Which is a Better Engine?

[SmashingPunkFan]

A 426 Hemi?

Or a 440? 

For gas Mileage? and for just plain BadAss Strength?   

I've heard that the 426 Hemi actually has more Horsepower than the 440... is it true?

Where would be a good place to find info like this... well I mean besides here! lol 

I'm kinda new to Dodge Chargers, but want to know EVERYTHING I can about them, especially before I buy one.

Thank You for all the help!

[Brock Samson]

well welcome to the site , but if your first question is about gas milage you may want to reconcider your choice of vehicles... 

[69bronzeT5]

Heres some info for you on the engines.

440 Magnum
Piston Displacement:  440 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.32" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  375 @ 4600rpm
Torque: 480 @ 3200


426 HEMI
Piston Displacement:  426 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.25" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  425 @ 5000rpm
Torque: 490 @ 4000


Do keep in mind....Hemi's are WAY more expensive to buy and also, the parts for them are WAY more.

[MoParMetal]

Heres some info for you on the engines.

440 Magnum
Piston Displacement:  440 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.32" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  375 @ 4600rpm
Torque: 480 @ 3200


426 HEMI
Piston Displacement:  426 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.25" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  425 @ 5000rpm
Torque: 490 @ 4000


Do keep in mind....Hemi's are WAY more expensive to buy and also, the parts for them are WAY more.

come on man. you know those hp and torque numbers are way under rated.


by the way. 383 blocks are a little bit stronger than a 440 block.

[69bronzeT5]

Heres some info for you on the engines.

440 Magnum
Piston Displacement:  440 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.32" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  375 @ 4600rpm
Torque: 480 @ 3200


426 HEMI
Piston Displacement:  426 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.25" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  425 @ 5000rpm
Torque: 490 @ 4000


Do keep in mind....Hemi's are WAY more expensive to buy and also, the parts for them are WAY more.

come on man. you know those hp and torque numbers are way under rated.

Straight from the 1969 Dodge info packets

[SmashingPunkFan]

Thanks for the info, all of you!

But I've already considered, with gas RISING all the time, that this car is gas KILLING machine, and is going to need a new loan every weekend for a fill up! lol


But my dream Dodge Charger, the one that got me started, is the one from the fast and the furious.
I know having one like that, is 1ST: probably not street legal in any state. And 2ND: Unaffordable.

But I want to get all the muscle under the hood possible. And I've heard a lot about different engines, and sizes, I just want the Most power

Opinions? Thanx

Thank you all for your help!

[JimShine]

The Fast and Furious Charger didn't have a very impressive engine in it. The blower and fancy looking stuff on it was all fake. You can build the same car with whatever you want for an engine and have the fake blower make it appear mean, just like the real one. If you are real inventive, you can even fabricate a rig to make it pop wheelies like they used in the movie.

[Brock Samson]

  So,..  you build a replica of black and blowns' car, and then hide a slant 6 under the blower...

so what's the problem?.. 

[SmashingPunkFan]

Okay.

Well in your opinion, what is the BEST engine available for this ride?


For gas salvage A.K.A. Gas mileage? (I know it's not realistic, but there is some number out there)
Strongest?
Replacing parts difficulty? like are they hard to find?




Which is the strongest out there? 

And where can you order one at? Like a 426 Hemi?
Or do you have to find them?, or can you still order crate engines for them?



Tahnk you! 

[MoParMetal]

Heres some info for you on the engines.

440 Magnum
Piston Displacement:  440 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.32" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  375 @ 4600rpm
Torque: 480 @ 3200


426 HEMI
Piston Displacement:  426 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.25" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  425 @ 5000rpm
Torque: 490 @ 4000


Do keep in mind....Hemi's are WAY more expensive to buy and also, the parts for them are WAY more.

come on man. you know those hp and torque numbers are way under rated.

Straight from the 1969 Dodge info packets

pffffffft didn't you know chrysler engineers purposely rated them at lower numbers to mess with gm and ford?

[69bronzeT5]

Okay.

Well in your opinion, what is the BEST engine available for this ride?
I would go for a 440


Replacing parts difficulty? like are they hard to find?
440s should be too hard to find stuff for. Hemis are wayyy harder. For a pair of repro Hemi valve covers..its about 900. For a used Hemi air cleaner...they can go anywhere from 800-1800.

And where can you order one at? Like a 426 Hemi?
You can not order a 426 Hemi. You would have to get lucky to find a used one for sale...but you would be paying an arm and a leg for it.

Or do you have to find them?, or can you still order crate engines for them?
Various companys sell them. Just do a search on google for Mopar crate engines. And yes, you can order a variety of sizes of crate engines.



Tahnk you! 

[69bronzeT5]

Heres some info for you on the engines.

