Engine has moved into its new home... Update 31/7-2010 Page 4...

[Mefirst]

  Ron

What can I say, I'm a masochist I should have bought a new carb in the first place. This old piece of ... has already cost me the same as a new one. But my masochistic tendencies forbids me to do the easy thing and buy a new E85 carb, so I'm gonna battle this thing out, even if it drives me insane...

Then again on a positive note, I have managed to narrow it down (with some help) to these 3 issues.

I also have to say this. If your planing on E85, do NOT bother with the conversion kits, save yourself allot of time and headache and buy a ready made carb...

Thus endeth the seremony..

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 29/3

I probably wouldn't write this cause it will probably Jinx the good luck I had today...

I changed out to larger squirter nozzles on the carb, and Lo and Behold the engine responded well to this. The bog is gone. Then again these nozzles are way to large, so I'm gonna buy a set of smaller ones and see what works out best.. Any way Im happy that I found the cause of the bog and at the moment there seems to be hope that I can take my ride outside this summer...

Another thing to. It has been a good learning expirience, even though it has sucked something major. I now have a good, well at least a better understanding to the tuning secrets of a Holley Dominator carburetor...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 2/5

Well I retired the old Dominator. Found a new Dominator for sale and bought it, put the E85 conversion stuff on it.. Worked out GREAT!!!

Problem I had with the old one was that I could not change out the air bleeds.

Any way. Took the Charger to the Car Inspection today and it got a clean paper so now its road legal again

Still encounterd a weird engine issue, from time to time the engine did not run right.. Took some time but I did figure out the cause, its a bad fuel regulator. The regulator does not keep the fuel pressure at a constant level.. So Im gonna buy a new and higher quality regulator than the China crap one I have right now...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Finally some good news for a change ! 

No doubt any carb that runs e-85 needs adjustable bleeds to dial in the fuel curve. 

Good work Tom ! 



Ron

[Mefirst]

  Ron

Yeah, the new model HP Dominator (Part # 0-8896-1) made my life allot easier I still have to mount the A/F meter/gauge to get the carb dialled in.. I'm not convinced that the air bleeds that came in the conversion kit are spot on the correct size..

Cant even explane what a difference the new carb made, the throttle response comes immediately and the engine pulls even better than it did before.. Gonna be such a blast when I get my ride out to the track at the end of this month and after al this time spent in the garage finally be able to see what she has to give...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 8/5 and not with a happy note...

The problems...

In 1st gear it pulls kinda OK, but in 2nd and 3rd there is some major hesitation and it just doesn't pull.. I can run it nicely under 3000rpm in 2nd and 3rd but over that, no go... Think I need to go down in jet size, the car just stinks of fuel. Weird part is when I asked what to do on a E85 forum I was told to go up in jet size, it just doesn't make any sense By the way it stinks of fuel I need to go down... The struggle continues...

I even went as far that I bought an A/F meter. Sadly I managed to mess up something when I mounted it into the car Need to recheck the wiring again..

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Tom, it sounds like you are getting closer 

I'm wondering if the high speed air bleeds might need some tweaking....from what you're describing ? I have to say you're one persistant SOB when it comes to that E-85. 

Keep at it buddy ! 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Ron

The air bleeds have come to mind, but problem is what to do?? Going up will lean the carb out, going down will make it more rich. And then its the main fuel jets to take into consideration...

Its like trying to put a puzzle together with eyes blindfolded, hands tied behind the back, and just trying to figure out what piece goes where by licking them...

I really should seek professional help, this is not sane any more..

I cant even explane how bummed out I feel. Its like uphill al the way. I fix one issue, then find out I have 3 new ones.. -Why doesn't it ever stop???

After the mess with trying to hook up the A/F meter/gauge I really thought about just giving up. Only thing I think keeps me sane is that I can get away from the car when I'm at work, though my thoughts still keep wandering back to it, trying to figure out what the hell to do next...

Ill keep at it for a while longer, but if things don't start to work out, well I will just give up and ... any one who says I have not tried and given it my best...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Tom, is there anybody around there with a Chassis dyno and wideband O2 sensor ? If it were mine....i'd be looking to get it on a chassis dyno to see what the fuel curve looks like. 

I can sense your frustration but you've come waaaay too far to give up now. 

You absolutely have to make a pass this year....a case of Heinekin is riding on it. 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Yeah. I have found a shop that has a chassis dyno and thats my back up plan. Then again if I could just manage to hook up the A/F meter/gauge system that would give me more or less the same information I need to figure out what I need to do with the carb.

True, there is the beer bet. It would be a shame not to "race" for it, I dont think you want to win by a "Walkover"..

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Just a short note. I think I have managed to narrow down the potential cause of the issue the carb has...

It seems that the carb leans out during mid range Rpm. That would explane the major hesitation and occasional exhaust backfiring in 2nd and 3rd at mid Rpm. If this theory holds, the intermediate circuit needs to be tuned richer.

