Balance guy tells me Mopars are sloppy motors?

[1969chargerrtse]

I've always always loved the Mopar styling and power of the Muscle car years , but must admit to owning more GM cars than Mopars so I'm in a learning stage as time goes by.  I dropped my crank, rods, pistons and all the parts to have the motor correctly balanced.  The balance guy that has been doing this stuff forever tells me 1 rod was 18grams light compared to the others? In turn he had a lot of work to do to make everything the way it should be.  He said for Mopar this is understandable. He said the crank has all kinds of metal flash on it and that if you're not careful carrying it you can cut your hands.  Wow, never heard this stuff before?  He said Yep, Mopars back then were just sloppy,  motor related during assy.  He has nothing at all against them and has no favorite of another make, just telling me thats just the way it was. Hmmm, you guy ever hear stuff like this?

[73chgrSE]

All I know is everybody loves to slam them with various negative comments like that but sloppy or not a 426 hemi still made the most power!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

He said the crank has all kinds of metal flash on it and that if you're not careful carring it you can cut your hands.

Flash on the crank?    Forged cranks shouldnt have casting flash should they?

[Charger-Bodie]

A mechanic that negitive towards ANY particular brand is a good one to stay away from. IMO 

[histoy]

Not a crankshaft expert myself, but I've seen other posts on this site that state forged cranks have a heavier parting line flash then cast cranks.   That's suppose to be an easy way to identify them.   

[1969chargerrtse]

Not a crankshaft expert myself, but I've seen other posts on this site that state forged cranks have a heavier parting line flash then cast cranks.   That's suppose to be an easy way to identify them.   

Yes, he pointed that out exactly as you mentioned. 
He's a happy positive guy and does great work from what I've been told. As I said before, he was just saying it the way it was and had no negative thing to say about Mopars, just how there is always flash and like my rods, not the greatest match in weights.   I ran down, he's having a hard time getting off anymore weight off the crank, but did show me the grinding he did on several areas of the crank.  It is a steal crank but does have cast areas and showed me how the cast molds didn't line up perfect, but once again thats how it was.   Don't beat me up here, just wondering if anyone heard similar things?

[Runner]

he is right  the balance somtimes was terrible.  mopar people hate to hear this, but it is what it is.     

[1969chargerrtse]

he is right  the balance sometimes was terrible.  mopar people hate to hear this, but it is what it is.     

All right there my brother from another Mother.    I had bought a restored 70 Swinger 340 ( one of my all time favorite high reving motors ) and that thing vibrated something terrible.  Now I have an idea why.  Not blaming Mopar, but probably was rebuilt and no attention paid to balancing things.

                                                                                                                     

[Charger-Bodie]

Id tell him to stop giving you reasons to be nervous, and build the dang engine, so you can someday drive youre Charger.

[1969chargerrtse]

Id tell him to stop giving you reasons to be nervous, and build the dang engine, so you can someday drive your Charger.

Just talked to him. Job is done, but new problem is trani plate doesn't match converter.  Oh yea.   2 different guys here, engine builder/balance guy.  Both doing best they can.  Oh also he said slag was not a correct term, but deburring around the journals, that area he said has lots of sharp metal burrs  that are normally smoothed out.

[hemihead]

He's right . When it came to certain areas Mopar may not have been the best sometimes . But you have to remember also that they were built on an assembly line and late sixties / early seventies weren't a high water mark for quality from any company .

[chargerbr549]

The guy that does all the engine balancing in our shop says that the 440's were some of the worst balanced V8s that hes seen and hes been at it for over 20 years but with that being said the bottom ends were built very tough although maybe a little heavy but they would take alot of abuse without breaking cranks or puking out rods.

Kevin

[Blakcharger440]

The balancing or production processes were no better or worse than Chevy or Ford back in the day. Thats just how it was. 

[1969chargerrtse]

Not for nuttin but.  Speaking of sloppy.  What about how they painted over the battery cable and ground strap , plugs exhaust manifolds etc...?  That is sloppy, other makers didn't do that?  I hate the fact after all the hard work I've been doing in detailing that I have to shoot paint over my straps, pcv rubber grommet and pcv valve.  For sure it's gong to look sloppy , but.... Thats the way it was.

