Need engine recommendations

[runningman]

Hopefully you guys can help me out on choosing a good cam for my engine as well as any other machine work that would be helpful.  Here are some of the receipts I got when I picked up the car.  Thanks!

[runningman]

another

[runningman]

more

[runningman]

my intake Weiand #8009 that has been modified

[runningman]

pic of exhaust ports on the heads 2843906-9

[runningman]

Pistons that were installed are different from what is listed on the receipt.  They are SpeedPro L2295F.  Right now I have 3.23 gearing and would like to keep it until I eventually get gear vendors.  I have 1 7/8 TTI ceramic coated headers and 2 1/2" x-pipe exhaust from TTI as well.  Car currently has a low stall converter (I think it is 1800-2000) and the MP .509 hyd cam. 

[firefighter3931]

Matt, a couple of questions if i may :

(1) What carburator do you have for this engine

(2) Does the car have power brakes

(3) Are you willing to swap out the torque converter

(4) What rear end gears do you plan on going with in the future

(5) were the heads bowl ported after the oversize valve installation

Some comments :

(1) The cam is too big for the stall speed and rear end gearing. It must be quite the pooch out of the hole 

(2) The intake manifold is fine....don't sweat it. 





Ron

[runningman]

Ron, sorry I forgot about the carb info.  It has an 800cfm Holley double pumper.  I have a manual SSBC disc brake set up to install.  I am willing to swap out anything that you recommend doing  .  Thinking of going with 3.91 gears at some point.  I am not sure about the head machining work.  The prior owner of my car had all that work done.  Engine only has around 400 miles on it since.  Yes it is a dog out of the hole........my 91 New Yorker is quicker 

[firefighter3931]

Yes it is a dog out of the hole........my 91 New Yorker is quicker 

Well that's not a surprise....too much cam, not enough stall or gear.  The 509 likes lots of stall and gear to work well...and it's still a pain in the azz to tune. 

Ok, so what are you looking for ? Mainly a cruiser build ? Street/strip bruiser ?

You have the adjustable valvetrain so are you open to a solid cam ?

What's the budget ?



Ron

[runningman]

Ron,  I would like a cruiser that I can take to the strip every now and then and not be embarassed.  I am open to a solid cam but most of the guys at work are telling me to stay away because I will be making adjustments a lot.  I would like to match everything as best as possible and hopefully not have to put too much more $$ into it.  I am hoping to stay under 1,000 or so.  I will need a big chunk to have the final bodywork and paint done at the end of the year.  Not sure when I will be changing the gearing so if I had change out the cam again for whenever that occurs that will be fine.  Thanks!  Matt

[runningman]

Ron, I am not opposed to spending more I guess..........if my wife lets me 

[firefighter3931]

Ron,  I would like a cruiser that I can take to the strip every now and then and not be embarassed.  I am open to a solid cam but most of the guys at work are telling me to stay away because I will be making adjustments a lot.  I would like to match everything as best as possible and hopefully not have to put too much more $$ into it.  I am hoping to stay under 1,000 or so.  I will need a big chunk to have the final bodywork and paint done at the end of the year.  Not sure when I will be changing the gearing so if I had change out the cam again for whenever that occurs that will be fine.  Thanks!  Matt

No problems with a solid cam....usually the lash needs adjusted once a year and it takes 30 minutes or so to do it. 

For your combo i like the Comp XS274S extreme energy solid.  I would use the EDM solid lifters with priority cam lobe oiling and a good additive package that has zinc/phosphorus in it (EOS or Comp breakin additive). A good oil like VR1 20/50 valvoline and a Napa Gold/Wix oil filter.

The PTC 11in 2800 stall street converter would be my choice with the outlined combo.

The 800 DP holley is fine. 

This will all come in below your 1k budget and improve the drivability of your car significantly. Off idle power will be strong and it'll be a tire frier. This cam should make good power right up to 5800 rpm or so....which is where your heads will start to fall off anyway.

