Hi 1st post here on dodgecharger.com

[G-man]

Hi

I am off the cuda-challenger website. I have had a 1970 Dodge challenger since August 2005. It is currently running a restoration, once completed it will be sold to fund my college fees.

Having said this, I am after a driveable vehicle for alot cheaper then the car I have. So, I was planning to either replace it with another 70 challenger (driver condition, bad paint etc) or, a 1968 Dodge Charger.

Here are my questions which will help.

Why are the challengers more expensive? ( I heard less made, more investers)

How does a challenger perform to that of a charger?

If I fit both with 500hp and SS springs, which is going to be better for 1/4 mile and 0-60mph times?

Why would somebody buy a charger over a challenger?

What do/dont you like about charger/challenger?

Which is the "better" car overall?

Which car can you do more with?

EG: Challenger i can knock down to 3300lbs. Howmuch would it cost to get the charger to the same weight?

Would the charger cost more overall if I was to get it to perform as good as a challenger?

Also - I Like the 68 charger front but i like the 70 charger rear tailights... If i was to buy the 68 charger and stick the 70 charger rear tailights on it, would the car be a joke, would the car then be worth nothing, or there is nothing wrong in doing this?

Whats the weight of a non-optioned charger. I have had ppl say 60lbs more than a 1970 Dodge Challenger others said they have seen chargers weigh less than challengers... ?

ANything else you can think of that i need to know, please say so that I can make my mind up as to which car to buy.

G-   

[RD]

1st and foremost, welcom to the site!!  now to answer the questions (and there is not one bit of scientific proof to legitimize my answers )

Why are the challengers more expensive? ( I heard less made, more investers)

because they are e bodies, not as many were produced, and they are defined as pony cars that had similar drivetrain packages as the definitive big body sedan (musclecars), hence increased bang for the buck

How does a challenger perform to that of a charger?

very similar in performance, but if the drivetrains were apples to apples, it depends on the driver... face it.. without modifications, they are all 35-40 year old cars that handle like crap

If I fit both with 500hp and SS springs, which is going to be better for 1/4 mile and 0-60mph times?

horsepower to weight is a variable, but also you have to consider the driver, consistency, what transmission, and what gears in the rear... a lot of unanswered questions there.

Why would somebody buy a charger over a challenger?

they look better,... and bad guys drove chargers, not challengers

Which is the "better" car overall?

charger of course... well was I supposed to say something else? hehe

Which car can you do more with?

i would say either, but if you look at trim packages etc.. it totally is based upon the year of charger...  if you go with a 69, you can have every option to include making a 500 or daytona out of it.  with a challenger, you can only go with a t/a for exotic... but man that is too broad to really answer without getting carpal tunnel

EG: Challenger i can knock down to 3300lbs. Howmuch would it cost to get the charger to the same weight?

a serious diet, fiberglass front clip and nothing but a drag seat for the driver

Would the charger cost more overall if I was to get it to perform as good as a challenger?

matters on what you define as performance

Also - I Like the 68 charger front but i like the 70 charger rear tailights... If i was to buy the 68 charger and stick the 70 charger rear tailights on it, would the car be a joke, would the car then be worth nothing, or there is nothing wrong in doing this?

it wont be a joke, its your car, do with it what you want, but of course there will always be someone not liking it, so be prepared to hear from the naysayers,  but in the end.. it isnt their car, so tell them to shut up

Whats the weight of a non-optioned charger. I have had ppl say 60lbs more than a 1970 Dodge Challenger others said they have seen chargers weigh less than challengers... ?

i had a 71 barebones and it weighed 3800lbs (no interior at all)

hope this helps

[Troy]

Uhhhhh, where to start?

I have both (70 Challenger and several 68 Chargers) and I just sold my 73 Barracuda so I'll try to shed some light on the subject. What is your goal for the car? Do you like the Charger for the styling or are you trying to save money and/or go fast? It sounds like you want "performance" but I'm not sure what kind (drag race or corners). The B and E body cars are very close when it comes to construction and have nearly identical drive train options (and upgrades). The Challenger is shorter in length - and therefore lighter - so it has some advantage in stock form. Chargers also have a heavier interior (bigger seats, more padding, larger consoles, etc.). Chargers also have a full-size spare. I doubt you're going to get a Charger with a decent big block down to 3,300 pounds without serious modification (and the real question is "why?"). I'm not sure how you'd realistically get a "street driven" Challenger down to that weight either but I'll have to check into that. I think there's about a 300 pound difference between comparable models (318 vs 318 or 440 vs 440). Probably the only 68 Charger that weighs less than a 70 Challenger would be one with a 318 vs a Hemi. However, I'm not sure you'd see a big difference in 1/4 mile times with identical drive trains (something to do with the length compensating for the weight). Chargers all had sway bars from the factory but you'll need to upgrade the Challenger if you bought a base model. If you're modifying the car any way that doesn't matter much. As for which you can do more with - it's about the same as well. I'd rather take a Challenger out auto-crossing though simply because of the dimensions.