I'm gonna try going down in the intermediate air bleed size and also try out larger main jets. This does seem weird though cause it still does seem to be on the rich side at idle, it really stinks of fuel, but right now this is the only explanation I can think of... Once I get it to work in the mid and high rpm range, then I can always go back and try to tune out the overly rich idle, by leaning out (go up in size) the Idle air bleed... Then again I really need to get the A/F meter working, that would help allot to diagnose where the problem is. Right now I'm more or less guessing and just trying to narrow it down...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 16/5

(Just a note. My theory in my previous post turned out that I was totally wrong, today proved it.. But I'm learning..)

Well spent the day in the garage. Been tuning the carb al day and I have to say, I'm Happy

Sadly I did not get it to run perfect, but I'm close..

This is where I started.

Main jets. 99 front 98 secondary
Idle air bleed 42
Intermediate Air bleed 63
Hi-Speed air bleed 28

Fuel pressure 6.5 Psi

With this combination there was major hesitation over 25-3000Rpm and up. The A/F meter showed it was running way to rich. (A/F meter is showing GASOLINE numbers, so they need to be converted to E85, I'm to lazy to do that right now!)

At idle A/F was 12.8-13.5 (The stupid gauge jumps a little) At WOT the AF dropped down to 9.6-10.2 and the engine just did not pull. Sputters and backfires though the exhaust, again proving its running way to rich...

Started to fiddle around with the Air bleeds.

First change was to go down in Intermediate air bleed to 35. I tried this cause of info from another forum (Not gonna give any names) but this was a total fiasco, which I kinda guessed before I even tried it. The already rich mix became even more rich...

Next thing was to go up in intermediate air bleed size and lo and behold the carb response at mid range RPM got allot better.
Started out with bleed 67 and al the way up to 76 and there was an unbelievable difference. I got mostly rid of the mid range Rpm hesitation. AF showed in the range of 12.4-13.2 up to some 4500Rpm.

Next problem came in the high range Rpm. Now it was rich there. AF dropped down to 9.8. Went progressively up in air bleed size and got the best throttle response with size 36 air bleed. Tried 38 but then got backfires through the carb, so it went to lean at high Rpm.

So to sum up. Had a good day. The tuning is not yet spot on, but close and allot better than it was before. Ill continue later on. I still need to try changing the main jets and see what happens and continue to search for the right main jet and air bleed combo...

To sum up.

Main jets front 99, secondary 98
Idle air bleed 42
Intermediate air bleed 76
Hi-Speed air bleed 36

I am still debating should I mod the 3-circuit carb I have into a 2-circuit. But right now I'm not so shore. I think with time and patience, Ill find the right combo so at the moment I don't see any reason to do a major change to the carb setup.

And also a note. The Dominator carbs are NOT user friendly, you do need to know a thing or two about how it works, the tuning possibilities are almost endless with a Dominator. So if you want to keep your life stress free and with out headaches, use the 4150 carb. But I do believe a Dominator tuned well and with patience, it will out perform a 4150 carb any day and twice on Sundays...


/Tom

[firefighter3931]

Wow, that's a lot of fiddle f**king to dial in the carb !  Tom you are a saint for sticking with the program 

The 3 circuit is a better choice for a street/strip ride....no doubt about it. The 2 circuit Dommy's are just like an on-off switch...idle and wide open. You definately need the 3 circuit if you hope to cruise with some semblance of normalcy on the street at part throttle. 

Keep at it man...you're getting much closer ! 



Ron

[Mefirst]

  Ron

-Yeah. I have to say that never in my wildest dreams did I think tuning a carb to run would be this complicated But still, though it sucks something major, I'm also learning a lot of new stuff, so I try to only look at the positive side of things..

The thought about redoing the 3-circuit to 2-circuit was cause I stumbled across a couple of threads about how that would save you from allot of headache.. I do understand that you may benefit from that mod. if running an al out race car, but on the street/strip car, not so much...

I can say that the engines personality changed drastically after to days tuning session. Now sounds and behaves totally different in a really positive way. It pulls hard and the rews go up almost instantly. Its like a 2-stroke dirtbike. Scared the hell out of me a couple of times. Then again over there in the "Colonies", you can go to a track to tune, over here we tune by running WOT pulls inside a parking garage. From one end to the other its only about 130 feet and I have to stand HARD on the brakes, so I don't go through the wall at the other end I dont have time, mostly taking into concideration my own safety or the balls, to pull into 2nd gear...

I really should do a video of my test and tune runs in the garage, so you can see how Hardcore Racers do some serious T&T Problem is that there is no industrial area close by my garage, with a good straight road, where I could test the car, and I don't want to mess around in the middle of traffic...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 17/5

You who have been interested reading about my carburetor tuning adventure/battle (may be I should not even write this, Ill just Jinx everything ), any way...

In my previous post, I wrote about fiddling about with the Air bleeds. I got those tuned in rather well..

Today's project was trying out different Main fuel jets..