[69_500]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what seperates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

[1969chargerrtse]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what separates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

Why does it seem people pick on the other guy?  There's nothing wrong with admitting to good and bad points of the auto makers.  Chevy and Mopar guys did as told by the designers.  There's no way a 69 Camaro or Chevelle engine compartment would be considered sloppy or done cheap because of the semi black firewall and fender skirts. What about the chrome valve covers on the 396 and 427, the gold cadmium plated power brake booster?    I love the painted Mopar compartments, classy to me, but I do not like at all how the fender compartments were designed and I feel the main reason so many rotted out.  To assemble a motor then add parts not related to the block and spray the whole thing engine color is just not as nice as adding the items on after the block is painted.  No need to bash the other great makers of the era.   And as for all black, how many people end up spraying their compartments black?  My Charger was also painted black in the bay.  Black is not lazy but color of choice.  Speaking of black, lets call a spade a spade, painting over the plugs manifolds cables is not as neat and nice as adding them after.    But that's my thought.  Anyone else?

[69Chrgr]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what seperates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

Hence leaving an ugly engine bay. Don't kid yourself about GM's or Fords being in a perfect world. My dad has an '87 Grand National, 29,000 miles on it, always garaged and pampered. My brother bought it from him, and now that it's being driven, you have to be careful not to turn any knobs or handles in any aggressive way as they break off in your hands. Dad was a little disappointed I didn't want the car, but I don't want to be working on it daily with a bottle of superglue day in and day out trying to keep it together. It was a fast car in it's day, and it's a prestigious automobile to most. However, the body, frame and everthing around the engine is just crap. That's just the way it is.

[1969chargerrtse]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what seperates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

Hence leaving an ugly engine bay. Don't kid yourself about GM's or Fords being in a perfect world. My dad has an '87 Grand National, 29,000 miles on it, always garaged and pampered. My brother bought it from him, and now that it's being driven, you have to be careful not to turn any knobs or handles in any aggressive way as they break off in your hands. Dad was a little disappointed I didn't want the car, but I don't want to be working on it daily with a bottle of superglue day in and day out trying to keep it together. It was a fast car in it's day, and it's a prestigious automobile to most. However, the body, frame and everthing around the engine is just crap. That's just the way it is.

Ah, I think an 87 anything would require a bottle of glue to be had.  Know one is Putting Ford in a perfect world.  I like those Chevys though.

[69Chrgr]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what seperates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

Hence leaving an ugly engine bay. Don't kid yourself about GM's or Fords being in a perfect world. My dad has an '87 Grand National, 29,000 miles on it, always garaged and pampered. My brother bought it from him, and now that it's being driven, you have to be careful not to turn any knobs or handles in any aggressive way as they break off in your hands. Dad was a little disappointed I didn't want the car, but I don't want to be working on it daily with a bottle of superglue day in and day out trying to keep it together. It was a fast car in it's day, and it's a prestigious automobile to most. However, the body, frame and everthing around the engine is just crap. That's just the way it is.

Ah, I think an 87 anything would require a bottle of glue to be had.  Know one is Putting Ford in a perfect world.  I like those Chevys though.
Sorry, just can't get into the Chevy thing. And yes you're right, 87 anything sucks, including Chrysler . But the Buick GN has always seemed to be one of the "Holy Grail' GM cars. Sorry to say, but if you want any year Camaro, just look to your local trailer park. They've got about every imagninable Camaro combo you can think of. And as far as quality goes for the old Camaro's........Broken in half door handles, channel lock activated windows, broken interior(plastic) door handles, sagging doors, curled over dash boards, broken steering columns, sagging headliners, grinding starters yearning for proper engagement with the flywheel, broken puter shock mounts in the rear. All you need after that is a nice mullet hair cut and your good to go.

[hemihead]

Can't sell me on anything Chevy , just the way it was and is .

[1969chargerrtse]

Well the paint in the engine compartment isn't sloppy if you ask me, and that includes all the spraying on the battery cable, and plugs and such. That is what seperates the men from the boys. Chevy workers were just to lazy to paint anything in the engine compartment, hence leaving it all black.

Hence leaving an ugly engine bay. Don't kid yourself about GM's or Fords being in a perfect world. My dad has an '87 Grand National, 29,000 miles on it, always garaged and pampered. My brother bought it from him, and now that it's being driven, you have to be careful not to turn any knobs or handles in any aggressive way as they break off in your hands. Dad was a little disappointed I didn't want the car, but I don't want to be working on it daily with a bottle of superglue day in and day out trying to keep it together. It was a fast car in it's day, and it's a prestigious automobile to most. However, the body, frame and everthing around the engine is just crap. That's just the way it is.

