Looks like we're gonna loose another '69

[69bronzeT5]

Click the link and go down near the bottom of the page and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about

http://www.trucknight.com/

[police1]

what a bunch  ::)of jackoff's....

[TruckDriver]

If the car is a HALPG car or in the same condition, no loss then.

[Dave22443]

I disagree.  With all of the available sheet metal finally coming out, even a HALPG car suddenly becomes a viable project for someone.

[73chgrSE]

Well last year's jump car didn't look to messed up. At least they landed in some soft dirt.

[Chris G.]

There's at least 15 on ebay right now. If you want to control their destiny, buy them all. If not, can you really complain? 

[69chargerboy]

I live around an hour away from where this is happening. I'll stand outside the gate and hold a picket sign displaying "STOP DESTROYING DODGE CHARGERS!" 

[charger01]

I realize these cars are rough.  Very rough, but even with that being said.  I have a cuda on ebay right now.  I consider it trash, it needs just about everything, but I have  a few people really interested in it to restore.  I guess if you can do the work yourself, it's a starting point.  One mans junk is another mans treasure.  Iam beginning to think that none of these cars are junk with all the repro metal coming out.

[TruckDriver]

I live around an hour away from where this is happening. I'll stand outside the gate and hold a picket sign displaying "STOP DESTROYING DODGE CHARGERS!" 

Of course you need pics to prove it

[69bronzeT5]

I live around an hour away from where this is happening. I'll stand outside the gate and hold a picket sign displaying "STOP DESTROYING DODGE CHARGERS!" 

[Magnumcharger]

Another dumb ass, out to prove his stupidity....

[superduperbee]

This one had so much bondo, the taillights were falling out as it left the ramp. They rebuild it after each jump.  Ray

[FastbackJon]

What I don't understand is the absurdity that people would want to watch the car get destroyed. Wanting to watch the jump is one thing, I think it would be cool to see the jump, but not if the Charger gets destroyed. In the TV show the duke boys jumped the Charger and continued to drive it around. Obviously "movie magic" but still, you didn't see them land it land face down in a pile of wreckage.

[rav440]

. In the TV show the duke boys jumped the Charger and continued to drive it around. Obviously "movie magic" but still, you didn't see them land it land face down in a pile of wreckage.

maybe not a pile of wreckage , but from what i remeber all most every jump on that show the the front bumper tried like hell to meet the windshield 

[Magnumcharger]

I still don't get it....
I used to watch DOH almost religiously when I was a kid, never liked the jumps even back then. I did like the slides though. A lot less destructive. I guess I had the restorer bug even back then!
Of course, I had a Barracuda at the time, and would have KILLED for a '69 Charger!!

[Dave22443]

You know, the damage would be much less severe if they just used a catch ramp.   

I don't care what anybody says about what condition a car is in.  If its sound enough that a stunt man feels safe hitting a ramp with it at high speed, then its solid enough to restore.  These cars were unit-bodies.  If there were that much rust in them as some claim, they would collapse the instant they hit the ramp, if not before.

No 2nd Gen Charger is "worthless"   

[Red Ram]

One day the Charger will win and these people will have to re-evaluate their decisions...probably with the help of an attorney.

[superduperbee]

You know, the damage would be much less severe if they just used a catch ramp.   

I don't care what anybody says about what condition a car is in.  If its sound enough that a stunt man feels safe hitting a ramp with it at high speed, then its solid enough to restore.  These cars were unit-bodies.  If there were that much rust in them as some claim, they would collapse the instant they hit the ramp, if not before.

No 2nd Gen Charger is "worthless"   

Actually the car is heavily braced, full cage, frame, skid plate etc., or yes it would collapse when it hit the ramp.

[mikesbbody]

[No 2nd Gen Charger is "worthless"   

agreed! even if it was never going to be roadworthy, what a waste and a sad end for a charger. bunch of losers 

[police1]

looser uh huh....

[jaak]

I hate to see old cars destroyed for entertainment, but like I've said this before... My take is, as long as mine is sitting in the garage....who cares??? as long as they don't  jump mine, I ain't gonna lose no sleep.

Jason

[TruckDriver]

I know there was some complaints about it, but I don't recall as much as when they filmed "Death Proof" as destroyed 10 '69 Chargers, and 10 '70 Challengers that supposedly were all solid restorable cars from Texas. That pissed me off. But I remember getting flack about it when I spoke my mind. These guys are jumping a bondo bucket that missed its burial date, and it's a big major deal?, I don't get it

[Mike DC]

     
In my opinion, the GL that was jumped at this festival last year was NOT even solid enough to be a safe jumper.  That was an individual Dukes fan doing that with his old parts-car Charger shell after he finished his good car's resto. 