First jet combo I tried.. Main jet # 94 and secondary # 97

..and -HOLLY "..insert any bad or nice word here.." I just happend to hit the MOTHER LOAD with this jet combo

A/F at idle is a tad better 13.5-14.2 at WOT 12.0-12.5 (these are GASOLINE A/F numbers, I'm still to lazy to convert them to E85 ratio)

OK, now to the interesting and good news.... The engine pulls like a rabid RHINO.. I promise, I almost wet my pants, when I hit the throttle hard (WOT) from a standstill and let her rip and pulled into 2nd.. I just did NOT have the balls to pull into 3rd.. The car was al over the damn two lane road... It pulled so hard... It is just VIOLENT!!!

I cant even explane how happy I am right now.. I'm celebrating this day by drinking a cold one, so 

/Tom

[tan top]

thats great ..finaly got it  carb dialed in     need a video of that thing running    ........

  awesome stuff 

[Mefirst]

... need a video of that thing running    ........

-I promise as soon as I have a little time over to spend, Ill make a video of the car running...

/Tom

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Can't wait to see that video Tom. Sounds like a bunch of fun!

[Hemidog]

You deserved it Tom, can't wait for a video!

[Mefirst]

You deserved it Tom, can't wait for a video!

Ill see what I can do...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Update 27/5

Well like I wrote in one of my earlier posts about my success, I have jinxed it...

Problems right now are, the the carb is overflowing and a failing fuel pressure issue, reasons yet to be determined..

The reasons aren't that many.. Here is what I have come up with..

Stuck needles. Either because of bad machining or casting. There may be some additive in the E85 fuel over here, that causes the needles to stick, when the car is unused for some days. (Ethanol evaporates quite fast)

Then the utterly dumb reasons, and I kind a guess this is where Ill find the problem.

The stupid little liquid filled fuel pressure gauge is the reason. When the engine is cold it shows 6 Psi pressure, but once warm the liquid inside the gauge starts to "boil" and the "pressure" reading drops. Then I believe in the gauge reading, turn up the pressure again according to what the gauge shows (even though in reality the pressure is spot on) and now the pressure is way up into the stratosphere and the needles cant cope with the pressure and there for overflows the carb..

Ill have to deal with this issue come Friday, work is keeping me away from the garage.. This is just so typical, first race this season is this incoming weekend, and I have absolutely no time to fiddle about. Thought I had the car ready 2 weeks ago, but -No, it still just keeps on fighting me al the way...

/Tom

[firefighter3931]

The stupid little liquid filled fuel pressure gauge is the reason. When the engine is cold it shows 6 Psi pressure, but once warm the liquid inside the gauge starts to "boil" and the "pressure" reading drops. Then I believe in the gauge reading, turn up the pressure again according to what the gauge shows (even though in reality the pressure is spot on) and now the pressure is way up into the stratosphere and the needles cant cope with the pressure and there for overflows the carb..

Tom, that is not an uncommon problem with the liquid filled guages....just set the pressure with the engine cold and trust it. 

You should consider changing the oil as well....it's most likely contaminated from flooding and you don't want to ruin the rings. 



Ron

[Mefirst]

Update 30/5

Well the mad, late into the night, final tuning session went bust.. So no racing this weekend

Turns out my excitement was joy to early. The engine runs good at low and mid rpm, problem comes at higher rpm. Only thing I can think of after al the carb tuning Ive done, is that the problem is NOT with the carb, its the fuel system needs a serious upgrade. I knew al along it was at the edge of its performance, but last night proved with out a doubt, that the fuel system is not up to the task, to feed the "animal" living under the hood..

This is my plan.

Return style fuel system. Perhaps even a fuel pump upgrade, havent decided yet. Either put a fuel cell in the trunk or weld a sump to the stock fuel tank. 1/2" or 5/8" fuel lines.

Another thing I noticed is that the Tach output terminal in my MSD ign. box might have taken a dump OR there is a ground or some kind of electrical gremlin, that causes totally weird RPM numbers. At half throttle the gauge shows the engine is turning some 6000Rpm. -Yes, the engine does rew like a 2-stroke, but that it pulls close to 6000Rpm at half throttle

Ive also made the decision to take some time away from the car/garage. I just don't have the energy any more, specially now because I did not make it to the race. I'm so bummed out... Ive been working on my car almost non stop for the last 3 months, so I think this will be a good time to take a break and do something else for a while...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

-Oh Yes. The carb flooding was caused because of that stupid 1" liquid filled pressure gauge.. IF you have one mounted at the regulator. Set the pressure when engine is cold. Then LEAVE IT BE WHAT EVER PRESSURE IT MAY SHOW WHEN THE ENGINE IS WARM. The liquid inside the gauge will get warm and then the gauge shows erratic numbers...

/Tom

[Mefirst]

Short note...

OK, so Ive decided to completely rebuild the fuel system.. This is my plan.

Fuel cell in the trunk 16gal.
AN12 lines to the pump, my choice of pump is a MagnaFuel 275 pump + return line.
AN10 lines to carb

IF the engine is not happy with this, then I have NO idea what to do... Ive also decided to not stress with getting the car to the track this season.
-I dont see any idea to go racing, if the car does not work properly..

/Tom