I'm a "style" person so I happen to like the looks of the Charger better. I like Cudas better than Challengers but I have a sentimental attachment to the Challenger so it moves ahead on my scale. I also think putting 70 taillights on a 68 is a ridiculous idea but it's not my car. Why not just buy a 70 - they're cheaper and swapping out fenders/hood/grill is a lot easier than swapping a tail panel and lights. Some people prefer the high back buckets and seating position of the E-body cars and others think the back seat and trunk are too small to live with on a daily basis.

Challengers are "more popular" so the price is higher to start with. Since the cars are very close in original construction the effort and cost to build are probably very close. The big difference here is the amount of reproduction parts available for the Challenger. You can buy almost anything - but there's a cost. Some stuff for a Charger is nearly impossible to find. It all depends on the level/quality of restoration that you want. I have also found that, even though parts are available, they don't always fit right so building an E-body is still a pain.

Troy

[G-man]

Hi

Thanks for replies.

Im refering to 0-60mph and 1/4 mile.

Yes there are plenty variablse such as driver, gearing etc etc.

Im talking in the sense of, SS springs (both cars) Gearing the same (both cars) Both cars, equally skilled drivers, Both cars same sized wheels/tyres etc etc.

Basically what im getting at is as an example.

Say im sitting at a light and a mustang comes along (or any skyline/supra/chevy whatever) Wants a run for fun. Lets say the Charger loses. Would I ever be able to say "If I had an identical Challenger built, I woulda won"

Or the difference between the 2 for straight liners is so close that if I lose, id lose with a challenger also etc.

Sure the charger looks awesome, looks bad ass (the 68 that is) but, does it go as good as it looks or is it too heavy to waste time trying to do straight liners.

Whichever Car i Get i will build the same (alloy radiator, alloy water housing, alloy cylener heads, alloy manifold) and whatever else in the egine bay can be aluminium.

HP2 of Cuda-challenger has seen a 69 charger with a 440 weigh less than his 73 challenger with a 318. Chrycho spycho has weighed his friends 69 charger and it only weighed 60lbs more. He says its mainly "boxed air". Chargers only a foot longer and 2 inches wider... nowhere near enough to provide a 300lb difference.

So i dunno.

More feedback helpfull.

Thanks

[0X01B8]

Say im sitting at a light and a mustang comes along (or any skyline/supra/chevy whatever) Wants a run for fun. Lets say the Charger loses. Would I ever be able to say "If I had an identical Challenger built, I woulda won"

I don't race at all, almost never and never a bike, truck, or a ricer.  There's no good reason unless it's a comparable muscle car.  What's the upside?  You beat a Honda, so what.  Or worse, you lost to a Honda!  Like RD said, bad guys drive Chargers, and bad guys don't care.  I think of it like an Elephant walking around, everybody is gonna want a piece of you, but you've got nothing to prove.  Leave it a mystery and the story to their buddies will go something like "man I saw a Charger today!", instead of possibly, "man I beat a Charger today!."

I like to drive around in 3rd gear and at a certain rpm it growls real nicely, but that's just me.   

-john

[RECHRGD]

G-man, welcome to the site.  There will always be a faster car out there.  With all of the after market options available today for both new and old cars you'll never know if what pulls up next to you is a 15 second 1/4 mile car or an 11 second car.  So why bother?  Just build the car up to what your happy with and can afford.  Just know that a '68 Charger that has a little rumble to intimidates most others on the road.  These cars bring smiles to most peoples faces and bring out more than a little bit of envy.  Just be happy knowing that most people that pull up next to you (even in an 11 second something or other) would die to have your car.  No need to be concerned 10ths of a second difference in accelleration unless your at the drag strip.  Then just get an old Dart or Demon and drop a crate hemi in it.     Bob

[bull]

It sounds to me like you like the styling of both cars pretty equally and are looking for a speed advantage in one or the other to tip the scales. I just don't think there is a lot of evidence out there to say the Charger is faster because it's a Charger or the Challenger is faster because it's a Challenger. I've never heard anyone say they chose the Challenger over the Charger because it's lighter and faster. I mean if you really like the Charger and want to be seen racing in a Charger just up the HP to the 600 range and be done with it. Most guys I see drag racing Mopars these days are using Darts and Dusters.