The TV crew (Dukesfest) is thinking hard about switching to a ramp-to-ramp deal.  They're getting sick and tired of trying to put together another Charger every year. 

   

[69bronzeT5]

as destroyed 10 '69 Chargers, and 10 '70 Challengers that supposedly were all solid restorable cars from Texas.

Thats exactly why I refuse to watch that movie..that and it seems really stupid.

[mikesbbody]

as destroyed 10 '69 Chargers, and 10 '70 Challengers that supposedly were all solid restorable cars from Texas.

Thats exactly why I refuse to watch that movie..that and it seems really stupid.

well i agree with you 100%! i did (finally) get to see the movie but trust me, i didnt pay to see it if you know what i mean  and what a bunch of crap! seriously cody, that was the worst movie i have ever seen! that is why i didnt remember if i posted about all the chargers and challengers they wrecked but that is another stupid waste imo.

[Dave22443]

Trust me, I was plenty upset about Deathproof.  It was a pathetic waste of time, money and classic cars. 

[superduperbee]

Mabey Dynacorn will start re-popping Chargers too. They already do Camaros, Mustangs and Cudas. This will be more economically feasible than spending 50-60 grand to restore a 318 car someone drug out of a cow pasture, that's mabey worth 20-25 grand when finished? In the meantime, anyone need a driver? LOL  Ray

[Mike DC]

   
I don't like seeing Chargers get smashed either, but people need to keep it in perspective.  These cars are really pretty toasted. 

I'm not saying the jump cars are worthless.  But the usable pieces on each one adds up to a very small percentage of a whole Dodge Charger anymore.


And with AMD's new metal, they'll be reproducing 3/4 of all the pieces that make a Charger different from the other B-bodies of the era.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't care what anybody says about what condition a car is in.  If its sound enough that a stunt man feels safe hitting a ramp with it at high speed, then its solid enough to restore.  These cars were unit-bodies.  If there were that much rust in them as some claim, they would collapse the instant they hit the ramp, if not before.

This is what I'm talking about.  You don't get it.  The current jump cars have become a lot more hand-built than people think.  Several of these cars WERE too structurally-unsound to fly when the crew got them. 

Just look at the 2005 Dukesfest GL jump.  The car nosedived into a front flip because the trunk ballast tore through the rusty rear frame of the car when it hit the ramp.  (And that car wasn't even the rustiest one they've jumped lately, either.)



Even the better cars have had compromised floorpans & rockers.  Hand-fabbed floorpan patches & steel plating on weak points in the chassis is pretty common by the time they're built.  Subframe connectors weren't needed for the old TV series jump cars, but SC's have become pretty common on the recent cars just because the rocker panels are so rusty.
 

[Death1970Proof]

I know there was some complaints about it, but I don't recall as much as when they filmed "Death Proof" as destroyed 10 '69 Chargers, and 10 '70 Challengers that supposedly were all solid restorable cars from Texas. That pissed me off. But I remember getting flack about it when I spoke my mind. These guys are jumping a bondo bucket that missed its burial date, and it's a big major deal?, I don't get it

Oooohhh boy I was just waiting on this comment to come up..... Ya know not every '69 charger in that film was destroyed. Tarantino saved one of the really nice ones and you can see it on the version of grindhouse they are showing on stars this month. That '69 is my dream charger and thats what Im building. This film that everybody says is so horrible made me dedicate to going out of my way and finding a charger to bring back to life, and yes mine is in horrible condition. I dont like the destruction on any mopar muscle car but from destruction can come inspiration like mine. Nevermind that dukes of hazzard destroyed 320+ chargers- but when less than 10 get destroyed people go all to #&*!

[Death1970Proof]

You know, the damage would be much less severe if they just used a catch ramp.   

I don't care what anybody says about what condition a car is in.  If its sound enough that a stunt man feels safe hitting a ramp with it at high speed, then its solid enough to restore.  These cars were unit-bodies.  If there were that much rust in them as some claim, they would collapse the instant they hit the ramp, if not before.

No 2nd Gen Charger is "worthless"   

Actually the car is heavily braced, full cage, frame, skid plate etc., or yes it would collapse when it hit the ramp.

Of all things they are jumping a 4 speed car!!!! 

[69bronzeT5]

The Dukes Of Hazzard (TV SHOW) destroyed those cars back when there was lots! Now the number of '69s are decreasing and there are way less left and now movies are destroying them. Theres a difference.

