Looks like we're gonna loose another '69

[JimShine]

Its all about location. There are 4 1969 Chargers on my street. But doesn't mean that is typical.

[Mike DC]

   

I've said it lots of times before --  I'd love to build my jump-proof GL idea.

All I need is for somebody to gimmie a huge pile of money and let me use their shop for a few months.

   

What's your plan Mike,.. tell us,.. drool5 2thumbs

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Oh yeah, I've been thinking about the idea for years.  And talked about it plenty of times with other fans at the DOH events.  I think it's totally do-able, but it would take cubic money & resources.  And I can't point to anything existing that is much like it to guarantee that it works.  So the idea hasn't ever gone anywhere in several years.



I don't expect something to go 200 feet through the air and fall 3 stories down without a scratch, but I'm pretty sure it would do moderate-height jumps without any unsolvable problems. 

There's nothing really unprecedented about making a 4500-pound vehicle be able to land from 10-15 feet up in the air.  The desert racer truck guys have been doing it for years.    The really complicated part is making it look like a stock '69 Dodge Charger.  And you've also gotta keep enough of the stock unibody panels around the outside to keep it crashworthy in a mishap.  (No fiberglass Charger shells. Several reasons for that.) 

I'd make something sorta like a 1970s NASCAR Charger.  It would have some major "hinge" action in the outer bodywork overhangs, and with the whole suspension custom built out of desert-racer truck parts.    It's a hell of a lot more complicated that this, but you get the basic idea.  Picture a hand-built car where the loadbearing parts have roughly the same dimensions as a stock Charger, but everything is built three times as beefy. 


All the obvious practical problems that are still popping up in your mind right about now . . . trust me, I've thought about them. 


 

[NMike]

the only problem i see with thar, is most desert racing trucks have shocks that are 3-4 feet long. they also need about 30 inches of suspension travel, and 37 inch tires. i think that a charger would need more than the daytona fender scoops to hide all that.

[Mike DC]

he only problem i see with that, is most desert racing trucks have shocks that are 3-4 feet long. they also need about 30 inches of suspension travel, and 37 inch tires. i think that a charger would need more than the daytona fender scoops to hide all that. 2thumbs

Yep.  Thought of it. 




Tires:

Looking at a race truck with a 37-inch tire on a 16" rim . . . versus a GL with a 27" tire on a 15" rim . . . The difference between the amount of sidewall height on the lower half of the wheel is not THAT much.  It's an issue, but it's not insurmountable IMO.  Strong-ass rims + higher tire inflations + some type of stiff inner tube, etc.

(And what if the problem can't be overcome?  So we're still sacrificing a set of cheap steel rims & old tires on each jump.  Big deal.)



Wheel travel:

It doesn't matter how much wheel travel a vehicle has, but rather how much of that travel is doing any real absorbing.

On a desert race truck, they have 2-3 feet of wheel travel.  But the first 2/3rds of that upward wheel travel is valved moderately soft, so that the truck takes smaller bumps better and doesn't beat the drivers senseless over the course of the race.  On a big jump, it's often only about the last 10-15 inches of the wheel travel that really starts to slow down the truck body's rate of fall.   


But a dedicated jumper GL? 

It doesn't need to absorb varying sized-jumps on a given run, doesn't need to corner or ride well, the impact itself doesn't even really need to be very comfortable at all compared to a desert truck . . . it just needs to go in a straight line, get up the ramp & fly, and then fall out of the air without completely demolishing man or machine.


Besides, the bumpstops (apart from the shock absorbers & springs entirely) that modern desert racing trucks run are in a league of their own.  They run 6-inch-telescoping steel canisters about the size of a beer bottle.  They're nitrogen-gas pressurized and adjustable.  They basically work like a set of truck airbag springs on some serious 'roids.   

[Dave22443]

Didn't the show Knight Rider switch to a full size, roto-molded, plastic mock-up for their car jumps in the later seasons?  Oh wait, I think the Duke's already tried that only on a smaller scale 

But actually, I think this idea could work, especially if you consider using a catch ramp.  But to me, the only way to make it really work is to put a fiberglass charger body on a modified desert racing truck (or buggy).  To do this, its going to have to be full tube chassis all the way.

