Scrambled wires

[myk]

So, I'm looking into improving my 69's charging system.  There are a ton of things I've read about doing, however I can't even begin to understand how my current setup is even running, so I don't even know where to start.

1. Someone installed a Motocraft/Ford voltage regulator in the car, and there are 4 terminals on it labeld I, A, S, and F.  There is a yellow wire leading to the A, a white wire to the S and a black wire to the F.  Obviously none of these wires or colors matches the wiring diagrams, so I don't understand what wires do what, exactly.


2. I'm pretty sure I have a single field 'alt, seen by the round style back. Is the output stud on the outer end of the 'alt itself or is it the stud on the inside?  The reason I ask is because I thought there is only supposed to be 1 wire that leads from the output stud back to the battery.  Instead, there are 2 ring connectors on the outer stud that hold 2 wires each.  I can't even begin to tell what the colors are, let alone figure out what they do, where they go, etc.  The other stud, which is towards the center of the 'alt holds 1 single wire, but it isn't even the female connector with a green wire that I see on all other single field 'alts; the wire is brown! 

In summary, I've got the Ford 'VR and a bunch of wires that I can't determine what they do.  Where and how do I start with this?  Any advice is appreciated...

Here's a 'pic of the regulator in the car now:

[2Gunz]

I read and reread your second paragraph and have no idea what you are talking about.


But here is what I dug up for you.



The first picture is for the ford Regulator.

The second is from nacho.

Its from this post.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,39068.0.html

Hopefully this helps.

[myk]

Thanks for the diagram on the Ford 'vr.  Now, I have to figure out how those terminals play into my wire harness.  Now, am I correct in assuming that the A, S and F wires from the 'vr are hooked up to the alternator output stud?  What a mess...

[2Gunz]

The bolt style connection is the alternator voltage output.

The push on connectors will be the field wires.


IF they are all bolt style connectors the largest one will be the voltage output.
And its also prolly not an oldschool mopar alt.

I made the picture below for you.

And could all the wires be hooked up to the same place?

In a word yes.

Since most of the wires are to sense voltage or to turn the regulator on, if you just feed it power it would work.

It would destroy the whole principle behind the setup however.

Basically you would have a one wire alternator. And it would prolly be charging full tilt all the time.


Please take some pictures and post them.

[2Gunz]

You have changed your post since I posted my reply............



If A, S and F are all hooked up to the battery output of the alternator, then the regulator isnt doing anything.

It might as well not even be in the car.

So my next question......

Does the car charge at all?

[2Gunz]

Oh and get some good pictures.

[myk]

You have changed your post since I posted my reply............



If A, S and F are all hooked up to the battery output of the alternator, then the regulator isnt doing anything.

It might as well not even be in the car.

So my next question......

Does the car charge at all?

The car charges but barely.  Idling with no lights I reach 13v at the battery.  At higher rpm the car can charge at 13.4v. As soon as the lights come on it drops into the 12's.  I'm just guessing that the Ford 'vr is completely wired into the output side of the 'alt, I'm going to have to tear off the tape and see where it's all going. 
Also, the inner connector on the 'alt is not a blade but a ring type connector with a brown, not green wire.

Thanks 'Gunz for trying to help me sort this out...

[Nacho-RT74]

The bolt style connection is the alternator voltage output.

The push on connectors will be the field wires.


IF they are all bolt style connectors the largest one will be the voltage output.
And its also prolly not an oldschool mopar alt.

I made the picture below for you.

And could all the wires be hooked up to the same place?

In a word yes.

Since most of the wires are to sense voltage or to turn the regulator on, if you just feed it power it would work.

It would destroy the whole principle behind the setup however.

Basically you would have a one wire alternator. And it would prolly be charging full tilt all the time.


Please take some pictures and post them.

Hi 2gunz... can you send me that pic unedited ?

[Nacho-RT74]

BTW, several ppl down here uses the PHORD regulators and modules on Mopars, and never have noticed any substancial change. never paid attention on how they are wired, since I simply remove, trash and make a good job with the right parts

[2Gunz]

Here you go.

[Plumcrazy]

Ford alternators use a "Y" type electrical windings in their stator, therefore there is a stator connection on the alternator. The stator voltage is what the voltage regulator monitors to control the alternator output.

Chrysler and GM alternators use delta type stator windings which means they have no stator connection.  I don't know how people are making Ford regulators work with Chrysler alternators. 

I do remember the "I' terminal was for the indicator light. the "F" terminal was for the field connection and the "S" terminal was for the stator connection.
The "A" connectiom was probably the battery feed.

Why not just start all over with a complete Chrysler system.
Or upgrade to a modern alternator.  http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=5225

[myk]

That's not a bad idea.  Rather than trying to figure out what previous owners have done with this car I think it'd be easier to tear out the existing harness and replace it with a new one pre-wired for upgraded 'alts, and install something like that Mancini kit.  I would like more than 60 amps though, as I plan to run fans as well.

As for that Ford 'vr, I'm almost certain that the A, S and F terminals are all hooked up to the output of my current 'alt.  I....just don't get that, and I'm trying to figure out what wires in the original harness were spliced into those 3 Ford ones...

[2Gunz]

I agree, I would just ditch that junk and start over with an upgrade.


Allot of people sell after market upgrades.

I however would stick with some of the upgrades that can be purchased at your
local auto parts store.

[Nacho-RT74]

Here you go.

thanks...this will help to make a guide to upgrade a single field on to double field alt.

As you can see, you have on that alt a drilled hole on opposite side of grounded brush. That hole is used to mount there a brush isolator and the propper brush and VOILA!!! got a double field from a single field

[2Gunz]

Well If you need better or different pictures of it let me know.

I still have it around here someplace.

[2Gunz]

And since we are in the same sort of buisness....

I might even take it to work and light it with a Martin Mac 2K for you.   

[Nacho-RT74]

And since we are in the same sort of buisness....

I might even take it to work and light it with a Martin Mac 2K for you.   

LOL, actually I work with ROBE fixtures, even I have played with Martin, and in fact I was Martin seller once.

[2Gunz]

Pretty much the standard here is Mac 2K profiles and washes.

Ive never even seen a Robe.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Your wiring sounds like a good reason to call YO or Evans and get a new engine wiring harness with pre made dual field / electronic ignition conversions and mount up a mopar regulator.

[myk]

I'm seriously considering doing just that; putting in a new harness.  I did that myself 10 years ago and I could easily do it again.  I am also considering rewiring the whole damn car because having everything repaired or replaced on these things while neglecting the electrics is just dumb on my part. I'd love to see this car perform with a new Ron Francis or Painless kit.  Only problem is, I don't even understand how electrical systems work, so it's hard to imagine rewiring my own car, lol...

[myk]

Well, I figured out what was going on with the wiring, and even managed to hook up the stronger dual field 'alt and 70's style regulator.  The car is charging and performing better than since I've owned it, electrically speaking.  Well, maybe a little too good.

I was passing up a semi the other night and when I got in front of him, the driver blew his horn, flashed his highs a few times and then left them on as I drove away. 

A few nights later, I was escorting my buddy, who was driving his less-than-reliable '63 Continental.  We pulled over for some gas and he gets out and starts sreaming at me about blinding him with my brights on.  I told him that I didn't have the brights on and had to prove it to him.

I'm not complaining about my newfound headlight power, but I haven't even done the headlight relay 'mod yet, my light harnesses are practically turning into dust and I'm already blinding people.  What can I say, other than hurray for me!