[JimShine]

[JMF]

I don't understand it either, you never saw the General Lee in the show land badly like this so what exactly are they trying to replicate, i'd rather watch a show with a Charger doing power slides and burnouts etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrNhRda8js&feature=related

[Death1970Proof]

I don't understand it either, you never saw the General Lee in the show land badly like this so what exactly are they trying to replicate, i'd rather watch a show with a Charger doing power slides and burnouts etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrNhRda8js&feature=related

Hmmm good thing they dont allow comments for that video......

[JMF]

The music in this one annoys me, they make out they are doing something groundbreaking, I notice there are some of the "Usual Suspects" there too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15kOiYmEsfA

[superduperbee]

I don't understand it either, you never saw the General Lee in the show land badly like this so what exactly are they trying to replicate, i'd rather watch a show with a Charger doing power slides and burnouts etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrNhRda8js&feature=related


Bad jumps were edited out of the TV show. We didn't get to see cars flipping or breaking apart. Pay close attention to the landing and see how the car is miraculously straight in the next shot. These bad landings [Dukes Fest etc.] are from not enough weight in the trunk, parts failure, or driver error.

[TruckDriver]

I don't understand it either, you never saw the General Lee in the show land badly like this so what exactly are they trying to replicate, i'd rather watch a show with a Charger doing power slides and burnouts etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrNhRda8js&feature=related

Hmmm good thing they dont allow comments for that video......

That car if I remember right was the only 4spd car used on the original series that was bought off ebay so they could destroy it. THAT  was a good case of stupidity right there.

[JimShine]

That 4 speed car was never on the series. It was a General Lee Enterprises car. They were an outfit that was licensed by Warner Bothers to exhibit General lee's at events. The cars were owned and built by people not associated with the show.

[Mike DC]

The music in this one annoys me, they make out they are doing something groundbreaking, I notice there are some of the "Usual Suspects" there too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15kOiYmEsfA

One notorious guy in there has lost a bunch of friends since then, but still, you gotta look at that video clip in the context of 2003 (when it was done).


2003 was a TOTALLY different world for a "Dukes of Hazzard" fan.  There had never been a live GL jump before (and certainly nobody thought there would ever be another one after that), the TV cast had announced no more reunion specials, no big-screen DOH movie was in the works or even rumored yet, no "Dukesfest" had ever amassed more than a couple thousand people, etc.   

The whole franchise looked 100% dead in 2003.  That jump event in Covington was something pulled together by a few very dedicated fans to be a nice send-off.   

 

[TruckDriver]

That 4 speed car was never on the series. It was a General Lee Enterprises car. They were an outfit that was licensed by Warner Bothers to exhibit General lee's at events. The cars were owned and built by people not associated with the show.

Oh, okay. I'm no expert on them. Either way, it was still stupid to wreck it.

[Mike DC]

 
Definitely a stupid move to wreck that car.  Just downright ugly by any stretch. 

The body was a bondo bucket like most of the others, but nothing excuses stuffing a numbers-matching Charger of that magnitude.  Even the stunt crew was trying pretty hard to talk the owner out of using that particular car for the jump. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If it makes you feel any better, that whole operation went south pretty quickly after that.

   

[Joshua]

I hate to see old cars destroyed for entertainment, but like I've said this before... My take is, as long as mine is sitting in the garage....who cares??? as long as they don't  jump mine, I ain't gonna lose no sleep.

Jason

Yeah man....I don't like seeing it either, but it's THEIR car to do as THEY please.....not mine.

I jump mine when no ones lookin'!   

[Mike DC]

   
I've said it lots of times before --  I'd love to build my jump-proof GL idea.


All I need is for somebody to gimmie a huge pile of money and let me use their shop for a few months. 

   

[superduperbee]

Here's the original thread on this jump.

[Charger_Fan]

I want a calendar.

[CNH 320]

   
I've said it lots of times before --  I'd love to build my jump-proof GL idea.


All I need is for somebody to gimmie a huge pile of money and let me use their shop for a few months. 

   

What's your plan Mike,.. tell us,..

[hemihead]

I see no big deal . Whether it is DOH, Fast and Furious, or Deathproof or any other movie you care to think about . They own the cars and are free to do as they please with them . Besides , there are so many 2nd Gen Chargers out there anymore they remind me of Camaros in the 80's . Everyone has one and you seen one , you seen them all . Just remember the more they wreck the more yours is worth .

[Dave22443]

Hemihead,

  I don't know what things are like up there in PA, but the only plentiful Chargers down here in VA are the new one's.  2nd Gens are extreamly rare around here. I probably average seeing another 2nd Gen once a year if I'm lucky.  Its not any better for the 1st and 3rd Gen's either.  It all depends on your perspective.