440 Magnum
Piston Displacement:  440 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.32" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  375 @ 4600rpm
Torque: 480 @ 3200


426 HEMI
Piston Displacement:  426 cu. in
Bore and stroke:  4.25" x 3.75"
Compression ratio:  10.25 to 1
Horsepower:  425 @ 5000rpm
Torque: 490 @ 4000


Do keep in mind....Hemi's are WAY more expensive to buy and also, the parts for them are WAY more.

come on man. you know those hp and torque numbers are way under rated.

Straight from the 1969 Dodge info packets

pffffffft didn't you know chrysler engineers purposely rated them at lower numbers to mess with gm and ford?

Just trying to give him an idea of the numbers. I dont know the EXACT numbers. Do you

[MoParMetal]

Hemis were actually at 550.

340s i think they were 320+.

the rest i believe were just a bit above their actual numbers

[SmashingPunkFan]

Thank you all!

Okay, though various answers.

Everyone, post what your ideal engine would be, and why?

And what year you would put it in, and version.

I'm just trying to find whats right, and the best way I think to do that, is to ask what you'd do.

Thank you all again!

[69bronzeT5]

It depends on the amount of cash I/you have. I would get a base XP '69, put a 440 in it but do some work to the 440 such as upgrades. BUT if I had a really good sized budget, I would find a '69 R/T without a motor and stick a 512 crate engine in it or something like that.

[MoParMetal]

Thank you all!

Okay, though various answers.

Everyone, post what your ideal engine would be, and why?

And what year you would put it in, and version.

I'm just trying to find whats right, and the best way I think to do that, is to ask what you'd do.

Thank you all again!

i got 2 motors im going to build.

383 stroked to 451. indy 440-1 heads. maybe a roller cam. a single 4 barrel. backed by an auto. in a 71 Duster. My wife's car.

440 stroked to 500. indy 440-1 heads. hydraulic roller. fuel injection six pak style. backed by a 5 speed. in my 71 "Bee-Tona"

it all depends on what you're going to do with the car. what are you looking to do?

[2Gunz]

If your really looking for MPG I think your out of luck.


Prolly the best option would be a new school hemi out of a wrecked something.


It would get better gas mileage than any of the old stuff and still have some ass to it.

But that also is allot more complicated to put together.

[mally69]

You can do anyhting you want, build anything you want, at any power level. All you have to have is LOTS OF MONEY. Just go out and buy the parts, they are all available.  If you built a mild built 440 with around 450 Hp with around 510 ft.lbs.tq. that would impress the heck out of you, beleive me. And to buy a hemi crate engine, the cheapest one starts at 13,500 bucks    And you could build one heck of a stroked wedge for that price. There is MUCH more to it than just dropping a huge engine into a car, depends on how serious you want to get.

[Troy]

If you're looking for good mileage and an affordable engine then put in a modern 5.9 Magnum. These are truck engines, have a lot of low end torque, are relatively cheap, and easy to find with low miles. If you keep the fuel injection (or switch to another EFI) you can easily get 20+ mpg. You won't likely win any races without doing some modifications ($$$) but it will have more than enough power to get you around town. You can also find running 383s for not much money and they will definitely get a Charger moving just fine. You gas mileage will likely drop to 12-15 though. Step up to a built 440, a Hemi, or any sort of stroker and you better not worry about the price of gas because the engine will drain your pocketbook before you even need to fill the tank. Remember that you'll also need to run high octane (premium) fuel but the 5.9 will run on 87 octane all day long.

Troy

[John_Kunkel]

I've driven them all and I've always thought the stock Street Hemi was a disappointment. For it's rated horsepower it's not all that more impressive on the old buttmeter than a 440 Magnum.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Well I'm very very glad you all posted your opinions, and I will keep them all in mind.

I was just looking to see if any one knew of the numbers, like the mileage and stuff.

I've already known for the entire time I wanted this car, that is does not use gas, it KILLS IT!!!!!!!!! lol


I just want to know now what you all would, or did put in yours?

Thank you all for your help!

[69bronzeT5]

or did put in yours?

I put a 383 in my '69

[69bronzeT5]

Hemis were actually at 550.

Hemi's were 425...with a bit of tuning, they could hit 440-450hp....not 550

[MoParMetal]

Hemis were actually at 550.

Hemi's were 425...with a bit of tuning, they could hit 440-450hp....not 550

whatever makes you happy.

[mally69]

I was told that they were actually 465 hp and the new 426 hemi crate motors are rated at 465 and are supposed to be built the same as the origional.  Thats what I was told.

[BlaineKaiser450]

im evenutually gonna put a hemi crate motor into a 68-70 charger, but 1st i gotta find a charger in my budget that would be a good cantadate (sp?)

[firefighter3931]

Hemis were actually at 550.

