What to look for when buying an engine?

[mach1z]

This guy has a motorhome out in the farm somewhere. He told me I can pull the 440 and tranny out of it for 500 bucks. I'm worried about the block condition. He says it will run and it's been sitting without the radiator hooked up. Is there a sure sign for a cracked block I need to be looking for? Other than the obvious outside cracks I mean. Other hints or tips are welcome. Thanks, Z

[Chatt69chgr]

I don't think there is any real way to tell other than visual inspection.  I suppose if you could get the engine to run and checked to see if the cooling system would hold pressure that would be an indication.  Even junkyards will warranty the block to not be cracked and will usually give you your money back or give you another block if it is.  Why don't you just voice your concerns and see if the seller will do the same.  Don't forget that the block might be overbored and you won't know that until you take it apart and unless it was part of the agreement, you wouldn't have any recourse on that.  Also check the engine mounting ears to see if they are broken.  Reject it if they are.  Seems like the water pump outlet was different on motorhomes so you might have to get another one for a car but they are cheap.  Intake is probably 2-bbl but you will probably trash it anyway.  Exhaust manifolds are probably the old "log" style and won't work in a car.  Tailshaft on the transmission is different in a motorhome.

I think you will have to take the engine apart and have the block hot-tanked and magnafluxed for cracks.   Then sonic tested to check the cylinder wall thickness.  Heads are often cracked but sometimes can be used anyway.  You can buy open chambered heads for $100 each now from 440Source.  Or you can buy a set of iron heads ready to go from Arrowhead for $500. 

[mach1z]

Thanks for the reply. I read up on some of that stuff and I was aware of the water pump and tail shaft.  My other option would be a New Yorker,1968. Its a 440 car running and driving with new Edelbrock carb and A/C. That one is 1500 bucks. I 'm thinking the New Yorker is a little bit more hassle free, plus I can use the bigger radiator and A/C stuff of it. Do you think it's worth the extra 1000 bucks? I could crush the body or part it out after I'm done.

[bull]

I've thought about buying the old "ran when pulled" engines but I don't really think it's worth the risk. I'd rather buy a bare block that has the main caps and buy everything else aftermarket. Or find a local rebuilder whose got a 440 long block you can buy finished for $2,500 or so.

[miller]

I've thought about buying the old "ran when pulled" engines but I don't really think it's worth the risk. I'd rather buy a bare block that has the main caps and buy everything else aftermarket. Or find a local rebuilder whose got a 440 long block you can buy finished for $2,500 or so.

Quick question, whats the difference between a long and short block?

[Fitz73Chrgr]

I've thought about buying the old "ran when pulled" engines but I don't really think it's worth the risk. I'd rather buy a bare block that has the main caps and buy everything else aftermarket. Or find a local rebuilder whose got a 440 long block you can buy finished for $2,500 or so.

Quick question, whats the difference between a long and short block?

A short block consists of the engine block itself, the crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, camshaft and all the corresponding bearings

A long block is all of the above plus the heads, valve train, lifters, oil pump, gaskets and a few other things

[Chatt69chgr]