Once you add the 3.91's things will get really fun ! 



Ron

[runningman]

Ron, great thanks!.  You don't think any additional head work is necessary?  Would Summit be the best place to get these parts?  Thanks again!  Matt

[runningman]

One more thing I forgot to mention, the engine builder said the compression ratio was around 10.5 to 1.  You probably already know that from the piston choice though

[firefighter3931]

One more thing I forgot to mention, the engine builder said the compression ratio was around 10.5 to 1.  You probably already know that from the piston choice though

I figured as much based on the 2295 pistons....so you need to pull some static compression out of it to help with the pump gas issue. I'm gonna recommend a thick Felpro gasket with a larger bore diameter and compressed thickness. The 1039's are almost 14cc volume and seal up nice :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FPP%2D1039&autoview=sku


The XS274S solid cam will work fine with your current valve springs and timing chain set (single bolt upper gear) and that is one of the reasons i selected it ; for minimal installation hassles. These extreme energy grinds are also very strong performers and make killer torque....and this one is the right size (duration) for your combo :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D21%2D231%2D4&autoview=sku

You'll need different pushrods for the mechanical cam : pn 105-1009

http://www.440source.com/pushrods.htm

The EDM lifters with priority lobe oiling :

http://www.competitionproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=91718


I would use the felpro 1215 intake gasket set that blocks the heat crossover. This keeps the carb and intake cooler and prevents vapor lock in the hot weather :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FPP%2D1215&autoview=sku


Call John  at CRT and tell him you want a 2800 stall 11in PTC converter ($250.00) and he will ask you for engine details so have the info handy when you order it :

https://www.coperacingtrans.com/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=5f3a34148f7b3e8512db89f31a382ed8

* ask about upgrading the flexplate & bolts while you are speaking with him 


That should get you started for now. When it's up and running we can work on the tuneup for maximum performance. 




Ron

[Runner]

hey ron, rvoyles on moparts found that with the howards edm lifters his hydrolic pushtubes were the right length.... something to check in to before laying down the cash.   

[runningman]

Ron, thanks alot for all the info.  The guy at work that is going to help me has some relatives that own a machine/engine building shop.  I gave him all the info and he said he can probably get me all the parts 25% off through his distributor  I will be able to go over his house and help him so I get some hands on engine work also.  He says he can gasket match the exhaust ports on the heads for around 100-$125 for both.  Is this necessary?  I thought I remembered reading somewhere that depending on the engine combo this could be detrimental.  Thanks again!

[runningman]

hey ron, rvoyles on moparts found that with the howards edm lifters his hydrolic pushtubes were the right length.... something to check in to before laying down the cash.   

I can have him check on these as well......Thanks!

[firefighter3931]

hey ron, rvoyles on moparts found that with the howards edm lifters his hydrolic pushtubes were the right length.... something to check in to before laying down the cash.   

Mike, i read that thread and Rob ended up using a 9.125 pushrod with the edm lifters in his 440. The 9.125 is the correct length for a hyd cam with adjustable rocker arms. The standard mechanical lifter uses a 9.25 pushrod which would be too long with the EDM lifters which place the cup higher in the lifter body so that usually means a custom pushrod....

But....Rob's heads were milled .050 so taking that into consideration ; someone using an unmilled head would need 9.125 + .050 = 9.175

The 440 Source pushrods measure 9.180 so that's close enough. Of course the best way to do it would be to mock up and measure with a checking pushrod but if the heads  are unmilled these 440source pieces should work...and save Matt some cash.   


Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron, thanks alot for all the info.  The guy at work that is going to help me has some relatives that own a machine/engine building shop.  I gave him all the info and he said he can probably get me all the parts 25% off through his distributor  I will be able to go over his house and help him so I get some hands on engine work also.  He says he can gasket match the exhaust ports on the heads for around 100-$125 for both.  Is this necessary?  I thought I remembered reading somewhere that depending on the engine combo this could be detrimental.  Thanks again!