Ah, I think an 87 anything would require a bottle of glue to be had.  Know one is Putting Ford in a perfect world.  I like those Chevys though.
Sorry, just can't get into the Chevy thing. And yes you're right, 87 anything sucks, including Chrysler . But the Buick GN has always seemed to be one of the "Holy Grail' GM cars. Sorry to say, but if you want any year Camaro, just look to your local trailer park. They've got about every imagninable Camaro combo you can think of. And as far as quality goes for the old Camaro's........Broken in half door handles, channel lock activated windows, broken interior(plastic) door handles, sagging doors, curled over dash boards, broken steering columns, sagging headliners, grinding starters yearning for proper engagement with the flywheel, broken puter shock mounts in the rear. All you need after that is a nice mullet hair cut and your good to go.

Oh what you're really saying is I should of said "  I like those Chebbies man "  fine, but not 67,8,and the best of them all 1969.  This is my old RS Z 2/8 and NOTHING broke and fell off and it had a factory 8k tach for real reasons.

[69Chrgr]

Sorry guy, don't mean to hurt your feelings or anything. I think every squirrley high school kid should have a Camaro. Not really sure why(if you really could) you want to turn 8k on the street. And again, your local trailer park should be loaded with those. It's a pre-requisite. Double wides require the Trans Am package.

[1969chargerrtse]

No feelings hurt, that car got more thumbs up than anything I ever owned.  Odd about you commenting on a car that did 8k from the factory, ever been in a 340?   I know this is a Mopar site and I'm so proud of mine and it's the one car I chose to own, but jeeez surprised at the Camaro dislike.  I know there are quite a few Mopar GM guys on the site, where are they now?      Gotta love how this started out sloppy motors and ending about Chevy sucks. 

[Blakcharger440]

No feelings hurt, that car got more thumbs up than anything I ever owned.  Odd about you commenting on a car that did 8k from the factory, ever been in a 340?   I know this is a Mopar site and I'm so proud of mine and it's the one car I chose to own, but jeeez surprised at the Camaro dislike.  I know there are quite a few Mopar GM guys on the site, where are they now?      Gotta love how this started out sloppy motors and ending about Chevy sucks. 

Each of the big three had their good points and bad points. But it just sounded like a blanket statement for someone to say "mopars are sloppy motors". And by the way..... look at the bottom of my signature cars that I own. I don't hate chevies at all especially 69 Camaros and you had a nice one. I think I will restore mine to look like that one. 

[1969chargerrtse]

No feelings hurt, that car got more thumbs up than anything I ever owned.  Odd about you commenting on a car that did 8k from the factory, ever been in a 340?   I know this is a Mopar site and I'm so proud of mine and it's the one car I chose to own, but jeeez surprised at the Camaro dislike.  I know there are quite a few Mopar GM guys on the site, where are they now?      Gotta love how this started out sloppy motors and ending about Chevy sucks. 

Each of the big three had their good points and bad points. But it just sounded like a blanket statement for someone to say "mopars are sloppy motors". And by the way..... look at the bottom of my signature cars that I own. I don't hate Chevy's at all especially 69 Camaros and you had a nice one. I think I will restore mine to look like that one. 

Hey finally a good Chevy comment!!  You know when I bought my charger back in August, everthing that could go wrong did.  I was very upset and came on this site and made a comment about why I like GM cars because of what I had been through with the Charger which  just blew a motor only a month after getting it.  I got slammed to the wall big time.  The guys here beat me up.     http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=34954.new    I took all those comments and thought this.  Gee, these Mopar people are really dedicated, and then I changed my attitude and joined the gang.  What bothered me was that since my first car, a 57 Nomad wagon and then probably every Chevy SS convertible made, to many big blocks including the 70 LS6  454/450hp Chevelle, they were great well built, solid cars.   As time went by my love and respect for the Charger just got deeper.  It is without adopt the best looking car that ever rolled down the road.   But keep in mind I sold a 72 454 Corvette convertible that was turn key ready.  I never ever had a problem with it.  And here I was with the Charger and all I've been having are problems.  I'm big enough to know not to blame the car but the idiots that put it together after the paint work, or just over the last 40 years.   Thing is I started thinking, you know what I'm not bashing GM cars anymore. They were great great Muscle cars of that time and I see know reason why people can't be big enough to admit it and still love their Mopar?   As a kid, I had Mopar pictures and Chevy pictures all over my walls ( plus a few 69 Judge GTO's ).  They are both great car companies to me and that is that.