As far as you liking the 68 front and the 70 back, I dunno. I've never considered modifying the sheetmetal to change the appearance of any Charger since I want to enjoy them the way they were designed. Just pick one and stick with it. To me it's like wishing your girlfriend or wife had the legs of the girl working at Hooters, you know? Wish in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up faster. Anyway, if you don't want to modify sheetmetal on a Challenger I say go with a Challenger.

[Troy]

Does that guy have a trunk full of concrete in his 73 Challenger (or was the 69 Charger with 440 made of fiberglass)? My 70 Challenger 340 with A/C is listed at a bit over 3,200 pounds. We weighed 472 R/T SE's 70 Charger with a Hemi at over 4,500 with us in it. For reference, I believe my RX-7 was around 2,600 pounds empty. I have access to a truck scale so maybe I'll go weigh my R/T today. I won't argue with Chryco since he's seen way more of these cars than I have and I respect his opinion but be sure you're comparing similar vehicles (brakes, transmissions, rear ends, options, etc.).

I'm confused. You're building a Challenger to fund your college but you're wanting to build another (equally expensive) car with a bunch of lightweight (expensive) components? Keep your car and start from there. The benefit to either car is that - no matter what the weight - you can build as much power as you can get to the ground. If you want to race Hondas then buy a little (light) car. I'd recommend a Willys. I'd recommend a Supra but the prices went through the roof. Other options are either a Cobra or Sebring kit. Don't try to fight the physics if all you want is a race car. Why all the concern about weight any way? Leave your buddy/girlfriend on the corner when you want to go faster (or add more power).

A Charger or Challenger is plenty fast in a straight line - if done correctly - and you aren't likely to see a major difference in times if you go to the track (even if set up the same). Many street racers don't have full blown race cars so the odds of lining up next to someone with a barely-better-than-stock car are good. A mild 440 is usually all you need. Hooking up on the street when you have gobs of torque is the real issue. Remember that any car can go fast (and faster than yours) with enough time, money, and attention to detail.

Troy

[six-tee-nine]

A guy I know also has/had both B and E body styles. He told me that in the end The B body's are the best to drive I you look at all the aspects. He told me they are more comfortable to drive on a longer trip.

By the way asking on a Charger Forum if the Chally is a better car? I don't think you gonna get an honest answer here.
Of course, welcome here and sure, go for the Charger 

[Aero426]

They gave him honest answers on the cuda-challenger site.     You want to sell one car to pay college bills, but then you want to build another light weight expensive car with custom parts?   Huh???   Why not finish what you've got?

Not meaning to sound rude, but those are some off the wall questions. 

[Brock Samson]

runninhorn?.. 

[Charger_Fan]

runninhorn?.. 

If that's the case, we're all gonna need a pair of these.

[69*F5*SE]

Welcome to our HAPPY home.

[PocketThunder]

runninhorn?.. 

Thats what i was thinking all along.  But Troy would have sniffed him out already so maybe he is legit.. 

Oh and welcome to the site G-man! 

How about some pictures of your car? 

[Aero426]

runninhorn?.. 

I don't believe it is runninhorn.  This fellow claims to be from down under.    That said, there are "players" all over the net.   

The boys over at cuda-challenger have asked him for pics of his pride and joy, which he has not produced for a variety of dog ate my homework reasons.    Gman, I find it hard to believe you have no pics of your project after over two years of ownership.




   

[Brock Samson]

 too bad but now everytime someone new posts on here asking questions,.. i figgure it's that tool... 

[Aero426]

too bad but now everytime someone new posts on here asking questions,.. i figgure it's that tool... 

As a group, we certainly don't want to chase people off that we don't really know.    On the other hand, there are posts and questions that just don't smell right.   

[Brock Samson]

there's a M.O.
seemingly polite,.. baiting the hook questions to lure helpful folks in... No proof of validity, ever.. 
seems I'm not the only one with the B.S. detector set to sensitive... others are on the lookout too.
It's too bad one or two bad apples make everyone wait at the airport and take off their shoes...
am I equating runninhorn with terrorists?.. you bet I am. 

[69_500]

Just a thought here, but I only have about 15 photo's of my own car, and I have had it for over 4 years now. I know I tend to take many more photo's of others cars than my own. Although if mine was going through a restoration, or work being done on it, I'd definatley be logging everything I could think of.

[69charger2002]

runninhorn?.. 