Matt, don't waste any funds on port matching the exhaust. 

Have him check the intake port alignment and correct if need be 


Ron

[runningman]

Will do........thanks a bunch! 

[Runner]

ohh ok  i see what your taking about with the pushtubes.....       i dont know how nice they are but from the pics, the 440 source pushtubes look "rough" compared to the crane chromemoly stuff im using.   the ends look like the machining ist as fine.    might just be the pics though.

[runningman]

Ron, I ordered my cam and lifters yesterday.  The cam is on backorder for a couple of weeks.  I started looking at the gaskets and I can get them a little cheaper than the quote I got from the guy that is helping me out the build.  I am going to call Summit and have them add them to my order.  Can you recommend a good set of valve cover gaskets that will be good for my application?  Also do you have a preference for other gaskets? (oil pan and timing cover).  Thanks again!

Matt

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I ordered my cam and lifters yesterday.  The cam is on backorder for a couple of weeks.  I started looking at the gaskets and I can get them a little cheaper than the quote I got from the guy that is helping me out the build.  I am going to call Summit and have them add them to my order.  Can you recommend a good set of valve cover gaskets that will be good for my application?  Also do you have a preference for other gaskets? (oil pan and timing cover).  Thanks again!

Matt

Matt, i've allways used the felpro gaskets with ultra copper high temp sealant. On the Valvecover gaskets i just seal them to the valvecover and let the rtv set up overnight before torqueing them down. The rubber gaskets are what i use (not cork)

On the oilpan and timing cover i use sealant on both sides of the gasket and just snug them up while allowing the rtv to setup then tighten down later...works for me. 


Ron

[runningman]

Okay, that's what I will do..........Thanks again!   

[runningman]

Ron, is this the additive you are referring to?  Also how much do I need?  Thanks
Matt


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D159&N=700+400114+115&autoview=sku


Also, this is the oil filter you recommend?

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=FIL&PartNumber=1515&Description=Oil+Filter+(Gold)

[firefighter3931]

Ron, is this the additive you are referring to?  Also how much do I need?  Thanks
Matt


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D159&N=700+400114+115&autoview=sku


Also, this is the oil filter you recommend?

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=FIL&PartNumber=1515&Description=Oil+Filter+(Gold)

Matt,

Yes on the filter and yes on the additive. I would run the additive full time....with every oil change and use a good quality diesel or performance oil. 


Ron

[runningman]

Wow that was fast.  I will do that, just add one 12 oz bottle with each oil change?  Man I wish my car was ready........I can't wait to feel the difference 

[firefighter3931]

just add one 12 oz bottle with each oil change? 

Yep, one bottle per oil change is fine. 

Man I wish my car was ready........I can't wait to feel the difference

With the changes you're making there will be a very  noticable improvement in performance. Your back tires won't be too happy though ! 


Ron

[runningman]

You are defiinitely the man to go to for this stuff     If you ever get to the Detroit area let me know.  I always keep a keg of Labatt in my bar fridge    I remember reading a post a while back about oil pans.  I think you recommended the hemi pan from Mancini's right?  Windage tray from them as well?  I am not sure if I have one in mine or not yet, gonna pull the pan this week before my buddy picks my engine up.  Also, I have alot of sludge looking stuff in the coolant jackets.  He is going to have the block boiled at his shop.  Is there anything else I should do to keep the coolant jackets clean?  Camshaft finally showed up today 

[firefighter3931]

Labatts beer sounds good ! 

Matt, the hemi pan/pickup and windage tray will work fine for your build....go ahead and order them up. 

The best thing you can do to keep the water jacket in your block clean is to keep good antifreeze in there at all times. Old antifreeze will break down and cause rust....every 2-3 years just flush and refill. 

Good news on the cam ! 



Ron

[runningman]

Great thanks again!  Do you ever get out this way??

[firefighter3931]

Great thanks again!  Do you ever get out this way??

Your welcome Matt 

I go to Norwalk every year for the Classic in mid September.    One of these years i'd like to go to the Motor City for the Dream Cruise. 