Hemi's were 425...with a bit of tuning, they could hit 440-450hp....not 550

Yep, getting 440-450 HP out of a stock Hemi was pretty good back in the day.....and required lots of tuning with the carbs and ignition curve. The mild cam that was used to detune the street engines really mellowed them out. 


Ron

[Troy]

im evenutually gonna put a hemi crate motor into a 68-70 charger, but 1st i gotta find a charger in my budget that would be a good cantadate (sp?)

The words "Hemi" and "budget" do not belong in the same sentence. Seriously, many guys here have less in their entire car than what it costs to build and install a Hemi (I'm one of them). I sold off most all of my Hemi parts and decided I'd rather have a second car (ok, sixth car). It can be done, but it's a heck of a lot harder of you're pinching pennies.

Troy

[SmashingPunkFan]

Okay.

Well in your opinion, what is the BEST engine available for this ride?
I would go for a 440


Replacing parts difficulty? like are they hard to find?
440s should be too hard to find stuff for. Hemis are wayyy harder. For a pair of repro Hemi valve covers..its about 900. For a used Hemi air cleaner...they can go anywhere from 800-1800.

And where can you order one at? Like a 426 Hemi?
You can not order a 426 Hemi. You would have to get lucky to find a used one for sale...but you would be paying an arm and a leg for it.

Or do you have to find them?, or can you still order crate engines for them?
Various companys sell them. Just do a search on google for Mopar crate engines. And yes, you can order a variety of sizes of crate engines.



Tahnk you! 

Cool. Do you by chance have a site you would recommend? for repro parts? etc?

I found this site for metal replacement parts etc... http://autometaldirect.com/index.php

Thank you all!!   

[Rolling_Thunder]

most people who think the hemi made 550hp are confusing the street hemi with the race hemi...     I think if the street hemi had the same wicked cam the race hemi did with tuning it could make close to 550

[SmashingPunkFan]

Anyone know of any good sites for Charger parts?

Thanx

PEACE.

[Brock Samson]

as i told you via PM your gonna need to do a lot of reading on this site using the search function, but stay away from the off topic and the comedy section cause the guys who post there are freakin nuts. 

[Ghoste]

And merciless.

[69bronzeT5]

but stay away from the off topic and the comedy section cause the guys who post there are freakin nuts. 

Have you looked at your stats lately Dave

"General Discussion  4483
Off Topic Discussion  3424
Aero Cars  302
The Lighter Side  150
General Q&A  108
Interior  97
Paint, Body & Trim  92
Chassis, Suspension, Brakes, Wheels, & Tires  81
Engine, Transmission, Rearend, & Exhaust  52
Electric, Gauges, & Lights  47 "

[mally69]

69bronzeT5
Old Timer

Posts: 5,325




Beware of the post whore........

[Jon Smith]

If hemis really made 550 horsepower then why didn't they go any quicker than 13s at best?
60s HP figures are all over the place... the introduction of SAE horsepower in 72 was probably an attempt o set a standard

[mally69]

If hemis really made 550 horsepower then why didn't they go any quicker than 13s at best?
60s HP figures are all over the place... the introduction of SAE horsepower in 72 was probably an attempt o set a standard

good point, but I beleive there is a guy either here or moparts that has a stock hemi that is turning high 12's ..

[superduperbee]

most people who think the hemi made 550hp are confusing the street hemi with the race hemi...     I think if the street hemi had the same wicked cam the race hemi did with tuning it could make close to 550

One of my buddys picked up an original unrestored 65 Hemi Coronet S/S with aluminum front end and race hemi. Engine dynoed right around 600 hp before sending off for rebuild.

[Death1970Proof]

I agree with lots said here. Keep in mind for the price of a hemi you can have a SICK fast 440 that would eat a hemi.  Or get a 400 block and stroke it to a 451 and be a little lighter than a 440. Probably best bang for the buck there. The 383 and 400's are much stronger in the main webs as well. There's a ton of options but as far as hemi goes Id forget about obtaining one, to expensive along with any part that goes on them.

Want a screamin high winding powerhouse?? How about a 383 with a nice solid cam and a set of Indy heads 

I may get flogged for this as well, but I happen to be a small block guy. They are the way to go for less weight on the front end (better handling)and you can use a beefed 904 instead of the 727. 727's takes close to 50hp to turn. 904's take about 25hp. 318's which are usually give away engines (Free if you move them!)  can be punched/stroked to 390 cubes. Or how about a 360 pushing 408 cubes 

Just my 

[SmashingPunkFan]

They are the way to go for less weight on the front end (better handling)and you can use a beefed 904 instead of the 727. 727's takes close to 50hp to turn. 904's take about 25hp.

I'm sorry, and I'll say again. I'm fairly new to Chargers, I love them, and what to know ALL that I can about them.
I don't mean to sound stupid, or have a stupid question, but you don't know unless you ask?.... and the best place to ask I've found so far is on here, cause you guys know TONS!!! 

