Anybody else hate these new red light cameras?

[Mike DC]

   

RLCs are slowly but steadily working their way into the big intersections my hometown.  I've never been ticketed by one yet, but it's probably only a matter of time.  A few months or a few years and it'll happen for sure.



Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America?  Would the founding fathers have seen fit to put up with this sh*t? 

Allowing the gov't to convict you of a crime & issue you a monetary fine as punishment, based on nothing but an unmanned robotic camera mounted in a public place?  WTF kind of slippery slope are we getting on here? 



I wish the public would revolt against these things.  I wish people would just start systematically smashing out every camera that gets put up.   

[SnoPro440]

Just do what this guy did.  Run the red light and then run the camera over. 


http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=FE5B6D28DCCCE98BB6B59782969E1BB8?contentId=6027438&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

[FLG]

Yep all over here in NY. Ive gotten quite a few tickets from them already. Granted i should have just stopped but its ridiculous sometimes, they tell you how long the light was red before you passed it and from the tickets ive gotten it hasn't even been a damn second yet, im talking milliseconds. But whatever, pay the 50$ and now remember to stop at that intersection the second the damn light turns yellow.

[TK73]

They're on the poles next to the red lights here, no running 'em over with a car... over $100 fine from what I hear.  Saw 3 cars get tagged one evening in the matter of 2-3 seconds...

BIG MONEY generator for local governments.

[moparstuart]

   My buisness partner just got one of those tickets in the mail was driving our delivery truck on a saturday.  He say they photo shopped the red light into the picture !   

[Drache]

In canada we had cameras mounted in random locations hooked up to radar guns to catch speeders! There was enough outcry about them that they were "banned".

[Blown70]

   
Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America?  Would the founding fathers have seen fit to put up with this sh*t? 

Allowing the gov't to convict you of a crime & issue you a monetary fine as punishment, based on nothing but an unmanned robotic camera mounted in a public place?  WTF kind of slippery slope are we getting on here? 


I wish the public would revolt against these things.  I wish people would just start systematically smashing out every camera that gets put up.   

I think the casue was the number of accidents casued by people running red lights, or yeilding to right of way. 

I personally don't like them, and question, the valid point of a camera do the work.... BS .

Don't get me started on the police state we are becoming to live it........

[TruckDriver]

Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America? 

Phhhhh. I felt that way 10 years ago already. I wish I could move the hell out of this country. I'd love to move to Canada, or Brazil. I love Australia, but to many poisonous snakes and spiders   If I say why I am tired of this country, I'm sure this thread will get locked. I'll just say one word though. "Government"

America, "Made In China"

[TK73]

Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America? 

If I say why I am tired of this country, I'm sure this thread will get locked. I'll just say one word though. "Government"

Hmmm, same thought here, I can narrow it down to the last 7 1/2 years of our federal "government"... 

[Mike DC]

 
I think there have been cases where the authorities started shortening the yellow light times to increase the ticket revenues. 

And there's supposedly some data suggesting that these cameras can actually increase the accident rates at an intersection when people stand on the brakes to avoid the camera ticket.

[raybeez]

Not only does Arizona have the red light cams...they also have photo radar.

Photo radar is set up along a highway and takes your picture when you're speeding.

The governor of Arizona stated that Arizona was in a defecit and needed to find a way to make money. She suggested that the state put up MORE photo radar cameras....What does that tell you?

Basically those cameras are only there to make money. They do NOT save lives, as their public relations people state but bring in a nice check to the town that has the cameras.

Oh, and Redflex (photo radar company based in Scottsdale Arizona) makes up to $70 PER TICKET...

[defiance]

My wife was t-boned and narrowly missed being shoved into more oncoming traffic by some psycho running a red-light, so i'm all about anything that will train people NOT TO FREAKING DO THAT.
The 4th amendment is sacred, but that has nothing to do with this.  How is there any expectation of privacy on a public street?  when you run a red light, you do so in a PUBLIC place, in full view of anyone nearby.  Putting cameras in public places doesn't impact privacy at all since these places are, by definition, *public*

I disagree with the ticketing process since there is always an assumption of guilt, but that has NOTHING to do with a red-light camera; the same applies to a policeman pulling you over and giving you a ticket.

[ITSA426]

They've been stopped in Minnesota, for now, because the set up they used didn't identify the offending driver so the tickets went to the registered owner.  The cameras only photographed the license plate and rear of the car.  Can't prove who did the crime? 

The technology is getting better.  Still I see so many people blow a light by three or four seconds that I appreciate the safety idea.  And they were a real money maker while they lasted.