Ron

[runningman]

Ron, have you seen this deal yet?  http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4344329&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD  I posted this in the special buys as well.  Is this a good deal?  Do you recommend these over the NAPA filters?  If so which WIX one would I need?  Thanks  Matt

[firefighter3931]

Ron, have you seen this deal yet?  http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4344329&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD  I posted this in the special buys as well.  Is this a good deal?  Do you recommend these over the NAPA filters?  If so which WIX one would I need?  Thanks  Matt

Matt, the Napa filters are repackaged WIX filters. 

I would use the large street filter that filters to 20 microns. 



Ron

[runningman]

Ron, I picked up the hemi oil pan from Mancini's yesterday.  I have a Moroso pan on there right now http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D19760&N=700+115&autoview=sku I was wondering if you would still recommend the hemi over this one.  I just really didn't like the chrome finish but that sucker is pretty damn expensive.  The pickup for that is like another 60 or so as well.  Just wondering.  Thanks  Matt

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I picked up the hemi oil pan from Mancini's yesterday.  I have a Moroso pan on there right now http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D19760&N=700+115&autoview=sku I was wondering if you would still recommend the hemi over this one.  I just really didn't like the chrome finish but that sucker is pretty damn expensive.  The pickup for that is like another 60 or so as well.  Just wondering.  Thanks  Matt

Matt, i would use the Hemi pan which has an extra qt capacity over the Milodon chrome pan. Just sell the other pan or keep it for a future project 


Not a fan of chrome pans either....they can be difficult to seal up. 


Ron

[runningman]

Great thanks, I will probably sell it.

[runningman]

Ron,

My engine has been done for a couple of months and am finally getting it back this weekend.  I noticed some of the threads regarding the Firecore wires and had a couple of questions.  I would like to run a set of those and have them routed as neatly as possible with TTI headers.  Can you use factory looms for this?  Also I am not sure how long I need each wire to be since I am not sure where they are going to be routed.  I am hoping you have a good way to run these and hopefully know what lengths I need...Thanks.

I will get some pics once the engine is back, now it's time to get some metal work done over the winter.

[Chatt69chgr]

Ron--------I notice that you recommend either the GM EOS or the Comp Cams additive to get right % of ZDDP.  What about the ZDDP Plus product?  I know it's been discussed on here before.

http://www.zddplus.com/index.htm

[firefighter3931]

Ron,

My engine has been done for a couple of months and am finally getting it back this weekend.  I noticed some of the threads regarding the Firecore wires and had a couple of questions.  I would like to run a set of those and have them routed as neatly as possible with TTI headers.  Can you use factory looms for this?  Also I am not sure how long I need each wire to be since I am not sure where they are going to be routed.  I am hoping you have a good way to run these and hopefully know what lengths I need...Thanks.

Matt, good news on your new engine.....bet you can't wait to fire it up ! 

As for your questions regarding the Firecores :

(1) the 8mm wires will work in a factory loom with a little modification

(2) the "pro fit" Firecores are designed for a header application and available in both 8mm and 8.5mm & for a standard distributor cap as well as an HEI (MSD) style cap.

(3) The wires can also be custom ordered to your specifications....all we would need are the lengths and plug/boot style. The Header "pro-fit" sets use a 135* high temp silicone boot and fit fantastic with TTI headers.



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Ron--------I notice that you recommend either the GM EOS or the Comp Cams additive to get right % of ZDDP.  What about the ZDDP Plus product?  I know it's been discussed on here before.

http://www.zddplus.com/index.htm

Chatt, the ZZDP+ is an excellent product. The MSDS shows it to be loaded with zinc/phos.....i would use it without hesitation. 


Ron

[runningman]

Ron,

My engine has been done for a couple of months and am finally getting it back this weekend.  I noticed some of the threads regarding the Firecore wires and had a couple of questions.  I would like to run a set of those and have them routed as neatly as possible with TTI headers.  Can you use factory looms for this?  Also I am not sure how long I need each wire to be since I am not sure where they are going to be routed.  I am hoping you have a good way to run these and hopefully know what lengths I need...Thanks.