[hemihead]

Go to any car show and tell me how many you see ? No offense to anyone but I used to stop and check them out 3 years ago but now I just yawn and walk by . Especially when you have Mr. GM that bought one because it was a " good investment " or it's the " in " thing to own one .
They are becoming like Camaros or Mustangs . Pretty soon you will just order the parts from a catalog and build one from it . Big deal .

[Dave22443]

If I go to a big show around here (over 300 cars), I might see exactly one... maybe.  If mine is there, then there might be two.  The most I have ever seen at one show (with mine included) was three.

Now Camaro's, thats another story.  I could cover an entire show, jumping from Camaro hood, to Camaro hood and never touch the ground. 

[JimShine]

Its all about location. There are 4 1969 Chargers on my street. But doesn't mean that is typical.

[Mike DC]

   

I've said it lots of times before --  I'd love to build my jump-proof GL idea.

All I need is for somebody to gimmie a huge pile of money and let me use their shop for a few months.

   

What's your plan Mike,.. tell us,.. drool5 2thumbs

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Oh yeah, I've been thinking about the idea for years.  And talked about it plenty of times with other fans at the DOH events.  I think it's totally do-able, but it would take cubic money & resources.  And I can't point to anything existing that is much like it to guarantee that it works.  So the idea hasn't ever gone anywhere in several years.



I don't expect something to go 200 feet through the air and fall 3 stories down without a scratch, but I'm pretty sure it would do moderate-height jumps without any unsolvable problems. 

There's nothing really unprecedented about making a 4500-pound vehicle be able to land from 10-15 feet up in the air.  The desert racer truck guys have been doing it for years.    The really complicated part is making it look like a stock '69 Dodge Charger.  And you've also gotta keep enough of the stock unibody panels around the outside to keep it crashworthy in a mishap.  (No fiberglass Charger shells. Several reasons for that.) 

I'd make something sorta like a 1970s NASCAR Charger.  It would have some major "hinge" action in the outer bodywork overhangs, and with the whole suspension custom built out of desert-racer truck parts.    It's a hell of a lot more complicated that this, but you get the basic idea.  Picture a hand-built car where the loadbearing parts have roughly the same dimensions as a stock Charger, but everything is built three times as beefy. 


All the obvious practical problems that are still popping up in your mind right about now . . . trust me, I've thought about them. 


 

[NMike]

the only problem i see with thar, is most desert racing trucks have shocks that are 3-4 feet long. they also need about 30 inches of suspension travel, and 37 inch tires. i think that a charger would need more than the daytona fender scoops to hide all that.

[Mike DC]

he only problem i see with that, is most desert racing trucks have shocks that are 3-4 feet long. they also need about 30 inches of suspension travel, and 37 inch tires. i think that a charger would need more than the daytona fender scoops to hide all that. 2thumbs

Yep.  Thought of it. 




Tires:

Looking at a race truck with a 37-inch tire on a 16" rim . . . versus a GL with a 27" tire on a 15" rim . . . The difference between the amount of sidewall height on the lower half of the wheel is not THAT much.  It's an issue, but it's not insurmountable IMO.  Strong-ass rims + higher tire inflations + some type of stiff inner tube, etc.

(And what if the problem can't be overcome?  So we're still sacrificing a set of cheap steel rims & old tires on each jump.  Big deal.)



Wheel travel:

It doesn't matter how much wheel travel a vehicle has, but rather how much of that travel is doing any real absorbing.

On a desert race truck, they have 2-3 feet of wheel travel.  But the first 2/3rds of that upward wheel travel is valved moderately soft, so that the truck takes smaller bumps better and doesn't beat the drivers senseless over the course of the race.  On a big jump, it's often only about the last 10-15 inches of the wheel travel that really starts to slow down the truck body's rate of fall.   


But a dedicated jumper GL? 

It doesn't need to absorb varying sized-jumps on a given run, doesn't need to corner or ride well, the impact itself doesn't even really need to be very comfortable at all compared to a desert truck . . . it just needs to go in a straight line, get up the ramp & fly, and then fall out of the air without completely demolishing man or machine.


Besides, the bumpstops (apart from the shock absorbers & springs entirely) that modern desert racing trucks run are in a league of their own.  They run 6-inch-telescoping steel canisters about the size of a beer bottle.  They're nitrogen-gas pressurized and adjustable.  They basically work like a set of truck airbag springs on some serious 'roids.   