[Brock Samson]

new to you maybe they've had them here for about ten years...
they also cause far more accidents then they prevent,.. rear enders mostly as folks slam on their brakes...

[Blown70]

new to you maybe they've had them here for about ten years...
they also cause far more accidents then they prevent,.. rear enders mostly as folks slam on their brakes...

I agree but I thought the big idea was they were to make people aware,  again it return it has casued the opposite reaction?  Go figure.

[Ponch ®]

I don't like em either, and i think they're just there to get money out of people.

But sometimes you guys read waaaay to much into things, like this "we're becoming a police state and I need to move out of this country" stuff. Sometimes a traffic light camera is just a traffic light camera.

[Brock Samson]

they originally put them in here to stop pedestrians getting run over, cause there was one year when about ten folks got mowed down walking in the crosswalk on the green light...
but it's led to a whole host of other issues, like the rear enders..


http://auto.howstuffworks.com/red-light-camera2.htm

http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/californias-highest-court-rules-on-red+light-cameras-121168.php

http://jalopnik.com/368782/red-light-cameras-not-generating-enough-money-turned-off-in-dallas

[69Charger_440]

My wife was t-boned and narrowly missed being shoved into more oncoming traffic by some psycho running a red-light, so i'm all about anything that will train people NOT TO FREAKING DO THAT.
The 4th amendment is sacred, but that has nothing to do with this.  How is there any expectation of privacy on a public street?  when you run a red light, you do so in a PUBLIC place, in full view of anyone nearby.  Putting cameras in public places doesn't impact privacy at all since these places are, by definition, *public*

I disagree with the ticketing process since there is always an assumption of guilt, but that has NOTHING to do with a red-light camera; the same applies to a policeman pulling you over and giving you a ticket.

I agree.  If you lived in my city you would wish they had these damn cameras.  People are ALWAYS running red-lights here, and that is not an exaggeration.  These are the people who think they are "rich," and above stopping for a red-light.  I've almost been T-boned twice by vehicles running a red-light at LEAST five-seconds after the light turned red.  Here is one for you.  I was about to enter an intersection when out of the corner of my eye I saw a tractor-trailer approaching his stop; however, he didn't even bother slowing down.  He just honked his horn and barreled through the intersection.  Mind you, I had the green light, but if I had continued I might not be here today.  Anyhow, my point is that the police can't be everywhere at once to enforce the traffic laws.  If these cameras can take a little bit of the load off of them so they can tend to other important things, than so be it.

[hemihead]

I don't like the idea of the government's power and their drive to make money . But the RLC doesn't bother me because I don't run red lights . Naturally if you run red lights you won't like them .

Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America? 

If I say why I am tired of this country, I'm sure this thread will get locked. I'll just say one word though. "Government"

Hmmm, same thought here, I can narrow it down to the last 7 1/2 years of our federal "government"... 

IMO it's not the last 7 1/2 years that bothers me as much as the next 4 - 8 .

[2Gunz]

It gets worse.........

In many cases the lights are installed, owned and operated by private companys.

The city just gets a small part of the profits.

We are getting whored out for 20 bucks a ticket.........

[bull]

Am I the only one who feels like this is no longer America? 

If I say why I am tired of this country, I'm sure this thread will get locked. I'll just say one word though. "Government"

Hmmm, same thought here, I can narrow it down to the last 7 1/2 years of our federal "government"... 

Yea, I'm sure everything will soon be perfect once your man or woman gets in.

I think the photo radar is BS. It's no better than trying to negotiate with a "voice robot" when you call an insurance company or big business to get something done. It's lazy too. I'd rather the cops be there pulling people over because routine traffic stops often net real bad guys in the process. Remember Timothy McVey? He was arrested during a routine traffic stop for having no license plate and illegal firearms in his car. They didn't figure out what he had done until three days later and although he wasn't caught in a place where photo radar would typically have been used it still points to the need for a real police presence on the street instead of robot cameras that can't be reasoned with. There are thousands of "incidental catches" of felons every day that wouldn't happen if photo red light/radar cameras are doing the job cops should be doing. IMO It's just another way for the govt. to increase revenue and mess with the average guy who's just trying to get to work because the real bad guys aren't going send their money in to pay a fine or show up in court to fight it. They'll just ignore it.

I was flashed by one of those mobile photo radar units the other day on my way to see the doctor. I don't know why it flashed me though because I and the car in front of mine were both doing 31 mph in a 35 zone. I wrote down the date and time and the speed indicated by both the reader board and my speedometer in case I have to fight it. But then I've been flashed before when I was speeding and another time when I ran a yellow light and never got any citation for those.