But what is the difference between these Trannys?   
The 904? and the 727?
Like which is the 4spd?
Which of them is the manual tran?

I'm sorry, I feel stupid asking a question like this, but you got to ask to find out some how.

[Ghoste]

Not stupid.  904 was a lighter duty trans used behind smallblocks.  The 727 was heavier duty and used mainly behind big blocks although there was a smallblock version.  The 833 is the four speed.  There's more but consider that a basic.

[Death1970Proof]

They are the way to go for less weight on the front end (better handling)and you can use a beefed 904 instead of the 727. 727's takes close to 50hp to turn. 904's take about 25hp.

I'm sorry, and I'll say again. I'm fairly new to Chargers, I love them, and what to know ALL that I can about them.
I don't mean to sound stupid, or have a stupid question, but you don't know unless you ask?.... and the best place to ask I've found so far is on here, cause you guys know TONS!!! 

But what is the difference between these Trannys?   
The 904? and the 727?
Like which is the 4spd?
Which of them is the manual tran?

I'm sorry, I feel stupid asking a question like this, but you got to ask to find out some how.

Hey, No problem! We are here to help! We didnt know what we know without asking somebody!

The 904 is the standard duty automatic commonly used behind 318 powered cars. Not as strong as a 727 stock but it can be beefed up to be everybit as strong or stronger than a 727. Only takes about half the power to turn also. The 904 has a shorther tailshaft than the 727. A 904 will not fit behind a big block...

If you have a big block car with an automatic, It's a 727. There are two basic versions. One was used behind small blocks and the other was for big blocks.  The difference being the bb trans of course has a larger bellhousing than the sb trans. The guts are fully interchangeable between the two however. To my knowledge all 340 cars were equipped with the 727 trans to handle the extra power they produced. Some 318' vehicles did use the 727 in heavy duty applications such as trucks,vans,taxi's,and 4x4's trucks as well. Many 360' vehicles had the 727 as well. My old '76 plymouth fury patrol car had a 360/727 in it. Of course the tail shaft length is longer than the 904. The 727 is considered by many to be the toughest trans made. 

As far as four speeds go you had a few. You had a basic A833 4 speed that had a 23 spline input. Some '69 mopars used an 833 that used a larger clutch if I can recall which I believe were used in the hemi cars and 69.5 superbee's and roadrunners w/ the 440 six pack. Someone will have to chime in here and help but I  believe it was an 18 spline unit that had an 11 inch clutch to where the other trans used a 10.5 clutch.  Some cars used a 3 speed trans as well which I think was called an A230. In the mid 70's there was an a833 overdrive trans released as well. Great for economy but many would dislike them for performane because of the gap between the gears. Just  Hope this helps...

[SmashingPunkFan]

Cool, thanks you guys for the help!!

But hey, if anyone else wants to add what they think, then do


So, I think I may have this. I'm wanting to get a 1970 Dodge Charger R/T, if I find one in whatever condition it may be
To run through the options, I have what choices a for a manual transmission?

Because I've decided that's the tranny I want. Automatic is what most of them seem to already have, so... 


Thanks again guys, this is the one place I've learned the most about Chargers. Big help, really big help.

[Ghoste]

If you want an RT, it means it came stock with a 440 (the 440 Six Pack and the 426 Street Hemi were both optional in the RT) and this defaults to a 727 if it's an automatic or an 833 if it's a four speed.  Those were the only two transmission choices for the RT.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Awesome.

So 833, and the 727 are the onlyTransmissions for the R/T. Cool.

Thanks! 

[mally69]

Also, don't fear having an auto. The 727 is a bulletproof tranny, and also with the correct stall convertor etc.. can make the car hook up and be way more consistent if you take it to the track. 4 speeds are just cool and fun to drive but also put alot more stress on drive line parts..

[SmashingPunkFan]

Yeah, auto's are cool, but I feel like when your gonna be driving that much HP, you need COMPLETE CONTROL over the engine.

I've driven both. The only time when I like auto, is when theres a lot of other people in the car. But manny is just... I don't know... it's like your holding the engine in the palm of your hands.


I'm just gonna have to look for tranny parts then.


Thanks again!

[SmashingPunkFan]

Oh... I'm sorry, but another stupid question emerges from me again.

Okay, I found a website that sales brand new crate Hemi 426s http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/426hemcratmo.html


Here's the question, crate trannys? is it possible?

any places maybe even selling used rebuilt ones?

Just curious, cause I'm really thinking about going for the 833...

[Ghoste]

For a manual try Brewers or Passon, they both sell rebuild four speeds.  For rebuilt automatics there are a large number of suppliers.  No "crate" tranny's as far as I think you mean (new cases etc.), just rebuilt.

[SmashingPunkFan]

Okay, cool.



Thanks!