[Mike DC]

But to me, the only way to make it really work is to put a fiberglass charger body on a modified desert racing truck (or buggy).  To do this, its going to have to be full tube chassis all the way.

Everybody who shoots the bull with me about this idea wants to do a 'glass shell.  It sounds like it would make a lot more sense at first. 


But all the reasons for a 'glass shell get shot down as you start looking harder & harder at the specifics of it all.  Even the KR show abandoned their 'glass Firebird shell and went back to a production car after a few frustrating jumps with the dune-buggy deal.


If you want the car to weigh the same 4000 pounds either way (which it does need to weigh, regardless of what the skin is made out of), and you've rigged the overhangs of the body not to get totally ruined from every landing  .  .  .  now all the benefits of a 'glass shell are gone.  You're just left with a less safe item than a steel-bodied car. 

   


As for the tube chassis   .  .  .  I assume it would be a fully hand-fabbed tube chassis either way.  Basically like a mid-1970s Chrysler NASCAR tube chassis. Taking the steel street-car's flooring & inner walls & skin, and hanging it onto a rectangular tube copy of the stock subframes & rocker boxes. 

[Mike DC]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGgzdPdgXho&feature=related

   
      Once again, making a vehicle survive a jump isn't all that groundbreaking. 

      It's just never been done in something that's shaped like a stock Dodge Charger.

[Dave22443]

Maybe Ds440 can photoshop that picture with a General Lee 

[Death1970Proof]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

[Mike DC]

 
Robby Gordon, goofing off in front of the crowd in his racing truck at the Glamis sand dunes.  Not a photochop.  Did not break the truck.

[Dave22443]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

[superduperbee]

If my 77 Daytona doesn't sell I will jump it. Anyone want to donate a rollcage and provide transport for some good advertising?

[mustanghater]

Yankee lake is like 5 mins from my house. They use the same car every year and they don't do that big of jumps. You can see in the picture how banged up and bondoed up the car is. Its a local junkyard that fixes it. It has no grill and no tail lights and its powered by a 350. The passenger side is basically the sheet metel you see on a E-modified dirt race car. it lost most of its charger parts years ago so there is nothing to worry about.

[Ghoste]

I guess my big objection is that real Charger loss or not, it still encourages idiots that this is an acceptable thing to do to old cars.  Somehow it just doesn't sit right with me. 

[hemihead]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

[Mike DC]

       

I'm not gonna go all the way to calling old Chargers "common," but these cars are still out there.  Everybody "can't find one anywhere" because they're usually not willing to pay the going rate.  Be ready to pay the going rate, and you can usually find half a dozen Chargers for sale in any given week of the year.  Every year.


And the going rate is not even all that high for a 40yo classic item.  You can still buy a nice muscle-era Mustang/Camaro/Challenger with a decent V8 for no more money than a brand-new modern version of the same car will cost.  That's not exactly a huge price for something that is supposed to be valued because it's so classic & rare.

 

[69charger2002]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

i'm assuming you are meaning all 66-74's in that figure.. there were not much more than 200,000 68-70 chargers ever built.. so i don't think there are even close to 100,000 68-70 charger still in existence.. in fact i'd bet a lot of money on it
trav

[moparstuart]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

i'm assuming you are meaning all 66-74's in that figure.. there were not much more than 200,000 68-70 chargers ever built.. so i don't think there are even close to 100,000 68-70 charger still in existence.. in fact i'd bet a lot of money on it
trav

I thought charger land had more of them than that alone  

[Dave22443]

Nah, he just owns all the Chargers that we don't 

[Death1970Proof]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

There's no way there is 200k of them left....I assume there's more chargers than mustangs right??? 

[jessejames]

I have finally found people that are just like me!!! It disturbs me a great deal that they wreck these cars. I tried buying one on ebay last year that they were going to jump and they said it would be sold after the jump. I tried everything in my power to convince the guy, but wouldn't listen. It was an R/T too!!!

Keep up the good work guys!!

[Ghoste]

Oh, we had a lot of scathing comments about that incident back at the time.

[Dave22443]