[daytonalo]

Am I the only outlaw on here Buy A clear plate cover from internet , it has clear Prism tape on inside , what does this do From directly behind , ground level , plate looks normal , stand to right or left side and plate is skewed and camera cant read it !! Trust me this is no bullshit , know a guy who has never payed a toll for the last 5 years !!

[skip68]

I wonder how long it takes to get one in the mail? I have a feeling I just might get one from a week ago. I got caught going through a light change!  And of course, we just put the new plates on!
Mrs.Skip68

[Brock Samson]

Am I the only outlaw on here Buy A clear plate cover from internet , it has clear Prism tape on inside , what does this do From directly behind , ground level , plate looks normal , stand to right or left side and plate is skewed and camera cant read it !! Trust me this is no bullshit , know a guy who has never payed a toll for the last 5 years !!

    And I wonder who that might be?... 

[histoy]

The cameras were installed here in Davenport, Iowa, but they've been turned off for the last year, because someone has challenged their use in court.   I think the case is to be tried here soon.

[daytonalo]

My cover is on it's way !!!

[defiance]

Am I the only outlaw on here Buy A clear plate cover from internet , it has clear Prism tape on inside , what does this do From directly behind , ground level , plate looks normal , stand to right or left side and plate is skewed and camera cant read it !! Trust me this is no bullshit , know a guy who has never payed a toll for the last 5 years !!

As a note on that, just saw a mythbusters episode on that, none of them worked according to them...
Not that I always agree with their methodology

[daytonalo]

Trust me they didn't test this one , my Buddy has not paid a toll in 5 years and no tickets !!! Trust me , they distort the plate from angle I di d see that episode , they shot the car from plate level , not from side where a camera would be mounted , do you get me

[Mike DC]

 
Saving lives doesn't automatically justify something.  That's what makes it a free country.   

We could save a ton of lives if we just put the interstate speed limit down to 30 mph.




If we're gonna do this stuff, then we should be issuing an occasional ticket, with a MAJOR legal/financial penalty, to those who blow through the red light by a wide margin.  That would actually make the roads safer by weeding out the real violators and not penalizing the everyday person. 

   

[Forza]

If you hate the red light cameras, don't run the damn red light. You may think its a joke and a scam to suck money from the average Joe but everytime some jackass runs the redlight it could result in a fatality. I don't know about you but when I die I don't want it to be because some toolbag ran a light and nailed my ass to oblivion.

[Mike DC]

 
By that line of reasoning, we shoudln't have legal firearms either.

  

Personally, I would rather take my chances with red-light runners than give the government the power to convict & fine me based on nothing but a camera image. 

[2Gunz]

So how long before we get that swear ticket thing from Demolition Man?

[defiance]

Personally, I would rather take my chances with red-light runners than give the government the power to convict & fine me based on nothing but a camera image.

Again, that has NOTHING to do with the cameras, it's the same thing when you're pulled over, you are assumed guilty.  It's the backend process that's the problem.

[MOPARHOUND!]

What Brock posted about increasing rear-enders is true.

"Red-light cameras increase crashes and costs, USF report finds"

Recent article, March 11, 2008, University of South Florida and other studies noted:

http://hscweb3.hsc.usf.edu/health/now/?p=404


Old article, with great points being made, written by a United State Congressman:

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/TickRedCamArmeynewstruth.asp

[MOPARHOUND!]

"I'm with the government, and I'm here to help you"................LOL.

Former Executive Assistant Metropolitan Police Chief Terrance W. Gainer said in January last year that "300 or so errors" should be expected when tens of thousands of tickets are issued monthly but that would not be a "show stopper" for the program. Later that month, the city was forced to admit wrongdoing when it was found guessing license plate numbers and issuing tickets to residents who didn't own the cars in the photos.   

Another:

Jill Bucciarelli of Cardiff, Calif. leans on her BMW and displays the 'red light camera' ticket she received in the mail from San Diego police. Bucciarelli's ticket shows photos of her running a red light with statistics stating she ran the light .05 seconds after it turned red.     A judge dismissed the citations against Bucciarelli and some 400 other motorists who were photographed running red lights at San Diego intersections.   

Another:

Please reconsider the red-light cameras, mayor: Providence Mayor David N. Cicilline unveiled a plan on Wednesday (Cicilline pledges to fight budget woes, reg.req.) to address a $58.9 million budget deficit and a $526 million unfunded pension liability that, he says, threatens to bankrupt the city within 10 years unless drastic steps are taken.

One element of the plan is "cameras that would photograph red light violators, enabling the city to send them traffic citations and raising an estimated $1.9 million in six months." 