If that's the case, we're all gonna need a pair of these.

THAT is freaking HI-larious

[Magnumcharger]

Brock the hawk!!

[G-man]

Hi

Thanks for feedback again. I understand how it may feel, as there is an idiot over at cuda-challenger talking about buying a car and then never calling the owners back after wasting there time.

I didnt want to go into toomuch detail with why's and etc to waste toomuch time explaining, however seeing red lights are on (or almost on) I might aswell.

Selling a car to fund college and building 1 just as expensive... Yes that sounds ridiculous without the detail or explanation of "When".

My Challenger will be sold for College, then I want to buy a cheap running "charger or challenger" (based on all the information i have asked and trying to work out). THen I plan to drive this thing around, go to college (based on the sale of my car which cost me alot more money then the drivable 1 I plan to get as its fully restored) and when I get back from college, then I will start doing the aluminium parts to the car (or before college if finances somehow turn around).

In Short so I dont give u life history here, Made few wrong decisions financially (family did), Banks kept raising interest rates, couldnt afford, had to sell both houses and move out to the country near the farm where its much cheaper to live. Hence I dont have money to pay for college and have a fully restored vehicle either. So I must atleast finish my car to be able to be sold, then the car will take care of college, and something about 40 000 cheaper then my car, can be a driver (shabby condition) because I dont want to fully part with Mopar. So even a run down, useable vehicle for 15-25k is beter than nothing. 25k is alot less than what I will have had in mine. That way I can go college and still have a dodge.

So why am i asking about performance etc (straight line so on?) So that I dont buy a charger now, go college, come back, stick what I plan to stick in it, and realise its 2 seconds slower than a challenger. If it will be almost the same, if both can run 0-60mph in 4.0 seconds (right springs traction, gears etc) with the same power (not charger with 100hp more) then charger it is.

No not a runninghorn. Why no pics?

Cars been at the guys house past 2 years since august 2005, havent got it yet, as I said, financial problems took place. Since i dont have it, n its all under cover over there, tarps etc, im just waiting until I get it back home then i will take pics of it.

So hope that somewhat clears things up.

BTW -  I know dusters etc would be the straight performance but i cant make myself like them. Its between the 1970 Chally and 1968 Charger.

ALSO want to correct 1 thing: HP2 Said his stock 67 GTX (not charger sorry) weighed in 3450lbs with a 440BB and his 73 Challenger weighed in 3450lbs with a 318 small block. (that makes challenger weigh more) However I dont know how much diff there is between the 67 gtx and 68 charger.

[Back N Black]

there's a M.O.
seemingly polite,.. baiting the hook questions to lure helpful folks in... No proof of validity, ever.. 
seems I'm not the only one with the B.S. detector set to sensitive... others are on the lookout too.
It's too bad one or two bad apples make everyone wait at the airport and take off their shoes...
am I equating runninhorn with terrorists?.. you bet I am. 

Dave your a funny man. 

[RD]

be normal, take out student loans and grants, spend the money on your charger; THEN work a part time job, use that to pay for school...

if you want an american musclecar, you might as well pay for the american way

[miller]

Converting to a 68 to have 70 taillights.... why not get a 69 and put a 68 front end on it.... much easier!

[G-man]

Converting to a 68 to have 70 taillights.... why not get a 69 and put a 68 front end on it.... much easier!

I prefer the 70 rear end. I just like how the whole back is 1 piece not 2 like the 69. Im starting to like the 68 however... its just incase i ever decide "hey lets do it" would it be ok?

Btw, what model 68-69 is the more "classic" model (worth more so to speak)?

EG: the 70 challenger is the real deal, 71-74 are not as profound/classic as the 70. In charger terms that translates to...?

[Finn]

WOW I really need to start paying attention. All this time Ive walked to the front of 68/70 chargers to distinguish the two...never really took notice that there was a difference in the tail lights...

BAD charger owner, BAD!

[kylem4711]

Why would somebody buy a charger over a challenger?

um, cause they want to be noticed by the opposite sex....   

[kylem4711]

Sure the charger looks awesome, looks bad ass (the 68 that is) but, does it go as good as it looks or is it too heavy to waste time trying to do straight liners.

ha

[Ghoste]

If the banks lost all your family's money, I'd just worry about making some for college.  College should be priority one for you right now.  I don't know how much money you need for college or how much money you need to restore the Challenger or how much Challengers sell for in your neck of the woods but you are going to need to restore it cheaply and sell it for a LOT of money if you plan to use the profits to fund your college expenses and pay for 2nd gen Charger.

[TruckDriver]

Welcome aboard