[Dave22443]

Didn't the show Knight Rider switch to a full size, roto-molded, plastic mock-up for their car jumps in the later seasons?  Oh wait, I think the Duke's already tried that only on a smaller scale 

But actually, I think this idea could work, especially if you consider using a catch ramp.  But to me, the only way to make it really work is to put a fiberglass charger body on a modified desert racing truck (or buggy).  To do this, its going to have to be full tube chassis all the way.

[Mike DC]

But to me, the only way to make it really work is to put a fiberglass charger body on a modified desert racing truck (or buggy).  To do this, its going to have to be full tube chassis all the way.

Everybody who shoots the bull with me about this idea wants to do a 'glass shell.  It sounds like it would make a lot more sense at first. 


But all the reasons for a 'glass shell get shot down as you start looking harder & harder at the specifics of it all.  Even the KR show abandoned their 'glass Firebird shell and went back to a production car after a few frustrating jumps with the dune-buggy deal.


If you want the car to weigh the same 4000 pounds either way (which it does need to weigh, regardless of what the skin is made out of), and you've rigged the overhangs of the body not to get totally ruined from every landing  .  .  .  now all the benefits of a 'glass shell are gone.  You're just left with a less safe item than a steel-bodied car. 

   


As for the tube chassis   .  .  .  I assume it would be a fully hand-fabbed tube chassis either way.  Basically like a mid-1970s Chrysler NASCAR tube chassis. Taking the steel street-car's flooring & inner walls & skin, and hanging it onto a rectangular tube copy of the stock subframes & rocker boxes. 

[Mike DC]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGgzdPdgXho&feature=related

   
      Once again, making a vehicle survive a jump isn't all that groundbreaking. 

      It's just never been done in something that's shaped like a stock Dodge Charger.

[Dave22443]

Maybe Ds440 can photoshop that picture with a General Lee 

[Death1970Proof]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

[Mike DC]

 
Robby Gordon, goofing off in front of the crowd in his racing truck at the Glamis sand dunes.  Not a photochop.  Did not break the truck.

[Dave22443]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

[superduperbee]

If my 77 Daytona doesn't sell I will jump it. Anyone want to donate a rollcage and provide transport for some good advertising?

[mustanghater]

Yankee lake is like 5 mins from my house. They use the same car every year and they don't do that big of jumps. You can see in the picture how banged up and bondoed up the car is. Its a local junkyard that fixes it. It has no grill and no tail lights and its powered by a 350. The passenger side is basically the sheet metel you see on a E-modified dirt race car. it lost most of its charger parts years ago so there is nothing to worry about.

[Ghoste]

I guess my big objection is that real Charger loss or not, it still encourages idiots that this is an acceptable thing to do to old cars.  Somehow it just doesn't sit right with me. 

[hemihead]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

[Mike DC]

       

I'm not gonna go all the way to calling old Chargers "common," but these cars are still out there.  Everybody "can't find one anywhere" because they're usually not willing to pay the going rate.  Be ready to pay the going rate, and you can usually find half a dozen Chargers for sale in any given week of the year.  Every year.


And the going rate is not even all that high for a 40yo classic item.  You can still buy a nice muscle-era Mustang/Camaro/Challenger with a decent V8 for no more money than a brand-new modern version of the same car will cost.  That's not exactly a huge price for something that is supposed to be valued because it's so classic & rare.

 

[69charger2002]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

i'm assuming you are meaning all 66-74's in that figure.. there were not much more than 200,000 68-70 chargers ever built.. so i don't think there are even close to 100,000 68-70 charger still in existence.. in fact i'd bet a lot of money on it
trav

[moparstuart]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

i'm assuming you are meaning all 66-74's in that figure.. there were not much more than 200,000 68-70 chargers ever built.. so i don't think there are even close to 100,000 68-70 charger still in existence.. in fact i'd bet a lot of money on it
trav

I thought charger land had more of them than that alone  

[Dave22443]

Nah, he just owns all the Chargers that we don't 

[Death1970Proof]

Since when are 2nd gen chargers plentiful? I almost never see one around here. If they were that common do you think people would gawk as hard as they do over my '70??? I doubt it....

2nd Gens are NOT that plentiful in most area's. Why else would they cost so much?

Because everyone wants one of the 150,000 - 200,000 that are left .

There's no way there is 200k of them left....I assume there's more chargers than mustangs right??? 

[jessejames]

I have finally found people that are just like me!!! It disturbs me a great deal that they wreck these cars. I tried buying one on ebay last year that they were going to jump and they said it would be sold after the jump. I tried everything in my power to convince the guy, but wouldn't listen. It was an R/T too!!!

Keep up the good work guys!!

[Ghoste]

Oh, we had a lot of scathing comments about that incident back at the time.

[Dave22443]