Another:

In San Diego, according to AP (Red Light Cameras Yielding Outcry), "The police union denounced them after five on-duty officers received citations."   

Last one:

Safety was never the primary consideration. In fact, none of the devices were placed at any of San Diego's top-ten most dangerous intersections. Instead, the documents tell us how the camera operators consciously sought out mistimed intersections as locations for new red light cameras.

Yellow signal time at intersections turns out to be directly related to "red light running." Simply put, when the yellow light is short, more people enter on red. Inadequate yellow time causes a condition where individuals approaching an intersection are unable either to come to a safe stop or proceed safely before the light turns red.   

[Brock Samson]

gotta love this...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_staff/patrick_bedard/red_light_cameras_and_the_secret_gotcha_line_column

[0X01B8]

Imagine how many lives we can save if we just lowered the speed limit to 21 and raised the drinking age to 55!  That's from a Brock Yates column a long time ago.

[Khyron]

Hmmm, same thought here, I can narrow it down to the last 7 1/2 years of our federal "government"... 

it's been going on a lot longer then that 

[hutch]

I hate anything thats designed as a way to generate money for a city or county in the name of safty.  Its a scam.

[tkkruzer]

Imagine how many lives we can save if we just lowered the speed limit to 21 and raised the drinking age to 55!  That's from a Brock Yates column a long time ago.

just think of all the endangered species of insects we would save from a terrible death against your windshield if we would ondy drive 15 to 20 mph and I think we should take the wings off of aircraft and make them travel on freeways at 20 mph to save all the poor birds  the fact is we want big brother to insure our safety at all times so what do we expect when this happens  Tom

[Brock Samson]

   I really like the way your drinkin,.. hic...

[raybeez]

I'd like to add to this again...

I kind of like the red light cams ~ although I would have gotten the ticket for going through a red light. But the reason I went through the red light was because I was SMASHED INTO FROM BEHIND while I was sitting at the red light. (I was shot through the intersection like a cork).

There was a thing on the local news channel about photo radar/red light cams. I guess somebody there got a ticket, 'cause they ran a story for about a week on the truth behind photo radar and red light cams. (Somebody in the news crew doesn't like the cameras). Here's one of the stories they ran ...

A town outside of Phoenix Arizona had red light cams up, due to accidents. After the cameras were up this town wanted to try to cut down accidents themselves and raised the time the yellow light was on from like 3 seconds to like 5 seconds. The accidents were CUT by 60%
Unfortunately, this town had a contract with Redflex (photo radar company). Since the yellow light time was raised, there weren't so many photos/tickets being issued. This was in violation of the contract the town had with Redflex. In their contract, Redflex is GUARANTEED so many tickets per month. (Which would make sense since Reflex gets a cut from every ticket).
So the town had to send a check to Redflex for the amount of money the cameras WOULD have made!

Just about EVERY town that has photo radar/red light cams have a contract with the camera company. The camera company is GUARANTEED so much money per month per camera.
Oh and the news story also stated that there is an actual law where it states how long a yellow light must be lit. Don't remember what it is though.

I am VERY interested in finding out about those photo radar blockers for your license plate. I too saw the mythbusters, who stated that NOTHING blocks the photo radar. I've seen them on cars, but never got the chance to ask someone who actually has one if they work.

Keep us informed and updated Daytonalo 

[bull]

Now they're saying the red light cams are working too good: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970/

Red light cameras too good for their own good?
Some cities rethink devices as drivers pay heed, reducing fine revenue

Excerpt:

So last week, the city (Dallas) turned off about a quarter of the least profitable cameras, saying it couldn't justify the cost of running them.

Safety benefits questioned
Dallas was just following the lead of several other cities that have shut down red light cameras in recent months:

*City officials in Charlotte and Fayetteville, N.C., recently turned off all of their red light cameras, concluding that a state law diverting much of the revenue they generate in fines to schools meant their general funds were actually losing money, NBC affiliate WNCN of Raleigh reported.

*San Diego temporarily shut down all of its red light cameras late last year pending a lawsuit that sought $27 million in damages, alleging that the city's system was unconstitutional because it was run by a private company. The city's system faces a separate class-action suit targeting evidence gathered by cameras as illegal.

*Officials in Bolingbrook, Ill., ended their red light camera program after statistics showed a 40 percent drop in ticketable offenses.
It's not always lower revenue that leads municipalities to question whether red light cameras are worth it.

In Lubbock, Texas, for example, the City Council shut down all cameras last month, citing a report that showed statistically significant increases in rear-end collisions at intersections, including those with cameras.