge that collapsed. 
 

Local governments do this to increase their long-term revenue. They don't care if the little guy gets screwed any more than executives do as long as they get the money they "need" to justify their own existence.

[Mike DC]

 
That's modern govt.

If the plague broke out tomorrow, they'd try to stop it with eminent-domain land grabs and building a new ballpark.

[hutch]

Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.  I dont see a winner in this election coming up.  The democrats are running to of the biggest Marixists we have ever seen as a nation and the Republicans are running an old fool that plays politics more than solves problems for his people.

[andy74]

Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.  I dont see a winner in this election coming up.  The democrats are running to of the biggest Marixists we have ever seen as a nation and the Republicans are running an old fool that plays politics more than solves problems for his people.

not to turn this political,but who can you vote for?i for one hope for hillary,but only because i see her as the lesser of 3 evils,i think bill clinton was a fine president(cant keep it in his pants but thats his problem)and i hope his experience would rub off on her,and the other two dont seem to have any plans on how to fix the economy,not that ive heard a lot of her plans either-i just know that we need a big change at the top,and someone who will figure out a way to get the us economy rolling again,and i dont see the old bastard or the obama doing so,jsut my ONLY political comment for the year

[TeeWJay426]

Read this little tidbit from Lee Iacocca. Personally, I think this guy should be who we put in the Whitehouse, even if he's older than McCain. He says it like it is, and I couldn't agree more. Especially given the three losers we have to pick from now!

http://www.infowars.com/?p=1627

[Chad L. Magee]

I am looking for a job right now, but that is because I am graduating from MU this semester (finally, all I need is three more Professors' signatures on my D4 form to make it official), and hitting the job market at the worst time (my usual luck).  The industrial market is not doing good right now, alot of the drug companies are having hiring freezes until the economy gets back on its feet, but the oil and plastic companies are doing good.  At least the universities have teaching jobs that are more sheltered from the lowering economy, but most want post doc experience first (a catch 22 situation).  I have found some promising research jobs that I have applied for, but have no interviews from them yet (but it is early in the game now, for these jobs you sometimes have to wait six months before they contact you).  Hopefully, I will get a few good job offers soon......

[hutch]

Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.  I dont see a winner in this election coming up.  The democrats are running to of the biggest Marixists we have ever seen as a nation and the Republicans are running an old fool that plays politics more than solves problems for his people.

not to turn this political,but who can you vote for?i for one hope for hillary,but only because i see her as the lesser of 3 evils,i think bill clinton was a fine president(cant keep it in his pants but thats his problem)and i hope his experience would rub off on her,and the other two dont seem to have any plans on how to fix the economy,not that ive heard a lot of her plans either-i just know that we need a big change at the top,and someone who will figure out a way to get the us economy rolling again,and i dont see the old bastard or the obama doing so,jsut my ONLY political comment for the year

I just dont like how Hillary will get busted in a lie and then get out of it like it was nothing.  I think she just says what people want to hear so they will vote for her.   They are all doing that.  McCain,Obamma are just talking happy talk and have no real plan to fix things.

I think we are short on leadership all around right now in America.  I would like to see someone come into power and return us to the constitution and get away from all this class warfare business along with this war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terror. 

War on poverty has gone on for over 50 years now and we still have poor people.  War on drugs is over 25 years old and we have more drugs now than ever.

War on terror is just a way to get us all under the thumb of the federal government.  We have had so many rights stripped away because of this mess.   I can take care of my own family, I dont need the government telling me what I can or cant do in the event of something going wrong.

[chargerboy69]

Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.  I dont see a winner in this election coming up.  The democrats are running to of the biggest Marixists we have ever seen as a nation and the Republicans are running an old fool that plays politics more than solves problems for his people.

I could not agree more.

As for the original question there are several factors playing into what we are going through. Government overspending, declining dollar, people overextending themselves on credit, oil prices, rising food cost and housing market, just because you get approved for that $300,000 house, doesn't mean you should buy it.

[The70RT]

Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.  I dont see a winner in this election coming up.  The democrats are running to of the biggest Marixists we have ever seen as a nation and the Republicans are running an old fool that plays politics more than solves problems for his people.

not to turn this political,but who can you vote for?i for one hope for hillary,but only because i see her as the lesser of 3 evils,i think bill clinton was a fine president(cant keep it in his pants but thats his problem)and i hope his experience would rub off on her,and the other two dont seem to have any plans on how to fix the economy,not that ive heard a lot of her plans either-i just know that we need a big change at the top,and someone who will figure out a way to get the us economy rolling again,and i dont see the old bastard or the obama doing so,jsut my ONLY political comment for the year

I agree.... but if Hillary gets in no matter what happens they will blame her for what ever George did. I say put in the old bastard and let him TRY to clean up George's shit which will take 20 years if even at all....Im done!

[andy74]

if Lee Iaccocca ran id vote for him,no matter how old he is,now there is a guy who can be a leader,and doesnt bow down to anyone,what is really what we as a country need

[Brock Samson]

 I don't think a president can solve this mess,..
sure we can think globaly but we must act localy..

I'm concidering all options, maybe even moving to Vancouver Island.. I thought I've had for several years now..
Hey Bronzy, can i sleep on your mom's couch?.. 

[hutch]

if Lee Iaccocca ran id vote for him,no matter how old he is,now there is a guy who can be a leader,and doesnt bow down to anyone,what is really what we as a country need

He just wrote a book about how we are short on leadership that is a good read from what I have heard.  Not to be a dodge freak, but I think he was the old school type of leadership we need right now. 

I think lots of good people dont get into politics because its such a mess and they dont want to drag their familes into this mess and have everyones life put under a microscope or dragged into the mud.

we all have a past and no too long ago we did not care about what was in a persons past.   Now a persons past is their future in politics.

[Mike DC]

I agree.  A person's past has become too relevant to getting elected.

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Dollar needs to be a little stronger I think before things get better for most of us.

That's the problem and the point.  Unfortunately we're never gonna get that stronger dollar IMO. 


It's not like this inflation is some kind of Act of God that's out of anyone's control.  The Fed-Res could reduce the money supply and kill this inflation dead in its tracks any time they felt like it.  But this inflation has been going on for years.  They've been doing as much as can be done while staying below the threshold where it draws attention.

The US is too far in debt to both its citizens in the future and to other countries.  Inflating a currency effectively reduces all debts that are measured by specific numbers of that currency.

 

[Brock Samson]

the future is here now... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkdcYlOn5M

[RECHRGD]

I'm concidering all options, maybe even moving to Vancouver Island.. I thought I've had for several years now..
Hey Bronzy, can i sleep on your mom's couch?..

Concidering???  Sorry Brock, couldn't resist.

[Brock Samson]

well,.. at least i no the difference between to and too and their, there and they're....