Matt, good news on your new engine.....bet you can't wait to fire it up ! 

As for your questions regarding the Firecores :

(1) the 8mm wires will work in a factory loom with a little modification

(2) the "pro fit" Firecores are designed for a header application and available in both 8mm and 8.5mm & for a standard distributor cap as well as an HEI (MSD) style cap.

(3) The wires can also be custom ordered to your specifications....all we would need are the lengths and plug/boot style. The Header "pro-fit" sets use a 135* high temp silicone boot and fit fantastic with TTI headers.



Ron

Ron, thanks for the info.  Can you run the wiring in the factory looms with headers?  The pics I have seen show the looms with manifolds.  Wires were pretty much laying everywhere when I got my car with no looms.  I saw the thread where the plastic inserts needed to be opened for the larger wires.  Do you have any pics of the wires being routed with the TTI headers.  Not sure where the best placement would be, not sure about the measurements until I know this for sure.  Hopefully I am explaining myself sufficiently, kind of hard when I really don't know what the hell I am talking about. 

And yes I can't wait until I get to fire it up, I went to visit Leon (hemi-hampton) at his shop yesterday and we ended up talking for a couple of hours.  I may get him to do my paint for me when I am ready, he does some nice work   Of course this is all depending on how this merger deal works out......I may have to take a crash course in body and paint

[runningman]

Ron, also I saw this product over on the Moparts board and was wondering if there was any real advantage to using a one of these adapters and caps instead of the regular MP cap. 

RobbMc Cap Adapter allows the use of a Magnum style distributor cap on earlier distributors.

Order a RobbMc cap adapter from our website here:

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/capadapt.html

[firefighter3931]

Do you have any pics of the wires being routed with the TTI headers.  Not sure where the best placement would be, not sure about the measurements until I know this for sure.  Hopefully I am explaining myself sufficiently, kind of hard when I really don't know what the hell I am talking about. 

Matt, here is a pic of the 8mm Firecores with the TTI headers. You could use the factory looms to keep the front of the engine tidy and then route them like in the picture :

[firefighter3931]

Matt, here's a pic with the factory modified looms ;

[firefighter3931]

Ron, also I saw this product over on the Moparts board and was wondering if there was any real advantage to using a one of these adapters and caps instead of the regular MP cap. 

Personally, i prefer the factory cap but some guys like the HEI (GM) style connecter. MSD uses the HEI terminal so you don't have any choice if you're using an MSD distributor. INMO, there's no advantage with one over the other. I've allways uses the MP distributors in high RPM, high HP builds with zero issues. 

The one advantage the MSD distributor has is easy mechanical advance adjustments....bushings are used to limit mechanical advance. Those bushings are available in several sizes and swap out in a few minutes....but they don't have as much fine tuning adjustment as the MP units. The Newer MP distributors also have an adjustable mechanical advance which is very user friendly as well....much better than the older models which required welding up the slots on the advance plate. Small torx screws are used to adjust "stops" in the advance mechanism to limit mechanical advance....definately more adjustability.   

I just purchased a brand new MP distributor for my next stroker build and will use the pro-fit Firecores on that engine 



Ron

[runningman]

Ron, thanks for the pics.  When I got my engine back I will pop my old wires back on and get some measurements.  What is the cost of those sets? 

Matt

[SeattleCharger]

   

[firefighter3931]

Ron, thanks for the pics.  When I got my engine back I will pop my old wires back on and get some measurements.  What is the cost of those sets? 

Matt

Matt, the Pro-Fit 8mm wires are $95 + shipping. If you want custom lengths lemme know, not a problem. 



Ron

[runningman]

Ron, I will send you an email when I am ready.  Thanks

Matt

[firefighter3931]

Thanks Matt....when you're ready we can fix you up. 


Ron