The New Yorker for $1500 sounds a little high.  I will admit that scrap is sky high right now.  If you dismantle the car at your place, you would have to pay someone to haul it to the scrapyard.  Depending on where you live, that might cost $50-$100.  Lots of those guys won't haul one in thats totally scrap unless you pay them or at least give them the car so they can turn it in.  The radiator thats on the New Yorker might be worth $50 in copper----maybe a little less.  It won't fit a 2nd gen Charger.  Not sure what you are going to put this in.  The exhaust manifolds won't work in a Charger---they are the log style.  The power steering box could be used for a core.  The rear end is most likely a 8-3/4 but the carrier is too wide for a Charger.  It could be cut down but it's not really worth it.  Best to find one the right size.  The pumpkin in a car this size was probably a 742.  And it may have a suregrip.  If it does, it will proably be a plate type.  But the rearend ratio would probably be a 2.76.  Not very desirable.  But the pumpkin would be a nice thing if it did have a plate type suregrip in it.  The rear brake drum assemblies are 11 inch and can be used on a charger project.  But most lilkely, the only thing resuable would be the backing plates and spreader bar.  You would probably be replacing the rest of the stuff.  None of the front discs at the wheels are usable on a Charger.  But the power booster might be the desirable Bendix one that is so hard to find.  It can be rebuilt but you need to tell them to replace the pushrod with the shorter one used on B-bodys.  Prior Brake in Ft. Worth, TX does this very reasonably.  I'am not sure what a Edelbrock carb sells for but it's probably around $300 plus or minus.  I just don't know.  The steel rims are not worth anything since they are probably 6 inch or 6.5 inch X 15 inch and not 7X15.  You could use them to roll your car around with so you wouldn't damage your good wheels.  The jack handle and base is the same as a Charger as is the long part with the teeth on it but the jacking part that hooks to the bumper is different and, thus, won't work (although I have thought that a crafty person could modify that part if they had the time and inclination).  The trans is worth maybe $75 to $100.  $440's go for $350 to $700 depending on condition and where you live.  I don't know what kind of heads were used on 68 440's.  Might be a close chambered type.  You can't tell without taking off a valve cover to see the casting number.  AC stuff on these cars is mostly junk  as it was the R12 type and uses the heavy and inefficient RV2 compressor.  I think the heater core is the dual core type and is the same as a charger but I wouldn't want to use an old core like that in a restoration project considering what a pain it is to take the heater box out and put it back in.  I bet the car has cruise control on it and that stuff is the same as used on Chargers but I really doubt you can get any parts for that subsystem so using it in a restoration would be problematic at best.  If you can get the whole deal for less than a thousand, it might be worth it assuming the engine is good  (watch out for broken motor mounts on the engine).

[Steve P.]

My opinion is this. 500 bucks for an unknown motor that you have to pull is alllllllllllot. Especially when you have to pull it out of a motorhome. Of course this is not alllllways true as I did get my hands on one from a MH that was very low miles and in excellent shape. The kicker is, (I only paid $112.00 for it). Also I did not pull it. The guy that did pull it only wanted the heavy duty con. rods. (I don't know why).

Anyway, I would continue to look around. There are still deals out there. Check www.Craigslist.org in your area. Also check around in our Classifieds here.  Check with 440 source too. They check out all the blocks they sell so you should not have any surprises.

As far as the tranny goes it may be normal or have the brake drum on it. That depends on the class of MH.

[mach1z]

Thanks for the very thorough replies guys. I ended up picking up a 440 from a 74 Roadrunner complete with radiator, Edelbrock intake and carb, rebuilt all brass 727, A/C dash and ducts + controls. All that for 1000 bucks. The car ran and drove and he pulled the motor after I left a deposit. Oh and I got a lower windshield chrome trim and I might be getting a lot of miscelanious stuff: wiper motors and links, cowl covers etc. I will post the motor numbers tommorow. the numbers on top of the motor, in front of the intake, were 4T 440 E 12 212. I belive that's a 74 so it would match my car perfectly. Thanks again for the replies. I will post pics as soon as I get it home.
Any suggestions on what to do to the motor first? I think that year was only putting out like 230 hp or so.

[justin1987]

Thanks for the reply. I read up on some of that stuff and I was aware of the water pump and tail shaft.  My other option would be a New Yorker,1968. Its a 440 car running and driving with new Edelbrock carb and A/C. That one is 1500 bucks. I 'm thinking the New Yorker is a little bit more hassle free, plus I can use the bigger radiator and A/C stuff of it. Do you think it's worth the extra 1000 bucks? I could crush the body or part it out after I'm done.

I bought a 1967 New Yorker for the 440, trans, and other stuff for $1000. It was unbelievable how much stuff interchanged with my charger. It was well worth the money in the long run. Plus I got $120 when I took it to the scrap yard.